Woah! Looking smoking sexy, Joker!

[Shmooply]

Alright, let's try this matchup again now since both of them got ridiculous upgrades, in addition to Joker having a new game that's a hack 'n' slash.

DMC 4 DANTE

VERSUS

MID-LATE GAME JOKER

TRICKSTER STYLE -

WILDCARD TRICKSTER -

LET'S DANCE, BOYS! -

 

[Stillwinston]

Joker thinks

 

[Shmooply]

Joker thinks

This is mid-to-late game Joker, who is low 2-C. Also, DMC4 Dante resists fate hax that affects type 4 acausals. Unless in this key Joker has some sort of trick up his sleeve that I'm forgetting.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This is mid-to-late game Joker, who is low 2-C. Also, DMC4 Dante resists fate hax that affects type 4 acausals. Unless in this key Joker has some sort of trick up his sleeve that I'm forgetting.

Joker’s conceptual hax works on all his keys. And as far as I know, Dante has no resistance to having his information attacked as well.

Dante’s fate manipulation resistance also isn’t going to mean much, considering Joker scales to a much higher potency in all keys.

Joker>P2 Cast Resist>Nyarlothotep>Cognition Resist>Urd>Norn=>Clotho=Causality/Fate>Gods=Type 4 Acasuality.

As for his AP, since this is Mid-Late Game Joker:

True Shido/Samael > Shido/Samael > Human Sacrifices = Goro Akechi >> Late-Game PT (Heist7) > Oberon > Atavaka > Hanuman > Kali >> King Frost >>> Baphomet > Sae/Leviathan > Parvati = Kurama Tengu = Titania > Cerberus > Heist6 PT > Skadi = Ganesha > Norn > Jatayu > Execurobo MDL-ED >> Rangda > Mid-Game PT (Heist5) >>> Okumura/Mammon > Girimekhala > Kumbhanda >> Cognitive Wakaba > Mithras >> Heist4 PT = Belphegor > Thoth = Kaiwan >> Anubis > Kaneshiro/Bael >>> Heist3 PT > Take-Minakata >>>> Madarame/Azazel > Sui-Ki = Rakshasa > Kamoshida/Asmodeus > Heist2 PT > Orthrus = Shiki-Ouji > Heist1 PT = Nue > Eligor >> Archangel >>>>> Berith = Angel >> Succubus > Silky = Kelpie > Cait Sith = Incubus > Bicorn > Agathion = Mandrake > Pixie = Jack-o-Lantern (Baseline) = Low 2-C.

Not to mention, Joker’s mindhax scales to Low 1-C, being above to affect other Shadows & Personas, the latter of which can protect you from the Collective Unconscious, a 5-D realm that possesses infinite minds & information, which attacks your mind, soul, information, and concept, which can simply spawn on you without any real opportunity to dodge.

Also, speed isn’t equalized. Any way you slice this, Joker kinda wipes the floor with everyone here (even Bayonetta). Stomp.

 

[Shmooply]

i think me forgetting to equalize speed is the least of dantes worries here

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, Joker is far beyond anything Dante can throw at him. Quite ironic, how he lost only several years ago. Welp, things have changed.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

This is a stomp. It should be closed.

that's why i summonig dante composite vs joker Yeah

 

[Schnee_One]

Damn, I was gonna throw Robin Hood at Vergil

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Damn, I was gonna throw Robin Hood at Vergil

Goro?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Would changing It to SMT dante change anything here? If both were at their peak.

 

[Stillwinston]

I mean isn't SMT profiles still a mess?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ah, I thought they were cleaned up. Nvm then.

 

[Schnee_One]

Goro?

Yes

 

[Stillwinston]

I mean SMT Dante might not be getting any changes but idk

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yes

Yeah, he gets Hama-deathhaxxed.

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah, he gets Hama-deathhaxxed.

But he resists both?

 

[Stillwinston]

Info and Concept stuff tacked onto it

 

[Shmooply]

damnit

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So AP should be around the same level while Ren can hax his ass all day around and basically resist everything bar sealing/BFR/deconstruction and Yamato?

What can Dante do here besides dying? With Ren fate manip in place I doubt Dante will start with Yamato and that is if the countless thought based hax don't end him immediately

 

[Stillwinston]

He dies harder than he does in Hell and Hell mode

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

So AP should be around the same level while Ren can hax his ass all day around and basically resist everything bar sealing/BFR/deconstruction and Yamato?

What can Dante do here besides dying? With Ren fate manip in place I doubt Dante will start with Yamato and that is if the countless thought based hax don't end him immediately

What’s his AP chain? Also, he resists all of those abilities.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

What’s his AP chain?

I'm too lazy to write it :v but last I checked it went something like this

Sin DT Dante / Vergil > Dante/vergil 5 > Fruit Urizen > Nero DT > Nero > tired vergil and dante > Urizen post prologue > Urizen Prologue > Dante DT + Sparda prologue > Dante DT prologue > Dante prologue > 5 years gap > DMC 4 > atleast 5 years gap > DMC 2 Majin form > DT Dante + hearts > Base Vol 2 Dante >= Chen + BH > Void Mundus / Prime Sparda > Mundus / Despair = Sparda DT Dante > Anime DT Dante > Abigail / Base Anime Dante > Argo

It's worth nothing that the gaps between some of those are humungus, for example the urizen who first stomped dante is completely dwarfed in power by the one who has been pumped by blood the whole month and probably the same gap exist with him when he eats the fruit if not even bigger. The gap between dmc 2 dante/Chen and void mundus is quite noticeable too. I'm just not bothering to add more ">" since this is already a lost battle

Also, he resists all of those abilities.

They aren't in his profile

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Sin DT Dante / Vergil > Dante/vergil 5 > Fruit Urizen > Nero DT > Nero > tired vergil and dante > Urizen post prologue > Urizen Prologue > Dante DT + Sparda prologue > Dante DT prologue > Dante prologue > 5 years gap > DMC 4 > atleast 5 years gap > DMC 2 Majin form > DT Dante + hearts > Base Vol 2 Dante >= Chen + BH > Void Mundus / Prime Sparda > Mundus / Despair = Sparda DT Dante > Anime DT Dante > Abigail / Base Anime Dante > Argo

Ren is still far higher. The multiple “>”’s are not for show, and are actually genuine indicators of how superior they are. To give an example, Elizabeth was possessed and overpowered by her Persona, Zeus, despite canonically being one level below Zeus. Ren can one-shot people are massively above people who can one-shot people massively above casual universal creation.

They aren't in his profile

They are, he resists Cognition, which has Sealing, BFR, and Matter Manipulation/Deconstruction.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Ren can one-shot people are massively above people who can one-shot people massively above casual universal creation.

Sitting in the qliphot made Urizen go from this to destroying a much more stronger version of this who is the same guy that casually one shots demons who can casually one shot other demons that perform the base feat by existing with a large part of their powers still sealed.

Now, the boost in power Urizen got was in a matter of hours to 1 day, he stood there getting more and more power for a whole month and then ate a fruit whose power granting is supposed to be beyond that of the tree itself and then had to regain the last part of his power to match Dante as an equal.

So yeah, im confident that if Dante doesn't go above him then they are equals

They are, he resists Cognition, which has Sealing, BFR, and Matter Manipulation/Deconstruction

I read that as precognition, my bad there

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Sitting in the qliphot made Urizen go from this to destroying a much more stronger version of this who is the same guy that casually one shots demons who can casually one shot other demons that perform the base feat by existing with a large part of their powers still sealed.

Now, the boost in power Urizen got was in a matter of hours to 1 day, he stood there getting more and more power for a whole month and then ate a fruit whose power granting is supposed to be beyond that of the tree itself and then had to regain the last part of his power to match Dante as an equal.

So yeah, im confident that if Dante doesn't go above him then they are equals

Eh, I still disagree, but Dante already lost. Even so, Debilitate + Strength Bind + Tetrakarn + Null/Drain/Resist/Reflect/Evade Phys would’ve dealt with his AP.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Dante resist stats reduction but I guess that one is Low 1-C too? Because AFAIK no one has resistance to debilitate to say that it is above Dante's resistance

what's strenght bind btw? I can't find it in the profile

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Dante resist stats reduction but I guess that one is Low 1-C too? Because AFAIK no one has resistance to debilitate to say that it is above Dante's resistance

what's strenght bind btw? I can't find it in the profile

Nah, but it hits your mind, body, soul, etc.

Strength Bind is power null.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He resist all then :v now if it goes beyond his resistance is another thing that I am not really interested to find out

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

He resist all then :v now if it goes beyond his resistance is another thing that I am not really interested to find out

It hits your mind, soul, information, and concept, he doesn’t resist it.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Since when Debilitate hits your info and concept tho?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Since when Debilitate hits your info and concept tho?

All Ailments do. Shadows are information & concepts.