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Wizard101 is a confusing and convoluted verse where all the lore and evidence is hidden behind 20 forums and a paywall.
Establishing the Basics
I'm going to be very blunt. This should never have been accepted and the verse should never have gone above 2-B, let alone as high into 2-A as it is.
https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Zenkaibattery1/Wizard101_Cosmology Before anything, I should note that this cosmology blog was listed as "official" evidence when the verse was upgraded to 2-A because it was put into a community post once. I'm going to spoil you right now and tell you that much of the supposed evidence for many of this series' feats come from unreliable and unofficial sources.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3687509
Here is the thread, by the way.
Bartleby's statement that there are countless worlds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZOeXjS9qzo&feature=youtu.be&t=2m9s
When I began this blog I did not expect Bartleby's voice to sound like that. So,
"There are countless worlds on the spiral. Wizard City is just the first." - Bartleby
Obviously, this is a pretty solid statement on its own. However, it also falls apart when considering that "Worlds" in Wizard101 doesn't refer to universes, but rather to planets. One of these "Worlds" is just a city, as Bartleby himself even states. Now, the cosmology blog states that each world is its own timeline, but that's entirely unsourced and only really helps 2-B exist, which is fine.
Obviously, the Spiral refers to the Universe and has been stated as such before (I'm getting some serious Kingdom Hearts vibes from this and I do NOT like it), so that's fine. Once again, the problems lie in HOW high they are into 2-A.
Problems with the Reverie
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3782187 This thread came out around a month after Wizard101 was upgraded to 2-A, in a thread that didn't have nearly enough discussion to it.
"Now the Reverie is a gateway to the world of dreams. Each dream a mortal has is its own dimension which is the size of the universe.
How do we know dreams are the size of a universe? Well, when we enter Mellori's dream world where she is looking at a past version of herself, you can see galaxies in the background not too long after (Also, Mellori also implies this is a completley different world from the real world "you go back to the real world!")
With this, we know each dream is its own world the size of a universe, since there are galaxies in the background."
It has been well-established by this point that having galaxies doesn't make something a universe, nor do statements of being "An alternate reality". This would make Dream Worlds at best 3-B, as established by DarkDragonMedeus:
These statements are not enough to call them universes; they may support the ideas when backed up by examples above, but none of them individually or altogether may be enough.
To put it frankly, the threads established nothing to definitively call the dream worlds universes, and the only thing agreed on in the thread was over semantics about whether or not "Endless" could be considered enough evidence for 2-A or not.
https://imgur.com/a/hqp7qTt
"Here are some other dimensions in the game, each universal in size."
Nothing seems to state any of these dimensions being universal, and if it's for the same reasons as the Reverie, I already established why that doesn't apply.
https://imgur.com/a/hKFSkNk
Problems with The Five Boxes Event
Now, onto the timelines themselves. First we have to look at statements that confirm the existence of other worlds/dimensions
https://imgur.com/a/nl8QPYE
Firstly, when we are travelling back in time to find a world door a mysterious voice says "from another time, and another world."
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...0px-28Quest29_Forging_A_Legend_Dialogue_7.png
An Arcanum professor states "its construction shows techniques from multiple worlds. Even different dimensions"
Word of God also agrees that there are other timelines.
https://youtu.be/kza_x_JHr4Q?t=459
7:40 - 7:50: Prehaps the most important. Here, in this quest right before this statement, we travel back to the past to fix issues in Dragonspyre. The professor states "I have seen that timeline, in it, the Dragonspyre academy sweeps through the Spiral"
He is quite clearly referencing that past we just visited as a different timeline. In that timeline specifically, the Dragonspyre army has taken over the Spiral (The Universe). And obviously, in our timeline the universe is fine. This means, each past is its own timeline.
"This means, each past is its own timeline." is the part I most want your attention focused on, because this isn't true.
https://www.wizard101.com/game/five-boxes-event
Here's the official page for Wizard101's Five Boxes Event (The event where all of the above comes from). According to the page, "Someone, or something, is threatening to unravel much of what we know as true and fact ― by nudging certain events, twisting others, and threatening to destroy yet more, this force puts Wizard City and all worlds of the Spiral at risk!"
I don't think much more needs to be said about that here, but it helps disprove the last point to go over.
All of this amounts to one thing: Timelines exist. Yes, they do. However, the evidence to suggest an infinite number is... interesting, let's just say.
Problems with the Sands of Time
https://imgur.com/a/vIH8hrp
Here, it is stated each grain of sand is a moment in the Spiral's history. History, as per definition, refers to the past. Meaning, each grain is its own past.
https://imgur.com/a/IHsRlM4
These sands, according to Grandmother Raven, the wisest character in the game as well as the narrator, states that the sands of time are endless.
How exactly does one make this jump? I also find it very interesting that this thread left out This blog, which according to the "Level of 2-A" blog is incredibly important.
What this blog states is that "Each grain is a moment in the Spiral's past, present, or future, and it falls in according with how time should flow". That's entirely different from what was stated in the thread, and it's an incredibly important distinction.
Personally, I find it very misleading to cherry-pick a single part of the quote, but I will explain further rather than making random accusations. Obviously it was stated that there are endless grains of sand, but that's contradicted by what we're actually shown. One can certainly claim gameplay-story segregation, but that doesn't help things.
"It falls in according with how time will flow" indicates not that each grain of sand is its own separate timeline, but rather that each grain is a tiny part of a singular timeline, something that makes far more sense considering that Grandfather Spider was going to reverse time by reversing the flow of sands.
"as shown and stated by Grandmother Raven, the narrator of the game; each time we return to the Sands of Time, we are told there is a greater extent of endless sands present, bringing forth an endless cycle of creations of infinite timelines."
Obviously, what's above proves this to be untrue. A greater extent of sands present obviously thus refers to the singular timeline that the player themself is in extending, AKA... you know... how Time works.
Summary
Wizard101 is not "2-A * 2-A * 2-A lol". That's a ridiculous fabrication based off of misleading evidence, twisting words, and cherry-picking quotes to suit the idea of the upgrade. They aren't that far above baseline, if they're even 2-A at all, as that entire argument was only based off of the semantics of one word. Final proposal:
All god tiers of Wizard 101 should be downgraded from "At least 2-A" to "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A", or at the absolute best, simply "2-A". This would affect the Range, Attack Potency, Durability, and Striking Strength
For attack potency, the justification would be "The spiral is stated to have an endless and possibly infinite number of worlds, each with its own timeline", or something similar. The exact specifics of what gets put on the pages isn't my job.
Discuss!
Agree: ZacharyGrossman273, Zaratthustra
Disagree:
Neutral:
Establishing the Basics
I'm going to be very blunt. This should never have been accepted and the verse should never have gone above 2-B, let alone as high into 2-A as it is.
https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Zenkaibattery1/Wizard101_Cosmology Before anything, I should note that this cosmology blog was listed as "official" evidence when the verse was upgraded to 2-A because it was put into a community post once. I'm going to spoil you right now and tell you that much of the supposed evidence for many of this series' feats come from unreliable and unofficial sources.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3687509
Here is the thread, by the way.
Bartleby's statement that there are countless worlds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZOeXjS9qzo&feature=youtu.be&t=2m9s
When I began this blog I did not expect Bartleby's voice to sound like that. So,
"There are countless worlds on the spiral. Wizard City is just the first." - Bartleby
Obviously, this is a pretty solid statement on its own. However, it also falls apart when considering that "Worlds" in Wizard101 doesn't refer to universes, but rather to planets. One of these "Worlds" is just a city, as Bartleby himself even states. Now, the cosmology blog states that each world is its own timeline, but that's entirely unsourced and only really helps 2-B exist, which is fine.
Obviously, the Spiral refers to the Universe and has been stated as such before (I'm getting some serious Kingdom Hearts vibes from this and I do NOT like it), so that's fine. Once again, the problems lie in HOW high they are into 2-A.
Problems with the Reverie
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3782187 This thread came out around a month after Wizard101 was upgraded to 2-A, in a thread that didn't have nearly enough discussion to it.
"Now the Reverie is a gateway to the world of dreams. Each dream a mortal has is its own dimension which is the size of the universe.
How do we know dreams are the size of a universe? Well, when we enter Mellori's dream world where she is looking at a past version of herself, you can see galaxies in the background not too long after (Also, Mellori also implies this is a completley different world from the real world "you go back to the real world!")
With this, we know each dream is its own world the size of a universe, since there are galaxies in the background."
It has been well-established by this point that having galaxies doesn't make something a universe, nor do statements of being "An alternate reality". This would make Dream Worlds at best 3-B, as established by DarkDragonMedeus:
These statements are not enough to call them universes; they may support the ideas when backed up by examples above, but none of them individually or altogether may be enough.
- Having a starry sky may qualify as being a 4-A sized pocket reality, but not enough to be a universe without more evidence.
- Having multiple galaxies within it should qualify as a 3-B sized pocket reality, but not enough to be a universe without more context or evidence.
- A realm having time that works somewhat differently is not enough to be considered a Universe as nonlinear time within a single universe exists. And the realm should still have a confirmed appropriate size to back it up.
- The Worlds being different bodies of space is not enough to consider them universes, as that does not quite prove they have different timelines. Especially if they are afterlives. Afterlives often are different bodies of space, but are generally condensed in the time timeline unless there's more proof otherwise.
- Being "Different Worlds, Realms, or Dimensions" requires more elaborate context and even "Dreams, Imaginations and Ideas becoming reality" is not enough to say the "Worlds" are entire universes. "Becoming Reality" often simply refers more to "Becoming a piece of reality" as opposed to each and every Dream becoming an "Entire Reality".
To put it frankly, the threads established nothing to definitively call the dream worlds universes, and the only thing agreed on in the thread was over semantics about whether or not "Endless" could be considered enough evidence for 2-A or not.
https://imgur.com/a/hqp7qTt
"Here are some other dimensions in the game, each universal in size."
Nothing seems to state any of these dimensions being universal, and if it's for the same reasons as the Reverie, I already established why that doesn't apply.
https://imgur.com/a/hKFSkNk
Problems with The Five Boxes Event
Now, onto the timelines themselves. First we have to look at statements that confirm the existence of other worlds/dimensions
https://imgur.com/a/nl8QPYE
Firstly, when we are travelling back in time to find a world door a mysterious voice says "from another time, and another world."
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...0px-28Quest29_Forging_A_Legend_Dialogue_7.png
An Arcanum professor states "its construction shows techniques from multiple worlds. Even different dimensions"
Word of God also agrees that there are other timelines.
https://youtu.be/kza_x_JHr4Q?t=459
7:40 - 7:50: Prehaps the most important. Here, in this quest right before this statement, we travel back to the past to fix issues in Dragonspyre. The professor states "I have seen that timeline, in it, the Dragonspyre academy sweeps through the Spiral"
He is quite clearly referencing that past we just visited as a different timeline. In that timeline specifically, the Dragonspyre army has taken over the Spiral (The Universe). And obviously, in our timeline the universe is fine. This means, each past is its own timeline.
"This means, each past is its own timeline." is the part I most want your attention focused on, because this isn't true.
https://www.wizard101.com/game/five-boxes-event
Here's the official page for Wizard101's Five Boxes Event (The event where all of the above comes from). According to the page, "Someone, or something, is threatening to unravel much of what we know as true and fact ― by nudging certain events, twisting others, and threatening to destroy yet more, this force puts Wizard City and all worlds of the Spiral at risk!"
I don't think much more needs to be said about that here, but it helps disprove the last point to go over.
All of this amounts to one thing: Timelines exist. Yes, they do. However, the evidence to suggest an infinite number is... interesting, let's just say.
Problems with the Sands of Time
https://imgur.com/a/vIH8hrp
Here, it is stated each grain of sand is a moment in the Spiral's history. History, as per definition, refers to the past. Meaning, each grain is its own past.
https://imgur.com/a/IHsRlM4
These sands, according to Grandmother Raven, the wisest character in the game as well as the narrator, states that the sands of time are endless.
How exactly does one make this jump? I also find it very interesting that this thread left out This blog, which according to the "Level of 2-A" blog is incredibly important.
What this blog states is that "Each grain is a moment in the Spiral's past, present, or future, and it falls in according with how time should flow". That's entirely different from what was stated in the thread, and it's an incredibly important distinction.
Personally, I find it very misleading to cherry-pick a single part of the quote, but I will explain further rather than making random accusations. Obviously it was stated that there are endless grains of sand, but that's contradicted by what we're actually shown. One can certainly claim gameplay-story segregation, but that doesn't help things.
"It falls in according with how time will flow" indicates not that each grain of sand is its own separate timeline, but rather that each grain is a tiny part of a singular timeline, something that makes far more sense considering that Grandfather Spider was going to reverse time by reversing the flow of sands.
"as shown and stated by Grandmother Raven, the narrator of the game; each time we return to the Sands of Time, we are told there is a greater extent of endless sands present, bringing forth an endless cycle of creations of infinite timelines."
Obviously, what's above proves this to be untrue. A greater extent of sands present obviously thus refers to the singular timeline that the player themself is in extending, AKA... you know... how Time works.
Summary
Wizard101 is not "2-A * 2-A * 2-A lol". That's a ridiculous fabrication based off of misleading evidence, twisting words, and cherry-picking quotes to suit the idea of the upgrade. They aren't that far above baseline, if they're even 2-A at all, as that entire argument was only based off of the semantics of one word. Final proposal:
All god tiers of Wizard 101 should be downgraded from "At least 2-A" to "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A", or at the absolute best, simply "2-A". This would affect the Range, Attack Potency, Durability, and Striking Strength
For attack potency, the justification would be "The spiral is stated to have an endless and possibly infinite number of worlds, each with its own timeline", or something similar. The exact specifics of what gets put on the pages isn't my job.
Discuss!
Agree: ZacharyGrossman273, Zaratthustra
Disagree:
Neutral: