• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Why the Phoenix Force and its Avatar's are underestimated here?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Antvasima said:
Hmm. If even the WPotC is only one of many multiversal avatars, I suppose that 2-A might be more appropriate.
Jean with 616 Phoenix Force became the White Phoenix of the Crown. Also this Phoenix limits are yet to be seen.
 
What do you think Matthew?
 
That is taken out of context. That was the collective power of an entire planet full of superpowered mutants that Cyclops shot at Arishem. It simply took the form of the Phoenix. In addition, it is a low end outlier for the Celestials.
 
Anyway, could you take a look at the other linked feats of this thread Matthew? It is possible that we have to revise the Phoenix.
 
Antvasima said:
That is taken out of context. That was the collective power of an entire planet full of superpowered mutants that Cyclops shot at Arishem. It simply took the form of the Phoenix. In addition, it is a low end outlier for the Celestials.
Hmm I remeber though that Jean used a Phoenix fragment that she received in Inferno...
 
Yes, she got rid of it in combination with the power of all the superpowered inhabitants of the planet.
 
Yes, it is very inconsistent. However, the above listed examples might be of help to you.
 
Also, I corrected a typo in an earlier post. I accidentally said the Celestials instead of the Phoenix.
 
  • If the Phoenix Force is the source of all psionic power in the Multiverse, it'd be 2-A at least.
  • Phoenix being an abstract more powerful than Galactus is also At least 2-C
  • Uncertain about High 1-B Phoenix
  • That's at least Low 2-C, and it is for an avatar of the full Phoenix
  • Good feat that proves that Phoenix Avatars are at least 4-B
  • Well, obviously
  • I would say that is hyperbole if not for the visuals... Low 2-C is a possibility
  • Phoenix Five > Thor is a well-known feat
  • 3-A / Low 2-C?
  • I've seen this scan. It's one of the images that suggests that Phoenix > Other Abstracts
  • Yep, another scan showing that.
  • Another scan. Saying that Phoenix can destroy the whole cosmos, showing Abstracts bowing to Stranger with her power, and saying that only Oblivion will remain to consume existence and have it begin anew. This is unambiguously High 1-B, I think.
  • This confirms that the Phoenix is a necessary aspect of the multiverse.
 
Okay. Thanks Matt. 2 High 1-B level feats ( Both legitimate... Wow. ) ... few 2-A, and a few Low 2-C. The Pheonix has been a pretty powerful force... Although canonically they depict Celestials as being comparable to the Phoenix Force. I don't mind either 2-A or High 1-B IMO . However, just like the Abstracts, determining which one it falls under is... Tricky.
 
Now second batch of scans:

  • Another proof of Phoenix > Galactus
  • I think that Dark Phoenix is potentially 3-A but never reached her full power in the 616 Universe
  • That doesn't say much but cool
  • Phoenix conversing with the Tribunal is more proof of her being a Multiversal Abstract
  • Watcher saying the Phoenix is second only to the Creator is definitely exaggeration
  • Not sure the significance of this
  • Proof that White Phoenix is Low 2-C
  • Rachel Phoenix hurting Pre-Retcon Beyonder seems very much nonsense
  • Fusing all universes into one is 2-A
 
It still tricky. Should we do something like " At least 2-A , likely Far Higher " ? It's just a suggestion. I also noticed that twice they referred to the Celestials as the Creators of the Universe [ In one of the scans posted here , the Stranger one w/Phoenix, i noticed they can seemingly somewhat control " All of creation " and gives every creation " the potential to end everything". ] . Can you even tier that ? It kinda helps Phoenix because they are comparable, that's why i am asking.
 
However, from what I could see of the "X-Men Forever" scans of the Stranger in the first post, only the universe was threatened, not the multiverse. Can you link to the possible High 1-B scans, in case I missed them?
 
@LuckyCharmingStar

That was a joke story spoofing "Acts of Vengeance", and Captain Britain-related stories tend to inappropriately spam the word "Omniverse" without remotely being warranted. The Impossible Man is nowhere near a threat to all of fiction and reality combined.
 
@Matthew

"All that is" here seems to refer to the earlier sentence mentioning the universe, not all higher dimensions of reality. The stories tend to be inconsistent about this.

In addition, from what I remember of "X-Men Forever", the Stranger wanted to consume all of humanity's inherent potential for evolution to higher levels of power. It was not a story about the Phoenix Force.
 
@Reppuzan

I do not think that the awful and obscure alternative reality storyline "Mutant X" is enough to warrant a profile for the Goblin Force, which has since been ignored, as far as I am aware. In addition, we do not know the intended power levels of Galactus and the Phoenix within this story, only that the Goblin Force was here stated to have destroyed galaxies.
 
Okay. Thank you for the help.

Should Jean and Rachel be upgraded as well?
 
LuckyCharmingStar said:
3305076-2953314-8099948446-exc14
Galactus who stated that Impossible man is a threat for the 'omniverse' stated also that he would be almost phoenix avatar level.
Interesting. So the Phoenix Avatars are not just 4B...

About Necrom's feat. Yes its 2A but with a mere fraction of the Force!

Question: Is Scarlet Witch Low 2C? Because that would make Dark Phoenix Cyclops low 2C.
 
Necrom used the nexus within the Excalibur lighthouse. He did not merge any universes through raw power, if at all.

During the fight between himself and Rachel he was able to detonate stars and the like, but nothing of higher scale than that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top