Who can Raiden (and related characters) slash?

[Arceus0x]

can he slash someone who's high 6-A? 5-B? 4-A? 3-A?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Dura Neg usually negates durability

 

[Greatsage13th]

any 3D being gets sliced smooth like butter unless they resist the specific dura neg, even those with photon intangibility aren't safe if they can't freely shift in that state.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I'd like to address a pet peeve. I've seen that Raiden is assumed to be able to cut through anything like a hot knife through butter. But even the good Doktor has straight up said that he cannot cut through anything like a hot knife through butter. He can in theory damage anything no matter how tough, but if durable enough it will require several hits to weaken.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

I'd like to address a pet peeve. I've seen that Raiden is assumed to be able to cut through anything like a hot knife through butter. But even the good Doktor has straight up said that he cannot cut through anything like a hot knife through butter. He can in theory damage anything no matter how tough, but if durable enough it will require several hits to weaken.

what specifically did doktor say

 

[TheAngryOrange]

what specifically did doktor say

"It is a high-frequency blade, Raiden, not a plasma sword. There are limits to what it can cut. The HF waves strengthen the metallic bonds in the blade, improving its cutting ability... But in terms of pure physics, no blade can, erm, cut it in every situation. Theoretically speaking, an HF blade can damage anything, no matter how tough. But thick ceramic or carbon nanotube armor does not simply split open like butter with a hot knife. You need to chip away at it first, before you can destroy such material. "

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

hm

 

[XXKINGXX69]

"It is a high-frequency blade, Raiden, not a plasma sword. There are limits to what it can cut. The HF waves strengthen the metallic bonds in the blade, improving its cutting ability... But in terms of pure physics, no blade can, erm, cut it in every situation. Theoretically speaking, an HF blade can damage anything, no matter how tough. But thick ceramic or carbon nanotube armor does not simply split open like butter with a hot knife. You need to chip away at it first, before you can destroy such material. "

This is just saying it has limits

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I've asked the same and there answers here and also the link for the doktor statement

 

[Greatsage13th]

Damn confusing

 

[ZillertheBucko]

well for one, it can't cut high 3-A characters or higher since by default their molecular bonds would be infinite in durability, just to an insanely lesser degree
and if you're like trillions of times into 3-A then I also think for the same reason, you'd be immune to HF dura neg
I'm not a calc guy so I can't speak on the exact durability needed; but as for 3-A and higher, those are the only things I know for real.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

well for one, it can't cut high 3-A characters or higher since by default their molecular bonds would be infinite in durability, just to an insanely lesser degree
and if you're like trillions of times into 3-A then I also think for the same reason, you'd be immune to HF dura negl.

How does that work? I doubt its possible to know if high tier piercing can be resisted with blunt force durability

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How does that work? I doubt its possible to know if high tier piercing can be resisted with blunt force durability

well an 8-A attack would likely be able to atomize a 10-A human, so to survive the strength of an 8-A attack then your atoms must be holding together way better
so eventually it'd get to the point where a 7-B dura neg can't cut you anymore

 

[Arceus0x]

well an 8-A attack would likely be able to atomize a 10-A human, so to survive the strength of an 8-A attack then your atoms must be holding together way better
so eventually it'd get to the point where a 7-B dura neg can't cut you anymore

more like 8-C apparently
1912836400 joules

 

[XXKINGXX69]

well an 8-A attack would likely be able to atomize a 10-A human, so to survive the strength of an 8-A attack then your atoms must be holding together way better
so eventually it'd get to the point where a 7-B dura neg can't cut you anymore

But blunt force durability isn't always correlated to piercing, that's why there are brittle objects that are hard to cut or pierce like ceramic

 

[ZillertheBucko]

But blunt force durability isn't always correlated to piercing, that's why there are brittle objects that are hard to cut or pierce like ceramic

I mean yeah but I don't think that really applies as much when it comes to like trillions of gubbaluppazettahoobajoulefoes or whatever, unless you're like infinite brittle or something

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I mean yeah but I don't think that really applies as much when it comes to like trillions of gubbaluppazettahoobajoulefoes or whatever, unless you're like infinite brittle or something

How? I don't think we would know

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Yeah I know it's just Doktor speaking on the limits and that's my point. Raiden gets paired up and it's assumed that unless they can resist the HF blade he can just one shot his opponent because his sword will cleave through them like a hot knife through butter when guys even in his durability range will need multiple strikes.

I will also disagree with that one guy saying Armstrong broke physics. Doktor called it claytronics. "They harden in response to physical trauma" (get that meme out of the way). But after getting cut they would immediately restructure themselves to reestablish the lost binding force and repair damage. Basically they turn hard enough that Raiden would need multiple strikes to cut but then they fix any damage that Raiden inflicted. Like spamming heal in the middle of the fight. Or armor restore in this case.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How? I don't think we would know

because again, if your atoms weren't vastly stronger then a 3-A attack would atomize you instantly

 

[XXKINGXX69]

because again, if your atoms weren't vastly stronger then a 3-A attack would atomize you instantly

So?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So?

which is what the discussion is about, so....
even if you have the sharpest knife on earth, you're probably not gonna be able to do anything to an 8-A guy no matter how hard you swing
it's the same situation but on an atomic scale, you just wouldn't be able to cut the molecules of a 3-A dude, if a 3-A attack couldn't do the same

 

[Newendigo]

If the HF blade has to chip thick materials, instead of effortlessly slice them off, then I don't know why we should assume it can cut any being in the range of 3D if is limited by such a simple material resistance.

Thickness is not a esoteric concept whatsoever.

 

[Chariot190]

Why does everyone ignore why he can't cut through those, in particular, it's obviously not a durability thing given he straight up says "a HF blade can damage anything" in literally the same codec, which honestly should be a red flag to everyone to take the time to look through other codecs, guides and even pasts games for corroborating evidence
It's because CNT armor and composited ceramic armor has defenses on the same scale that a HF Blade duranegs too. Duraneg on the atomic scale aint doing shit when the armor itself is literally composed of fibers a mere nanometer across. It's like wondering why a knife doesnt instantly slice through something as thick as its own blade or why the vibration doesnt cause the atomic bonds to weaken when the bonds in question are tiny little tubes instead of just funny physics bullshit.

The answer, for Raiden, is that he's cutting through anything that doesnt have resistance to Vibration Manip or slicing on the atomic scale.
MGS just so happens to be a verse that in context, has most of the important shit have said resistance because they've been dealing with that shit for 2 decades in context.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

which is what the discussion is about, so....
even if you have the sharpest knife on earth, you're probably not gonna be able to do anything to an 8-A guy no matter how hard you swing
it's the same situation but on an atomic scale, you just wouldn't be able to cut the molecules of a 3-A dude, if a 3-A attack couldn't do the same

You can, the blunt force durability of an object doesn't always correlate to piercing durability

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You can, the blunt force durability of an object doesn't always correlate to piercing durability

If you can survive not being atomized by a 3-A attack then an HF blade won’t be nearly strong enough do the trick, it seems simple enough to me.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I mean that's the point of the HF blade. To be able to damage regardless of durability. He just can't one-shot everything. Doktor has said even ceramic will need several hits. But he also said that Raiden should in theory be able to damage anything no matter how tough. So someone of of 3A may need more hits than someone of 4A who needs more hits than 5A etc. But hit it enough times and he'll eventually cut through it.

Like I said, my gripe is purely the assumption he can one shot everything when Doktor has clearly stated he cannot. But Doktor has also stated that he should in theory be able to damage anything no matter how tough.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The only thing it can't cut is anything smaller than the Planck length

 

[TheAngryOrange]

The only thing it can't cut is anything smaller than the Planck length

Ceramic armor is bigger than planck's length and Doktor listed that as something that needs multiple cuts.

Also even carbon nanotubes are bigger than Planck's constant. Nano is E-9. Planck's constant is E-34.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Dura Neg usually negates durability

 

[Newendigo]

"In theory" means that, a theory, something hypothetical that corrabotated on a wide but ultimately limited data, that has yet to proven 100% in practice.

The issue with thickness is that, any weapon or tool, or hell person that fails at destruction because of it simply means the attack lacked the force or energy needed to destroy that amount of matter in one go.
The HF blade still would work under the rules of AP, and SS because of that; if it lacks the energy, then it shouldn't be able to damage it.

 

[Chariot190]

"In theory" means that, a theory, something hypothetical that corrabotated on a wide but ultimately limited data, that has yet to proven 100% in practice.

The issue with thickness is that, any weapon or tool, or hell person that fails at destruction because of it simply means the attack lacked the force or energy needed to destroy that amount of matter in one go.
The HF blade still would work under the rules of AP, and SS because of that; if it lacks the energy, then it shouldn't be able to damage it.

Of course thickness matters, do you think 1 nanometer of the shit is going to hold up as well as 20m of the stuff? Of course not.
If the stuff innately has built-in resistances to how it mechanically works, the more there is, the longer it'd take to bisect. But when they say thick, they mean thick, for example, Metal Gear Ray, it's made from both CNT and composited ceramic armor, yet Raiden and Sam can bisect the thing and slash it to bits, or Excel, where Raiden can shred its armor plating and slash its limbs off.

And the reason why Doc is saying "in theory" is because that codec happens against Armstrong and both Doc and Raiden are like wtf and wondering how Armstrong is just face-tanking the HF Blade with little to no damage. Hell, Doc even says breaking the HF Blade is physic-defying in one of the related codecs.
The reason why Armstrong ends up resisting it is due to a combination of nano speed and defenses on the nanoscale, just like the others.