Wizard101 6D

[Robo432343]

WHERE IS EVERYONE
BUMP

 

[Robo432343]

I don't know the verse at all so no

can you please ping staff members to evaluate this thread

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

They are neutral.

 

[Robo432343]

They are neutral.

???
some other staff members havent commented here yet

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Ben and I are wondering how the verse got attention again on here lol. TBH I really don't want to participate too much on the thread, but i'll go over what I remember briefly. I should note however, a lot of things are very outdated, and Ben and I have changed/reevaluated how we view some of the stuff, though that shouldn't affect this thread too much. (Also should Ultima's revision of the tiering system go through, the transdual stuff and The Nothing not being bound by dimensionality would potentially/might upgrade the verse to 1-A, so maybe it would be better to wait for that to finish?? idk. Wizard101 is also at the climax of its latest arc, so maybe another reason the thread should be on hold, though I doubt the climax would change stuff here.)

Anyway to the purpose of the thread: It was years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy but originally, yes, the whole thing about the spiral's infinite^infinite (+infinitely reflected through the reflection caves) multiverse being limited and an echo of an even greater existence was accepted as 5-D and as well as the cosmic trio existing beyond even that greater existence, viewing it as flattened and limited, creating it in the first place and can destroy it in an instant being 5-D. KingTempest is right in that this was not accepted as 6-D, but 5-D (uh... I never argued it to be 6-D in the first place so.... yeah). I do see the arguments for 6-D, but I am not going to agree or disagree, just say that originally it was only accepted at 5-D

The Creator's profile also should be deleted, he doesn't exist in the canon anymore. Raven, Spider and Bartleby are coequal in being the strongest when at their full power.

 

[KingTempest]

Thank you

 

[Robo432343]

Ben and I are wondering how the verse got attention again on here lol.

If you want an answer, i think it all started in this thread mentioning w101
i mean it is one of the strongest 2-A smurfs on the wiki

Top 10 Strongest Characters for Every Tier Continuation

The continuation of this previous thread here. Rules Characters only qualify for a tier if they are physically in that tier themselves. Tiers through amps that increases both Attack Potency and Durability also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology. Prep Time is only allowed if...

vsbattles.com

TBH I really don't want to participate too much on the thread, but i'll go over what I remember briefly. I should note however, a lot of things are very outdated, and Ben and I have changed/reevaluated how we view some of the stuff, though that shouldn't affect this thread too much. (Also should Ultima's revision of the tiering system go through, the transdual stuff and The Nothing not being bound by dimensionality would potentially/might upgrade the verse to 1-A, so maybe it would be better to wait for that to finish?? idk

Its best we wait for that thread to finish and then talk about 1-A stuff

Anyway to the purpose of the thread: It was years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy but originally, yes, the whole thing about the spiral's infinite^infinite (+infinitely reflected through the reflection caves) multiverse being limited and an echo of an even greater existence was accepted as 5-D and as well as the cosmic trio existing beyond even that greater existence, viewing it as flattened and limited, creating it in the first place and can destroy it in an instant being 5-D.

Yes, what i'm trying to say here is that the cosmic trio being beyond even that greater 5D existence should have never been 5D, it should have been 6D

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Was asked to comment on this.

We've reached the point were almost nothing can get you to the next dimension unless it's blatantly stated what number of the dimension the character scales to. Doesn't help that tier 1 is going through a revision (As I was trying to grasp the concept no less) so really all I can say is that I don't think some of what has been suggested means 6-D, specifically the "unlimited" and unbound by the flow of time. I have no real opinion on them seeing it as a flattened wheel, others say it needs more context which leads me back to my first point were everything is vauge and needs more context when it comes to this tier. For now, I'm going to disagree with this update based on my limited understanding of the ever changing nonsense that is tier 1. If you want a more valid opinion, ask Ultima because my opinion is of little note on this matter. That's all I've got to say on this matter.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

If you want an answer, i think it all started in this thread mentioning w101
i mean it is one of the strongest 2-A smurfs on the wiki

Top 10 Strongest Characters for Every Tier Continuation

The continuation of this previous thread here. Rules Characters only qualify for a tier if they are physically in that tier themselves. Tiers through amps that increases both Attack Potency and Durability also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology. Prep Time is only allowed if...

vsbattles.com

Its best we wait for that thread to finish and then talk about 1-A stuff

Yes, what i'm trying to say here is that the cosmic trio being beyond even that greater 5D existence should have never been 5D, it should have been 6D

The issue is that we never meant to imply that Existence itself was 5D on the thread. Maybe it is, and the "echo" statement is support/proof of that, but the main argument was that the characters saw this grand cosmology as a flattened wheel in comparison to them. The "infinite^infinite" stuff comes from back around the time when people would still argue about being "2* 2-A > 2-A" and the like, so we wanted to show every nook and cranny that we could explore for the overall cosmology including the parts that aren't just a single set of infinite universes. Though admittedly I'm not sure why it'd all be "infinite^infinite" even with everything in mind. Personally, I consider it to be more like 2-3 sets of infinite universes, so something like "aleph-0 * 2" or "aleph-0 * 3"... but only for the Spiral. Existence as a whole is obviously bigger than that and so is the Reverie.

The last world of Arc 4 delves heavily into the relationship between reality/unreality (ironic, given Ultima's thread right now) but I can't say much about it because as it is I'm incapable of testing the world and I don't want to watch streams and screenshot low-quality scans while looking through it. Maybe it'll be an upgrade, maybe it won't. Maybe we'll CRT it, maybe we won't.

 

[Robo432343]

The issue is that we never meant to imply that Existence itself was 5D on the thread. Maybe it is, and the "echo" statement is support/proof of that, but the main argument was that the characters saw this grand cosmology as a flattened wheel in comparison to them. The "infinite^infinite" stuff comes from back around the time when people would still argue about being "2* 2-A > 2-A" and the like, so we wanted to show every nook and cranny that we could explore for the overall cosmology including the parts that aren't just a single set of infinite universes. Though admittedly I'm not sure why it'd all be "infinite^infinite" even with everything in mind. Personally, I consider it to be more like 2-3 sets of infinite universes, so something like "aleph-0 * 2" or "aleph-0 * 3"... but only for the Spiral. Existence as a whole is obviously bigger than that and so is the Reverie.

Yeah, existence being an echo of a greater wheel of existence is supposed to be evidence of it being 5D and the cosmic trio seeing that as nothing as a flat wheel would grant them 6D

the "infinite^infinite" stuff and the 2-A>2-A stuff is way too confusing for me to understand

The last world of Arc 4 delves heavily into the relationship between reality/unreality (ironic, given Ultima's thread right now) but I can't say much about it because as it is I'm incapable of testing the world and I don't want to watch streams and screenshot low-quality scans while looking through it. Maybe it'll be an upgrade, maybe it won't. Maybe we'll CRT it, maybe we won't.

I feel like Ultima's thread created even more complicated stuff to happen to this verse

 

[Robo432343]

Was asked to comment on this.

We've reached the point were almost nothing can get you to the next dimension unless it's blatantly stated what number of the dimension the character scales to. Doesn't help that tier 1 is going through a revision (As I was trying to grasp the concept no less

That tier 1 thread doesn't really stop w101 from being 6D. in fact, people are going to try to use that thread to upgrade the verse to 1-A rather than use it for a downgrade

so really all I can say is that I don't think some of what has been suggested means 6-D, specifically the "unlimited" and unbound by the flow of time. I have no real opinion on them seeing it as a flattened wheel, others say it needs more context which leads me back to my first point were everything is vauge and needs more context when it comes to this tier. For now, I'm going to disagree with this update based on my limited understanding of the ever changing nonsense that is tier 1. If you want a more valid opinion, ask Ultima because my opinion is of little note on this matter. That's all I've got to say on this matter.

tell me
when there is a statement of someone viewing existence as a flat wheel, what do you think they're talking about other than a reference of power and superiority???

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Yeah, existence being an echo of a greater wheel of existence is supposed to be evidence of it being 5D and the cosmic trio seeing that as nothing as a flat wheel would grant them 6D

That wasn't our argument, though. Our argument was "They see this cosmology that's at minimum 2-A as flat, so they should at least be 5D".

the "infinite^infinite" stuff and the 2-A>2-A stuff is way too confusing for me to understand

It isn't mathematically sound anyway, it's a relic of bygone times when people ignored Set Theory and treated "infinity" as an individual number, and it was pretty much just "Uhh actually my verse has a bigger scaling chain into 2-A than your verse gg"

I feel like Ultima's thread caused created even more complicated stuff to happen to this verse

Maybe. Nonduality recently replaced Transduality as the default assumption for certain things, and though you can argue the Nothing is still transdual regardless (partly due to the awkwardly vague distinction between Transduality and nonduality), people are obviously going to try and find every single other interpretation beyond "Yeah, it's a 1-A thing" - I mean they already did that just for 5D - I once had to argue that Spider's physical heart, which is consistently described as the main source of his power, physically scaled to Low 1-C, despite Spider already having been accepted at that tier.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

That tier 1 thread doesn't really stop w101 from being 6D. in fact, people are going to try to use that thread to upgrade the verse to 1-A rather than use it for a downgrade

Didn't say it was going to be used for a downgrade. I just said my opinion that it wouldn't seem to be enough but since our standards are changing it could as well.

tell me
when there is a statement of someone viewing existence as a flat wheel, what do you think they're talking about other than a reference of power and superiority???

I couldn't tell you, as I mentioned I don't have a full understanding of how dimensional shit works. Everything is vauge, and in my opinion viewing something as flat can be see as power and or superiority but considering a reality can exist and beings could look at it as nothing but wouldn't count as superiority without further context, I don't think it will get you anything without more support simply because our standards need you to do front and backflips to actually count for stuff like that.

This is why I suggested contacting Ultima (or DontTalk) as they have a grasp on what the best suggestion for said statement would imply.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

I'm fairly certain Ultima isn't interested in this thread. I've mentioned it to him off-site and he hasn't shown up, likely because he's so busy with his own thread that DT is debating him over.

Honestly... they might end up having differing views on this topic which could complicate things further, but if you want my opinion, a subtle AP upgrade is the least of the changes that need to be made for the verse. A lot of stuff on the profiles are either missing context or misinterpreting context, and the Player has yet to be given an Arc 4 tab even though the ending for said arc is right around the corner. I would be willing to go over everything but given how little I enjoy making CRTs I don't really want to be the one to make the thread, at least not at the moment.

 

[Robo432343]

This is why I suggested contacting Ultima (or DontTalk) as they have a grasp on what the best suggestion for said statement would imply.

can you ping ultima or DontTalk-

 

[Robo432343]

Honestly... they might end up having differing views on this topic which could complicate things further, but if you want my opinion, a subtle AP upgrade is the least of the changes that need to be made for the verse.

Most tier 1 CRT's are always complicated

A lot of stuff on the profiles are either missing context or misinterpreting context, and the Player has yet to be given an Arc 4 tab even though the ending for said arc is right around the corner. I would be willing to go over everything but given how little I enjoy making CRTs I don't really want to be the one to make the thread, at least not at the moment.

yeah true
also this is NOT a subtle AP upgrade at all, its literally upgrading them to 6D
but yeah this verse needs a rework

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

As Ben has already said, the profiles are very outdated and would require an extensive CRT to bring it up to date, and likewise to Ben, I do not want to be the one making it at least for a while (I am busy irl until May next year), and if I were too, it would be a hax CRT and organization of said hax's as opposed to an AP upgrade (Unless Ultima's revision goes through, in which case I think AP would be worth looking into.). In regards to this thread, I think it should probably be put on hold or closed as 6-D wasn't really taken into account last time, with the same arguments. Of course if someone wants to argue for it go ahead, but I don't think there's much point to it right now. Again, a hax CRT is more needed right now.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Most tier 1 CRT's are always complicated

yeah true
also this is NOT a subtle AP upgrade at all, its literally upgrading them to 6D
but yeah this verse needs a rework

It's subtle in the sense that 5D and 6D are already in the same tier and there's not much that would need to be changed on any profiles in that regard even if we do say it's 6D. All that would really change would be the versus debating side of it which isn't really that important IMO.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

As Ben has already said, the profiles are very outdated and would require an extensive CRT to bring it up to date, and likewise to Ben, I do not want to be the one making it at least for a while (I am busy irl until May next year), and if I were too, it would be a hax CRT and organization of said hax's as opposed to an AP upgrade (Unless Ultima's revision goes through, in which case I think AP would be worth looking into.). In regards to this thread, I think it should probably be put on hold or closed as 6-D wasn't really taken into account last time, with the same arguments. Of course if someone wants to argue for it go ahead, but I don't think there's much point to it right now. Again, a hax CRT is more needed right now.

Trying to fully update the Player would be nauseating, they need changes in pretty much all keys by this point (not to mention an Arc 4 key).

Also they still call Dasein the Nothing.

 

[KingTempest]

The fact that I didn't send my comment through is sick

Since the experts pretty much said to close it, I'll do just that