Why Superman is such a great character

[The_Wright_Way]

This thread about the "why Superman is such a great character" note on his Post-Crisis profile and why it should be removed.

1. It's irrelevant. The point of this wiki isn't to examine characters, it's to examine a character's powers and fighting ability. At best, it's pointless, at worst, it makes us look biased towards him.

2. It DOESN'T show how Superman is such a great character. Linkara sums it up pretty well here: https://youtu.be/TUZUu8Ceq4c (see 24:30 through 31:26). Really, it's a poorly written misrepresentation of suicide and Superman and really just boils down to Clark telling someone contemplating suicide "yeah, life sucks, what can you do? Lol." Superman is an icon of American culture and human potential with 80 years worth of stories to his name. If we really need to show how Superman is such a great character, then there are likely much better scans we can use than that one.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will remove it.

 

[Andytrenom]

Thought this was a general discussion...

 

[Antvasima]

I also linked to it in the Site Rules page. Should that be removed as well?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think it should be kept in the page, please. There's nothing wrong with appreciating characters here.

 

[AKM sama]

I think it should be kept in the page, please. There's nothing wrong with appreciating characters here.

We don't do it for any other character though. At best I think a short note about why he is so great could be written in his summary.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, very few characters embody altruism as well as Superman does, so I completely understand why we do it for Supes.

 

[TriforcePower1]

That's not justification for having it though. As Wright said, we don't do that here.

 

[Andytrenom]

That honestly just makes it feel more pointless, if Superman is already so well recognized as a symbol of altruism why should we feel the need to point that out to everyone further in a context that is completely unrelated to analyzing that aspect of a character? We don't do so for other characters that have also influenced people's life but don't get as much recognition.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

The scene depicts suicide as if it was just "things didn't work out for me, so I'll just kill myself", which is so overly simplified that it is almost offensive, because it makes suicidal people look like they're just whinny kids who couldn't live with their own failure; motives to suicide are much more complex than that, specially when we add depression into the mix, and if someone is so depressed to a point in which they're about to jump out of a building, the last thing they need is for someone to come and say "yeah, you're right, things suck."

It's not very well written; even if you want to have a note to show appreciation, it might be worth searching a better scene; you could start by searching some more iconic storylines or writers, there might be some moment more worth mentioning somewhere.

 

[Andytrenom]

Not gonna give my thoughts on suicide here, but removing the link from site rules does seem like a good option to me. But I don't know if that should be discussed here in case of objections

 

[Antvasima]

Well, according to other people, reading that story has helped them out when they felt suicidal, and speaking as somebody who suffered from extreme amounts of despair and depression several years ago (that story I wrote did not exactly come from a place of joy, hope, tranquility, and faith in human nature), I did not find it offensive, but I understand that it may be inappropriate to include a link to it next to our suicide prevention links, so I can remove it if you wish.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I won't argue with the quality of he comic in question. But I'll keep my stance that if anyone should be appreciated for their heroism, it's Superman. I can't think of another character as qualified.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Matthew and Cal that the appreciation is well deserved. I tried to reflect that when I originally included the link and assembled the Superman (Post-Crisis) image gallery.

 

[Antvasima]

I can restore the link if you prefer, but the point isn't that the story was perfectly written. Reasons for suicide differ between different people. The point is that Superman is always there to help and is willing to listen and show compassion to others.

 

[Antvasima]

Given that this discussion is about a sensitive topic, should we move it to the staff forum?

 

[AKM sama]

I won't argue with the quality of he comic in question. But I'll keep my stance that if anyone should be appreciated for their heroism, it's Superman. I can't think of another character as qualified.

There are many other characters in fiction that can be appreciated for one or the other quality they possess. You can find long paragraphs about how they all are so great for different reasons and how they helped different people when they needed it, motivated people, etc etc.

But this isn't the place for any of that. And one character shouldn't get special treatment. It makes us look biased.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Maybe... put it in a Respect Thread for him, like the one for Caps?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so the link should remain removed from the Superman page then. Should I remove it from the Site Rules page as well?

 

[AKM sama]

I don't mind it being in the site rules if it can seriously help some people. But I agree with Diinou that it should be put in the respect thread for him on his page, at best.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

What story?

 

[DarkGrath]

I have to confess, while I'm neutral on most of what is being discussed here, I completely support removing it from the site rules section. I didn't even realise it was there until now, when I saw it mentioned on this thread and I went to check it out. To be completely blunt, recommending that people who are suicidal look at a often controversial Superman comic to "help", is just insulting.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will remove it then.

 

[Antvasima]

@TGOP

This one.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ant I think he meant the story you wrote?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

You wrote that?

 

[Antvasima]

Oh. Sorry. No, J.M. Straczynski wrote that.

Here:

http://www.mediaminer.org/fanfic/view_st.php/171755/

https://www.wattpad.com/story/137197830-vile-fables-for-progressive-childre

A fair warning though. The story is so despairing regarding its assessment of human nature that it almost makes Game of Thrones look like My Little Pony in comparison.

I wrote it in an overloaded pattern-recognition trance between 2007 and 2008 without any plan for what was going to happen. I did not feel well at all back then, to put it mildly.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

It's probably no worse than my views on humanity.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it likely won't help in that regard at least.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Watch this become the most depressing thread on the site.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I will close it now, before that happens.