Winx Club Stuff

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Um, when was it EVER stated Earth had magic but only fairies could use it? Ive watched the entire series and ive never even heard the words "Earth had Magic" without the earth fairies supplying it to them.

Yes im aware of that, thats why its a good reason why the magic dimension has multiple realms in itself as if it was the opposite they wouldnt need to do stuff like that such as opening dimensional portals or teleporting across dimensions.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It would be nice if someone could check out if the exact relationship between the Legendarium World and the Imaginary world in the original dialogue, because there is conflicting information throughout the English dialogue. Sometimes they are used simultaneously, other times they are stated to be separate. Use of the two as the same thing would suggest Acheron created the Ancestral Fairies, which is..........weird.

 

[Blanked]

https://youtu.be/sw5yJbxb7_c

Around minute 18:00 or something like this. After the Mytix transformation

This is a reference to the creation of the book and later collecting the diffrent creatures that were stored inside an empty space. To put it simple he didn't create the universe but a void that was later filled in with creatures from diffrent worlds. To put it into simple words the book he created had a void made out of space and time which absorbs any type of magic so he used it to absorb diffrent creatures inside it (in fact the book later absorbed him as well and he became one of its legends) and the void inside created the legends which is the world's and creatures inside so to put it simple that feat was limited on creation of one world after another and not an universe as whole.

Basically he created an artifact that was capable of creating world's.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@William

That would explain his magic syphoning power, then.

 

[Blanked]

Um, when was it EVER stated Earth had magic but only fairies could use it? Ive watched the entire series and ive never even heard the words "Earth had Magic" without the earth fairies supplying it to them.

Yes im aware of that, thats why its a good reason why the magic dimension has multiple realms in itself as if it was the opposite they wouldnt need to do stuff like that such as opening dimensional portals or teleporting across dimensions.

Fairies supplying the world with magic sude they are creatures capability of wielding magic they are not source of magic. Plus when was it stated humans are capable of using magic or any other creature on earth except for fairies? Actually if you need so many diffrent detail here. Italian winx wiki. http://it.winx.wikia.com/wiki/Terra I wasted a bit of time to find you instantly the part that speaks of earth (for some reason they kept giving flora's spell) first sentence. "Terra é un pianeta della dimensione magica" i dont think i need to translate you to understant what it means and you can look for legendarium if ya want as well.

 

[Blanked]

@William

That would explain his magic syphoning power, then.

Yup and the original version says that legendarium works as a Tunnel or a wire that connects realty and the universe of legendarium and that the dimension of legendarium is within the book(which in realty is that void made out of space and time magic). Which again makes sense with what I explained before so yeah that is not more than world creation feat and not universe.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Except when was it ever stated he created the void and not the dimension entirely?

In fact, when has Acheron ever even shown space-time hax? There seems to be a lot of assumptions made when he merely likely just made the entire legendarium dimension along with the book. It's not even stated he placed the legends in empty spaces and frankly, does not make much sense. The legends and the monsters that are apart of them would simply be floating in the void like if you BFR someone into non-existence (And Winx Club has done this before. Aka the Oblivion Dimension and Queen Morgana of the Earth Fairies was placed into a shadow world outside existence in S4). A void cannot do anything as its merely just that, a void.

 

[Blanked]

In order to create a universe you would need time and space hax of some kind as well... And dude I just gave you the wiki find legendarium and ask for translations since I am not the only one who knows Italian here considering you don't seem to trust me a lot...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Or just Creation hax? I believe space-time hax is a variation of it though.

Still, it doesnt change the fact that it doenst make any sense how he creates only a void, places the legends in it, and then suddenly the void forms the legendarium world.....when the only logical conclusion is he straight up made the legendarium world using said legends he absorbed into the book. A void cannot do anything on its own unless it was something like how the Great Dragon came to be from nothingness, which there is no way of proving.

Lets leave personal matters out of this please. I never said I don't trust you and I have no problems with anyone at all. Its only a discussion.

 

[Blanked]

I meant on my translations.

And it's not void in "conventional" sense it's actually a space filled with space and time magic and magic can work on its own to put simply ones the books absorbed the creature the magic with it creates a world and that specific legend as you can see on the wiki as well. Thou I will give more text and direct translations so you can see what am I talking about and maybe then you can understand it as well since if I understood well abyssal finds that explanation of legendarium to be legit just like me not sure for the others. Well others is you and witch I think I don't remember all the people that participated in all of this discussion.

Of course tomorrow since it's 01:07 for me and I am dead...

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

"Well others is you and witch I think I don't remember all the people that participated in all of this discussion."

Please do not mind me. I have no say in this discussion, for I care not where Winx is ultimately placed here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes but still for now I still think a void or an empty reality cant do that. Its true Magic is a very supernatural kind of concept but we can't just assume the magic of the legends has the ability to create the world the legends setting is in and take that over Acherons claim in both the Nick dub and italian version to have created both the Legendarium book and the Legendarium world without concrete evidence.

Furthermore, even if he created just the space-time void, wouldnt that still be a Tier 2 feat? Im pretty sure there are characters here who have done the same thing and get this same treatment, but I can be wrong.

 

[Blanked]

Summary and suggestions:

Legendarium is the artifact filled with time and space magic that is capable of absorbing magic and creating world's based on legends written on pages of the book for diffrent creatures from within the magical dimension that the book absorbed and all these worlds are making the legendarium dimension one and unique universe"

For Bloom

Attack potency: tier 4-B (if that calculation is accepted) likely higher with dragons flame. Possibly low 2-C as she posses the power of the dragons flame that created the magical universe. (I said possibly because we don't have any solid proof of her controlling it's full power)

Speed: at least MFTL+ (that is because of her interplanetary travelling if I understood well the discussion between Abysal and Witch)

NOTE

( I didn't add infinity speed simple because bloom has the power of the dragons flame not the characteristic of the dragon himself for that it doesn't matter if he can move in void since bloom doesn't have his characteristics she most probably can't and the fact that she is superior to Etheral fairies and Arcadia in raw power doesn't absolutely mean she is superior in speed as well and the most important things is that the Etheral fairies have immeasurable speed because their bodies don't have nor time nor space which is their characteristic and not part of their powers!)

Weakness: her emotions affect her use of magic. (To put it simply her magic is weaker if she is sad and stronger when she gets angry)

If possible I would like to get staf members opinions first (I think Antvasima and Abysal where the ones involved not sure for others...)

NOTES

The source of definition of legendarium and its characteristics is Italian winx wikia.

It's exactly because the book absorbs magic that Acheron got trapped inside it.

The English version for bloom attacking the beast within vortex says "full power" while the Italian one never and only says "attack with the power of the dragon flame" something Bloom says many times trough series since that is were her power comes from so I don't see that as valid reason to say she controls it's full power since the original version never even implied that. Which is the explanation for "possibly low 2-C".

Now since we only have Blooms profile I don't think it's necessry to continue.

Now if staff members could say theirs about this.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

Contextual blindness in regards to the vortex scene is unbecoming.

 

[Blanked]

I didn't say this but if it's accepted her as full power low 2-C than the trix are all of sudden low 2-C as well and Acheron is even higher since Bloom with help of other winx didn't scratch him. And lets not talk about season 7.

Look the Italian version never implies her using full power and since it's the original I am not gonna discus it any further.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

The Trix example ignores context that the show presents. The other two are arguments from incredulity, to be honest. But I suppose those may fly here?

 

[Antvasima]

@Witch Bernkastel

Please keep the condescending tone in check, thank you.

This is an extremely popular wiki, and unlike the OBD it is open for any member to contribute.

The staff is doing its best, but are overwhelmed by the sheer massive amount of constant edits and content revision threads to keep track of, and are not knowledgeable enough about every single series to properly evaluate any type of argument presented to us.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

There is no tone of that kind. On many boards, thatbis used as a legitimate point of contention, and I do not know whether or not it is the case on here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im sorry for possibly being difficult about this (and nothing against you at all William) but for the moment I still disagree with a lot of this.

-We need more input on the Legendarium World as it still does not make any sense that the worlds the stories take place in can just make themselves upon the book absorbing them. Literally NOTHING even implies that. It stands to make better sense to say Acheron created it as stated in both the Nick Dub and Italian Version, not just the time-space void. And creating the void from what I know is still a tier 2 feat. But again, we need to discuss this more. Furthermore, there is still no evidence that each story takes place in the same universe as again, if they were, that would mean they are all apart of each other which is wrong. The stories are totally separate from each other and if otherwise we would see characters like Rumpelstilskin or the zombie pirates go literally anywhere they want in the Legendarium World and not just be restricted to their own stories.

-Disagree with Possibly Low 2-C. For one, controlling a large signifigant part of its power would surely still be Tier 2 and the dragon flame still created the Magic Dimension fairly casually even if not instantly. In addition, we've established the Magic Dimension itself to not even be a single universe as realms like Domino, Solaria and Andros are separate from each other in their own realities, otherwise crossing dimensions through portals or teleportation wouldnt be neccesary to reach these worlds. So if that is taken seriously, there are multiple universes making this feat 2-C.

-Again, her not having the characteristics of the dragon shouldnt matter because the dragon flame can still be used in nothingess so its powerful energy alone should have Infinite/Immeasurablity in speed. Bloom draws power from said energy so there is no reason she cannot be given this rating. Same thing with the Ethereal Fairies and Arcadia. The dragon flame is literally the basis of all Blooms stats that make her....well.....above human level. She should scale above them in not just raw power but literally every stat. Also, I dont understand what the characteristics of the E Fairies has to do with this really. They are refered to being constructs of pure energy that can move outside time and space and its implied the dragon flames power created them anyway. Besides, even ignoring this, there are still more evidence of this. The Winx were able to move around freely in the Golden Kingdom, a dimension outside of space-time with no issues and Queen Morgana was able to roam around outside all existence when Nebula and the other earth fairies sent her there. In addition, IIRC, Valtor and the Ancestrial Witches were able to naturally roam around in the void of Nothingness that the G.D. was born in upon Valtors creation.

-The book absorbing magic isnt the complete reason why Acheron got trapped, again. This is particially true but its mainly because Acheron's power wasnt enough to control the book. He only ever performed this feat when being strengthend by the dragon flame.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

Solaria, Domino, etc are not in different universes. Why do you think that?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Solaria, Domino, etc are not in different universes. Why do you think that?

In the show they constantly use the words "realms" when referring to all the worlds in the Magic Dimension, suggesting that each world/planet is in their own universe and that the planet of that universe is where the residents lie on, making them the most signifigant and important. And again, if they werent in their own separate universes why would characters need to consistently use teleporting across dimensions or open dimensional portals to get where they need to go when a space-ship or simple flight to said world(s) would be more than enough (and incase you ask about the space-ships, the winx at times get picked up by their boyfriends the Specialists in their ships to take them to their destinations when they want to spend time with them and even then their ships can travel to different dimensions. They did this to get to Earth in S4 for example.)

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

They do use ships to travel to different planets. Anddd they've even used light motorcycles to do it as well. "Realms" does not necesarily mean "different universes" and the word does not mean much else other than "domain where one rules or is in control of."

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

They do use ships to travel to different planets. Anddd they've even used light motorcycles to do it as well. "Realms" does not necesarily mean "different universes" and the word does not mean much else other than "domain where one rules or is in control of."

Good point here I wont lie.

But these ships and light motorcycles have also been used to cross dimensions like when the specialists came to earth to help the Winx against the Wizards of the Black Circle. We also need to consider this as well as the winx and other such characters needing to do the same cross-dimensional travel to get to these worlds, making the point of these methods irrelevent if the worlds werent separated. This is something thats been concerning me ever since we even brought Bloom to the wikia honestly.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

When have the motorcycles been shown to cross dimensions?

 

[Blanked]

Professor dont waste a time okay. Nothing ever in the series said that earth is not part of Magical dimension it simply a world where magic is not part of everyday life and that discussion ends there.

For legendarium the world's are separated and not universes as legendarium is always called as one and only dimension.

And just so you know if dragon flame is infinity speed than anyone fighting Bloom has infinity speed since they react on those attacks so we can completly forgot about "bloom is stronger than Etheral fairies so she is faster even thou their speed has nothing to do with their amount of power"

I won't discus any further with you about any of these cause you are the only person that's not okay with this. Can't satisfy everyone.

@Abysal since you opened the discussion could you tell us if it's okay to go with stats I previously gave.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Because it isnt and makes no sense for it to be. Everything and Everywhere in the Magic Dimension has magic in it no matter where it is and if Earth was really a part of it, then magic would be existent there whether there are earth fairies or not, Making Bloom's unawareness to magic for more than half her life nonsense. And characters wouldnt need to travel across universes or dimensions to get to it, like its literally shown every single time in-series.

Yes we agree they are separated but there is still no evidence of the worlds not being universes. In fact, since the legends take place in their own versions of the magic dimension and the legendarium literally makes those legends real inside the legendarium world, it would stand to reason that the settings of each story are merely replicas of the magic dimension that take place in the story. For example, the Vortex of Flames is a legend that takes place on Domino and is home to the fire eaters. This legend clearly took place during a time when Domino still existed in the magic dimension, so in the legendarium world the setting of this story would be Domino while in the Magic Dimension. There isnt any reason for the setting to be any smaller than whats given in the legend itself.

Not entirely true. Winx Club has almost as much PIS as pokemon does half the time. Only characters who are consistently near or comparable to Bloom would be able to get it, Like the Winx, the Trix, Valtor, etc. Not just an enemy that fights them once or twice and is only a threat because the plot demands it.

Yes, I am the only person because, in all honesty and no offense to anyone, the issues with the current ratings make little to no sense at all. Just because one is against a majority doesnt neccesarily mean the majority is correct. Am I saying its not okay to doubt this? Absolutely not as its normal to and I can understand why some would have issues with this. But as far as Infinite Speed Bloom via multiple evidence being shot down and tier 2 Dragon Flame being only up to Low 2-C goes, that seems like downplay.

 

[Blanked]

Not discussing anymore, I am busy for the weekend and I have no interstate anymore.

And saying I am downgrading is same as saying you are wanking so it's not an argument if you want to discus any further even thou you will get the same answers I gave you have fun. For me only thing to solve is the 4-B calculation.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

In my personal opinion ... We should close this thread and continue this another time . This is getting heated , and to be quite honest with you, NEITHER side is giving enough evidence to continue this argument anyways . It should stay exactly the same until we use more concrete examples .

 

[Blanked]

Actually Abysal already agreed with me now we need Antvasimas apporval. And leaving the way it is means that the side that is against downgrade is right so yeah that's just not an argument, but nice try...

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Excuse me... Did i make myself clear ? I am NOT here to argue with either of you . I said we WAIT for more concrete proof before having such an downgrade. I am completely neutral about this decision . I will make it clear one mroe time. I'm not here to argue with either of you. I am just here to stop this thread before it gets out of hand .

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@The 2nd Existential Seed

If want you say is true about no side have enough evidence then the stats should be changed to unknown, not stay where they are.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Maybe i came across wrong . What i meant to say if that the opposition is not given " sufficient " evidence to support the downgrade, but at the same time, the ones who supports the upgrade isn't really proving anything that hasn't already been implied. His entire argument is just a rehash of what he already said in previous winx club upgrade threads . See the previous Winx Club threads. They all support Kukui's former claims. Due to this, i highly recommend the opposition dig as deep as possible , and provide explicit evidence , because while evidence within the show is shown to support Kukui, the oppositions claims are not truly proven by the show . That is all i am saying . And no i am not here to debate.

 

[Antvasima]

@Azathoth What are your conclusions regarding what needs to be changed?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ant

MFTL+ speed seems totally legit. 4-B is probably legit, though there should be a blog calcing the feat or linking the already existing calc. The Dragon Flame

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. Are you willing to adjust the relevant profiles accordingly?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Only one profile currently exists, but yeah. However, we need the feat calculation, first.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Have you asked any calc group member to handle it?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

What feat needs to be calculated?

 

[Kaltias]

@Dark

The 4-B feat that you mentioned earlier