Why the Phoenix Force and its Avatar's are underestimated here?

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Necrom used the nexus within the Excalibur lighthouse. He did not merge any universes through raw power, if at all.
During the fight between himself and Rachel he was able to detonate stars and the like, but nothing of higher scale than that.

Hmm... Ok. As for Feron...

Feron became host to the Phoenix Force and used its powers to project an ancient tower across the omniverse, creating a copy of the tower on every alternate Earth in existence. Which means that the tower appeaerd in every Universe due to Phoenix's power through her Avatar.

That must one of the best if the best feat displayed by an Avatar who isn't Jean... And unlike Feron, Jean's connection to the Force is well you know what I mean...

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Creating a nexus across all versions of Earth is probably either a 2-B or 2-A feat, depending on how many versions of Earth that there are.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Okay. Creating a nexus across all versions of Earth is probably either a 2-B or 2-A feat, depending on how many versions of Earth that there are.

Agreed but the point is... Shouldn'tr White Phoenix of the Crown scale? Feron compared to her is well just an another avatar..

What about Scarlet Witch? She and Hope coping her power made the Phoenix let Dark Phoenix Cyclops in AVX...

 

[Antvasima]

I personally prefer to scale WPotC and Scarlet Witch from their own feats. Comics are extremely inconsistent.

 

[Antvasima]

I mean, the WPotC was explicitly just one of many avatar of the Force in the White Hot Room.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I personally prefer to scale WPotC and Scarlet Witch from their own feats. Comics are extremely inconsistent.

I understand but WPotC is a bit featless and the power of Dark Phoenix seems a very big deal for Galactus and others... I mentioned the Scarlet Witch well because she battled DP Scott...

Isn't it weird for Feron to be just an Avatar and have a bigger feat than Jean? Oh well....

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I suppose that you have a point. Perhaps WPotC should scale from Feron's feat.

What do you think Matthew?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

In order for me to create Matthew Malloy as a profile here... I need to figure this out. So I'll definitely be following this.

About The Scarlet witch... The power she had was stated to surpass PR Beyonders [ I am CLEARLY against that... But it was stated anyways . ] .She also stopped Meggan, someone with the power of those of Beyond ( Likely Beyonders, as they are the only one mentioned by this moniker in Marvel ) , plus the Citadel & Otherworld as [ Both Connecting to all of creation, 2-A not High 1-B ] a power source. [ She got completely stomped ] . Jaspers also feared The Chaos Wave [ Jasper has a fair sure of 2-A level feats . These are all pretty much higher than Low 2-C . I'll give scans ( if you you want any ) when I get on the computer.

 

[Antvasima]

When was the Scarlet Witch claimed to exceed the Pre-Retcon Beyonder?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

" The power of Beyonder from Secret Wars is nothing to the Chaos Wave " . It was on a respect thread somewhere with a scan .... Just need to re-find it.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

When was the Scarlet Witch claimed to exceed the Pre-Retcon Beyonder?

Even as a Low 2C she needed a person who is connected to the Phoenix and can replicate her powers to fight Dark Phoenix... Then why shouldn't Scott scale? I know that things can be incosistent but here its not that farfetched...

 

[Antvasima]

The Beyonder had been retconned into a Low 2-C cosmic cube by the time of "House of M"/the Scarlet Witch's chaos wave.

I suppose that Scott could scale from the Witch, but only if she was at her previous peak during the event, and I strongly doubt that she was.

She has been all over the scale power-vise.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Found it. Considering Doom only fought PT Beyonder, his comparison should be noted : https://i.imgur.com/ZYdZVUw_d.jpg

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

The Beyonder had been retconned into a Low 2-C cosmic cube by the time of "House of M"/the Scarlet Witch's chaos wave.
I suppose that Scott could scale from the Witch, but only if she was at her previous peak during the event, and I strongly doubt that she was.

She has been all over the scale power-vise.

She seemed powerful and the X-men found her dangerous. Also, apart from Hope, she was their only chance against the Phoenix Five... Also, I also remembered that Rachel without the Phoenix could stop Thor and his hammer casually in that event...

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Beyonder gave Rachel the full extent of the phoenix force, and gave her the power to destroy a nexus greater the the crossroads of infinity... All on a whim. And that was Post-Retcon.

We could scale it to the trans-multiversal feat they did canonically. Also it's worth to note the Time Variance stated no other being in creaon ever did such damage... That's interesting.

 

[Antvasima]

Found it. Considering Doom only fought PT Beyonder, his comparison should be noted : https://i.imgur.com/ZYdZVUw_d.jpg

A retcon means that all appearances of a character are considered differently afterwards. As such, all that was stated is that the Scarlet Witch used to be more powerful than a cosmic cube.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Beyonder gave Rachel the full extent of the phoenix force, and gave her the power to destroy a nexus greater the the crossroads of infinity... All on a whim. And that was Post-Retcon.
We could scale it to the trans-multiversal feat they did canonically. Also it's worth to note the Time Variance stated no other being in creaon ever did such damage... That's interesting.

This is interesting.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am uncertain about scaling Cyclops from a 2-C character, but it was stated that he contained an infinity within him, so I suppose that it is possible.

That said, we are definitely not going to upgrade either the Scarlet Witch or the Phoenix to High 1-B.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The Low 2-C variation is literally the oldest retcon he has. The one fighting Rachel and giving her the Full Phoenix Force was the newest retcon .

I was gunning for 2-A tho...

 

[Antvasima]

We have no proof of the post-retcon Beyonder exceeding his current ratings. Nor can we assume that any authors mentioning him in conjunction with the Witch were referring to an infinite-dimensional entity with millions of times greater power than the entire multiverse combined.

As usual in virtually every discussion that you take part in, I end up mentally dizzy, exhausted, and feeling like I am entering a sea of madness.

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate if you permanently cease and desist with participating in any further Marvel and DC discussions whatsoever within this wiki, as you are constantly taking up great amounts of my time and energy, and I am overexerted enough as it is from my work here.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, it is possible that we can scale the Phoenix avatars from Feron's likely 2-A feat, and I suppose that exceeding the Scarlet Witch backs that up to a degree.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Anyway, I am uncertain about scaling Cyclops from a 2-C character, but it was stated that he contained an infinity within him, so I suppose that it is possible.
That said, we are definitely not going to upgrade either the Scarlet Witch or the Phoenix to High 1-B.

Ok. But she should be Superior to Galactus.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

... I never asked that. Didn't i say i find it ( EXTREMELY unlikely in my first post ? I'm not an idiot ) . Secondly, i never referred to him as "High 1-B" . I was attempting to scale them to 2-A... But Ban me right now if you feel that way. I don't want to be the cause of suffering for another. You don't have to see me for a year at least. Or maybe... Make it permanent. One less pain in the neck to deal with ..

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Sorry. Perhaps I misunderstood then.

I am not going to ban you. You haven't broken any rules. But I do recurrently find you extremely tiresome to deal with.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay. Glad to see we are on a similar page [ For once ] . Now that that is out of the way...

Cosnidering Scarlet Witch has fought the Phoenix Force a few times [ Here , here , here , and a few more ] ... Wouldn't she scale to it , albeit loosely ?

 

[Antvasima]

Again, as I keep attempting to explain, the problem is that superhero comicbooks are insanely inconsistent from writer to writer. We cannot scale the Scarlet Witch from Feron's feat around two decades earlier any more than we can scale regular Cyclops from Multi-Eternity due to harming Dormammu.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am tired, and might take a break until I wake up tomorrow. It is probably best to wait for Matthew.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Matthew? Also what do you think of Rachel's words and the Beyonder? https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125547/3261458-rachel+beyonder.jpg

 

[Antvasima]

The Beyonder gave her a part of his power, similarly to how he did so to Dazzler, and Doctor Doom stole his power.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

So there should be a key for Rachel having that power up?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know if it is relevant enough. It was an extremely temporary event.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I do not know if it is relevant enough. It was an extremely temporary event.

Yes... That's true.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

So there should be a key for Rachel having that power up?

Nah just temporary buff I think we never add those on the wiki

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Not to argue against that ... but Scarlet Witch's House of M was definitely temporary though.

 

[Antvasima]

It was her own power, not an external power-up.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Galactus who stated that Impossible man is a threat for the 'omniverse' stated also that he would be almost phoenix avatar level.

Guys your opinion of this?

Also Matthew?

 

[Antvasima]

That was a joke story spoofing "Acts of Vengeance", and Captain Britain-related stories tend to inappropriately spam the word "Omniverse" without remotely being warranted. The Impossible Man is nowhere near a threat to all of fiction and reality combined.

 

[Antvasima]

Basically, it was extreme hyperbole.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Wow Ant. Not every example of Omniverse automatically equals All of Fiction .