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Why do people upscale from Infinite Zamasu?

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This is such an ignorant statement.

If a character has a greater feat of strength in an entirely different form, why do we have to prove their new form is stronger? That’s a blatant reverse burden of proof.

Rage Trunks was able to match fused Zamasu, even without the Spirit Bomb, but gets completely overwhelmed by Infinite Zamasu despite having help from Goku and Vegeta.
^^^
 
I actually heard something about him "Engulfing the universe" which by definition would mean he is eating the universe. Pretty sure eating a spacetime continuum would make you Tier 2. It was already mentioned that "Becoming the universe" was stated when he only started to expand and appearing in other timelines came after he pretty much fully merged. And he's like too strong to contain himself to a single timeline fully, so he's also above baseline.

Being a sentient planet or star doesn't always make to planet or star level since there are other factors such as lack of mobility and having weak points at the core that can be penetrated with Tier 6 stuff. But sentient universes and multiverses don't have that. Can't really divide infinity by a finite number to get another finite number. Just like it doesn't matter if it takes one punch or 10^30 punches to destroy a single timeline; if you can destroy a space-time continuum through sheer physical strikes and not through space-time hax that causes chain reactions, you are Tier 2 period. There really is no such thing as baseline Low 2-C to my knowledge when it comes to destroying timelines. But if there was a thing, I would honestly considering being a sentient Low 2-C structure as the closest thing to baseline Low 2-C.

As for lifting strength, I forgot the exact arguments. But I believe it's because he's still really huge on a 4-D scale, with limited 5-D existence. And he's also "Engulfing the universe" implying he's fitting it inside him and isn't collapsing himself. Though, Immeasurable LS would be outlierish for everyone except Zamasu. But he's an example where LS comes from his dimensional existence rather than his Ki. While his AP is still Ki that can be sensed.
Immeasurable lifting strength won't be an outlier don't worry so I agree with it scaling to the TOP top tiers.
 
This thread is pointless, tiers are given through sheer size, and arguing that the saiyans held back an attack for a moment only shows that they should also be low 2-C (on a much lower level, but the same tier regardless)
Low 2-C as a “side affect of your existence” is all you need to know, do you seriously think that just existing wouldn’t at the absolute least scale to your attacks
And we can also just use the basic scaling, the fact he can damage characters who can probably damage him, considering that goku wanted to get a senzu bean to fight him
Also db characters can sense power levels, so
 
This is such an ignorant statement.

If a character has a greater feat of strength in an entirely different form, why do we have to prove their new form is stronger? That’s a blatant reverse burden of proof.

Rage Trunks was able to match fused Zamasu, even without the Spirit Bomb, but gets completely overwhelmed by Infinite Zamasu despite having help from Goku and Vegeta.
Also this is true
 
Did you check the thread where it was first accepted?
 
My viewpoint is Trunks attacking fusion zamasu = black is gone because he isn’t immortal. Zamasu loses his body and turns into the universe therefore Zamasu was always capable of such power but just never had the means.
 
Did you check the thread where it was first accepted?
I don't agree with the conclusion reached in that thread about nobody scaling to IZ. The main argument is that he gets it via physiology, but he also gets his attack potency (low 2-C) through physiology, meaning that scaling people to his attack potency but not his lifting strength is contradictory and all his stats would scale to his ki, which suppressed Jiren is stated to surpass and the wiki accepts this scaling, so the physiology argument doesn't work.
 
Again?
I told you not to mess witht he DB scaling in the last thread. The DBS scaling is completely fine.
At this point, I would like a note to be written on fusion zamasu's profile that the discussion on IZ's tier or his scaling isn't allowed anymore.
 
Same threads, same repeated arguments from both sides since how long? 2017?

Then staff goes in and the thread gets closed. 4 years of this circle.

4 damned years . This needs to stop once and for all.
"B...But staff closed my thread without discussion....... I call bias"
 
You said this needs to stop. One way of stopping it is creating a discussion rule and closing any threads that are made by giving the reason "this has been discussed countless times before".
Yes, that's what I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to attack staff. My bad for the poor wording.
 
You said this needs to stop. One way of stopping it is creating a discussion rule and closing any threads that are made by giving the reason "this has been discussed countless times before".

And that's usually the response you get under those circumstances.
Creation of discussion rules are one of the only viable options to hold the level of controversy Dragon Ball has on this wiki by a large amount btw.
 
I don't agree with the conclusion reached in that thread about nobody scaling to IZ. The main argument is that he gets it via physiology, but he also gets his attack potency (low 2-C) through physiology, meaning that scaling people to his attack potency but not his lifting strength is contradictory and all his stats would scale to his ki, which suppressed Jiren is stated to surpass and the wiki accepts this scaling, so the physiology argument doesn't work.
Opinions on this?
 
If he can't Support his own weight, wouldn't he just collapse on himself?
Well,the universe itself doesn’t collapse in on itself, but that’s not really due to any property of the universe other than whatever’s causing it to expand from what I know. if he were to be a universe, he would be expanding by default, faster than his gravity causes him to collapse. So I don’t think lifting strength should factor in. unless universes don’t work like that I’m db, or I’m just being dumb
 
Well,the universe itself doesn’t collapse in on itself, but that’s not really due to any property of the universe other than whatever’s causing it to expand from what I know. if he were to be a universe, he would be expanding by default, faster than his gravity causes him to collapse. So I don’t think lifting strength should factor in. unless universes don’t work like that I’m db, or I’m just being dumb
Bo no, you are right, since a universe in dbz is based on ours.
 
If we agree zamasu merged with the universes which is never stated btw. We agree he merged and took out jiren who is suppose to be stronger. Making this scaling wonky
 
If we agree zamasu merged with the universes which is never stated btw. We agree he merged and took out jiren who is suppose to be stronger. Making this scaling wonky
it was the future, and an alternate timeline
also when did we agree on that?
 
We agree he merged and took out jiren who is suppose to be stronger
Where is that even implied? He didn't take out Jiren during this case lol, and that would contradict the ToP statements as Zamasu was never shown to expand his size more than the future universe 7's space-time axis in the process of effecting the present timeline and nothing else.
If we agree zamasu merged with the universes which is never stated btw
We had an entire thread discussing this with the conclusion that he actually did so, I don't think it's even note worthy trying to make repetitions at this point.
 
Where is that even implied? He didn't take out Jiren during this case lol, and that would contradict the ToP statements as Zamasu was never shown to expand his size more than the future universe 7's space-time axis in the process of effecting the present timeline and nothing else.
Even if i steelman you here you would have to assume he took out grand supreme kai as well who scales to mui goku.
We had an entire thread discussing this with the conclusion that he actually did so, I don't think it's even note worthy trying to make repetitions at this point.
Okay so yall agreed he merged with all the universes in future trunks timeline? Show me the thread.
 
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@Ultima_Reality can better clarify on what our standards are for lifting strength for characters like Zamasu.

As for my understanding, an unknown rating should be better since Zamasu isn't lifting anything and is not supporting his own weight against any other external force such that he can collapse. Space time doesn't have mass, and the mass the universe has does not matter here since there is no force there to lift it against.
 
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