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Why is True Shikai Ichigo not planet level?

JohnCenaNation

JohnCenaNation

He/Him
3,220
296
At least Country level (According to Yhwach, he reclaimed the power he used to defeat Aizen, and he was able to hold Yhwach back and stagger him with a Getsuga Tenshō)

The given reason for scaling True Shikai Ichigo to Dangai Ichigo is stupid as hell! Not only did True Shikai Ichigo managed to stagger Almighty Yhwach with his Getsuga Tensho, but he also managed to easily cut through Soul King Yhwach's planet level reiatsu by a large mile inches away from reaching him. He even managed to shrugs off attacks from Almighty Yhwach and Soul King Yhwach while barely injured. Yes, Ichigo didn't manage to do any damage to Yhwach prior to Hollowfication, but Yhwach was still on defensive protecting himself with his reiatsu. Also if Almighty Yhwach has planet level attack potency and planet level defense potency, how could True Shikai Ichigo even manage to hold him back at bay or even stagger him in the first place while being only country level? Funny thing is, Ichigo not only managed to hold Yhwach at bay, but also drew blood from Yhwach's arm by simply gripping onto his arm tightly or with the pressure of his reiatsu! It's not like Yhwach was even being gentle with Ichigo.
 
I had suggested at least Moon Level to Small Planet Level from Yhwach's casual Wandereich lifting feat since when True Shikai Ichigo fights him Yhwach had already siphoned the powers from Pernida (Another Arm of the Soul King) and from what ever Quincy that died... Also Ichigo did still kill the Soul King (Albeit under Yhwach's influence)
 
iirc , ichigo only suceeded at killing the soul king thank to the energy Yhwach lended him throught his sword when ichigo pulled it out .

And during that encounter , yhwach clearly wasn't serious when facing ichigo : when ichigo blocked his arm , yhwach camly respond by " get out of the way ,ichigo" and don't even really try to push him out himself , he clearly doesn't want to really hurt ichigo.

There is arguments to prop him up to planet level via scaling , but there is as much counter arguments possible .

i personally am more in the safe side , keep him at his current rating as there is no clear cut evidence that true shikai scale to a serious Almighty Yhwach , the SK or even mimihagi .
 
Naeblis495 said:
iirc , ichigo only suceeded at killing the soul king thank to the energy Yhwach lended him throught his sword when ichigo pulled it out .

And during that encounter , yhwach clearly wasn't serious when facing ichigo : when ichigo blocked his arm , yhwach camly respond by " get out of the way ,ichigo" and don't even really try to push him out himself , he clearly doesn't want to really hurt ichigo.

There is arguments to prop him up to planet level via scaling , but there is as much counter arguments possible .

i personally am more in the safe side , keep him at his current rating as there is no clear cut evidence that true shikai scale to a serious Almighty Yhwach , the SK or even mimihagi .
Click to expand...
This is shown also, when Juha and Ichigo fight in the Royal Palace in the Soul King's Quarters. Ichigo charges Juha down, and Juha blocks Ichigo's advance WITH HIS CAPE while the Almighty Eyes are active. Then Juha gets pissed and charges Mimihagi later, and Ichigo jumps in front of him and grabs his arm before Juha can react, and when Juha pulls his arm away you can see blood spewing from his arm, indicating that Ichigo actually Reiatsu burned him like Aizen did to Gin. Some people claim this is Mimihagi's Reiatsu clinging to Juha's arm, but that makes no sense as there's no energy anywhere Near Juha's hand in this image.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/5917607-8340857879-tm3lg.png

We clearly see none of Mimihagi's reiatsu anywhere near Juha's arm in the panel above, and Juha's hand is clean in this panel aside from these stray streams of liquid.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/5917622-9770413175-sVNMY.png

Page 11, there's now a crap ton of liquid compared to the above panel of the initial grab, now streaming from Juha's arm.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/5917626-6956197789-P_DdK.png

Page 13. Still spraying.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/5917630-1632410334-KR3ic.png

Still spraying actually lands on Ichigo's face.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/5917632-7622846960-VKAlc.png

Still spraying

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/5917634-6443751223-9N4Zy.png

Mimihagi's shadows have no reason to be in that area, nor do they have any reason to be in that area for such an amount of time, nor do they have any reason to be violently spurting from Juha's arm, nor would it have any reason to be spraying directly towards Ichigo and nowhere else. So Ichigo was clearly stronger than Juha before the Soul King Amp, even in base, but Juha was still capable of holding his own via the Almighty. This pattern continues later after the Soul King amp as Ichigo reveals more and more of his power.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
because when Ichigo killed the SK it was Yhwach's power not his own.
Click to expand...
And the same True Shikai Ichigo still managed to drew blood from Almighty Yhwach's arm with just the pressure of his own reiatsu/him physically gripping onto his arm tightly. Also you completely ignore to address every other things that I said.
 
The red snippets is the tone of the dark color. It's similar to Yhwach's cloak which is portrayed as dark black but you'll see that dark red tone on the edges.

Blood in the colored Bleach scans is very clear that it's blood given how bright it is.
 
LordWhis said:
If TS Ichigo becomes planet level it will scale to Uryu and Haschelwaith right ?
Click to expand...
Yes, Uryu was able to hurt Yhwach with the arrow, and Jugram possess the Almighty himself.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
I already provided the reasonings for why TS Ichigo shouldn't be scaling and I see nothing new for him to scale further.
Click to expand...
It still just looks wrong for the rating his TS stands at
 
I understand his rating looks wrong, and that's because it is wrong right now.

The multiplier scaling thread is underway that will fix the ratings and close the large gaps visible on profiles.
 
When are we finishing up that thread anyway? I recall Ant asking for a summary and someone providing it. Is it just mods needing to look over it?
 
We are done with the multipliers thread they have been accepted. We just need to revise the profiles with the multipliers after all the calcs have been finalized.
 
The calcs ..... are we talking about the ones we have had for half a year or are there others I am forgetting? Ignoring the Ulq calcs because we those never get progress ovo
 
I think it's everything. BoS 7-A storm calc is now High 7-C/Low 7-B due to storm revision. Same with a High 6-C Arrancar Arc storm calc turning into a 6-C storm calc. Both of the storm calcs are important and still need to be evaluated.
 
Wasn't the FKT one deemed wrong cuz they scaled the thickness shown in the gap to the thickness of an entire cloud despite what was considered the sky was actually the snow he called forth? The SS Tenso Jurin should be fast to accept tho, just slapping the numbers into a different formula from what I understood.
 
I don't know the exact details but yeah I don't think Toshiro's storm in the Arrancad Arc is usable. But the main problem is that Gran Rey Cero is probably an outlier now.
 
Toshiro's Tenso Jurin was literally the only other High 6-C feat in the Arrancar Arc. The next best feat after this was Fullbring Shikai Ichigo's cloud split which is just 6-C. And Fullbring Shikai Ichigo >>> Arrancar Arc characters. There's also Yamamoto's High 6-C feat but he scales above Gremmy who is Low 6-B. And originally 7-A to High 6-C was consistent via multipliers but now that Soul Soceity characters are High 7-C/Low 7-B not even multipliers are saving Gran Rey Cero from becoming an outlier.
 
Some characters already have a tier with their bankai, so it's already not consistent with the stated 5-10x boost. But I'm curious what the proposed ratings will be using them.
 
Well that's because that was back than multipliers haven't been accepted. Now they are but the profiles still haven't been updated because of calcs getting revised.
 
If they have feats in their bankai forms, you can't just disregard them to make the multipliers genuine. Like I said before, I'd like to see the ratings for the multiplier.
 
Peter1129 said:
Toshiro's Tenso Jurin was literally the only other High 6-C feat in the Arrancar Arc. The next best feat after this was Fullbring Shikai Ichigo's cloud split which is just 6-C. And Fullbring Shikai Ichigo >>> Arrancar Arc characters.
Click to expand...
Toshiro has a 6-C calc though.
 
Well actually there's still Espada 1-4 having the same effect as Gran Rey just by going resurreccion. And Desgarron being > GRC.
 
@Sigurd Exactly Arrancar Arc Toshiro has a 6-C feat that defeated Resurreccion Harribel and Fullbring Shikai Ichigo also has a 6-C feat and than there's Gran Rey Cero which is High 6-C and got no selled by Resurreccion Grimmjow. You see the problem now?

We have two 6-C calc from somebody stronger than characters that no sell Gran Rey Cero.
 
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