If you want to go straight to the meat of the discussion, you can skip the paragraph below. But I still highly recommend reading the paragraph below, as I think it is interesting to understand why I'm making this thread to begin with, if you think that my question is too crazy and out there. I'm very excited for long discussions about all of this because it's such a rare subject, I don’t think I have ever seen anyone discuss them here before actually. I hope this thread is a huge success! If this thread is a success, I will do other ones asking the same question for other characters in other verses. Hey, anyone here is obviously free to do such threads as well, I wouldn't complain!
I'm always fascinated by story tropes about how fickle and relative power is, such as "always a bigger fish", "normal fish in a small pond" and "the worf effect". And I also like stories that talk about this theme in the matter of size as well, hence my fascination for the Gulliver's Travels book, the polar opposite situations that the protagonist faces in Lilliput and Brobdingnag. It's all about how size and power are so relative, nothing is big or small, strong or weak, unless by comparison (so many fictional verses stomp all characters from different verses, such as Dragon Ball Z stomping Naruto, which in turn stomps Avatar). And sci-fi has explored this theme in many ways, such as the trope of microscopic aliens invading Earth and being casually destroyed without anyone's notice. Other examples are episodes such as The Invaders and The Little People from the classic TV show The Twilight Zone, I love their plot twists, especially for The Little People!
We should discuss here Avatar Aang with all Avatar State feats allowed (such as Kyoshi splitting Kyoshi Island from the Earth Kingdom), and feats from the comics count too (such as Aang's Yu Dao feat from The Promise Part 3, or his elemental beam against General Old Iron in The Rift Part 3), because the ATLA comics (such as The Lost Adventures and the graphic novels) are all unquestionably canon. This is Avatar Aang from two years after the show's ending.
The discussion here is to imagine what would Aang's Avatar State power level be if he was stranded in a land where the size of everything is far bigger than normal. What would be the scale of his feats in this new land? How powerful would he be in absolute terms? And how well would his power level fare in comparison to the power of the regular non-benders, the average benders, and the top benders in such a land where the size of everything is FAR bigger than normal? How would Aang fare in such fights? Could the General Old Iron feat help us on this discussion?
I believe we should do all of these analyses to a few different scales. After all, scales aren't all the same, and they make a huge difference! The scales I think we should analyse are listed below. Also, I know that 6 feet is clearly above the average man height in almost all countries, I choose this number just to make the calcs below easier in the imperial system. If you are unfamiliar with the imperial system, I'll tell you that one inch is 2.54 centimeters, and a feet is 0.3048 meters. A feet is equal to 12 inches. Let's now go the scales.
- 12. If we assume the average height of an adult man to be 6 feet, this would make the average adult man in the giant land be 72 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 6 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 18. The average adult man in the giant land would be 108 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 4 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 24. The average adult man in the giant land would be 144 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 3 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 36. The average adult man in the giant land would be 216 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 2 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 72. The average adult man in the giant land would be 432 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 1 inch tall from the giant's perspective.
If a character can at most level an area of one square kilometer, for example, then the same character when stranded in a land where the size of everything is 18 times bigger in all three dimensions (length, width, height) would not have his/her maximum area of destruction be 18 times smaller from the giants' perspective! The area would be 324 times smaller, because 324 is equal to 18 multiplied by 18! So, the new maximum area of destruction that the character is capable of is only 3.09 square meters from the giants' perspective!
For mass, instead of multiplying the number of the scale two times, you do it three times! If a character is capable of moving a mass of 1 ton in his/her original size, then said character can now only move a mass of 0.17 kilograms from the perspective of the giants, which is a mass 5832 times smaller than what 1 ton is for the giants! The number 5832 is equal to 18×18×18!
So, let's begin! I would love to see as many people in this forum engage with this thread, and I will say huge thanks to anyone who replies here in a constructive manner!
I'll try to give my take on at least the 18 scale. Considering that in the Imbalance comics he is as tall as Sokka, I would guess that Aang's height two years after the show's ending would be at least 5 feet 4 inches. Neither Sokka and Aang are full adults by the time of Imbalance. So, I'll go with Aang being 5 feet 4 inches. From the giant's perspective, he is 3.55 inches tall.
I think that Aang wouldn't ever use against any person an ability like the Avatar State elemental beam he used against General Old Iron in The Rift, because it would have a very serious risk of killing said person (look at the hole in General Old Iron!). Aang hates killing, and he definitely won't ever kill anyone in a cold-blooded manner. Against General Old Iron, he only did it because Toph and her metalbending students were literally about to be crushed, about to die in the next second!
Maybe the use of the Avatar State in general would be something he would only do when he truly needs it to have a chance of getting himself out of true life-and-death situations, as his base level bending would be too weak against any average bender in my opinion. Even with the Avatar State, such battles would be far from easy, not only because of the insane size and power of people and animals who are all giant to him (18 times bigger than normal in all three dimensions), but especially because Aang doesn't want to kill anything and anyone! He would try evasion the most, and it's also in his natural instincts. He could try a giant rock mecha as tall as a person to fight said person, like he did against General Old Iron (though I think that General Old Iron is nowhere near 18 times bigger than the average person, perhaps more like 10 or 12 times bigger), and that fight was being a stalemate before Aang gave his all in a single elemental beam attack that was so destructive to General Old Iron partially because General Old Iron had just lost his metal armor. Maybe the elemental beam attack wouldn't have been so obviously fatal otherwise, despite still being obviously a very powerful attack (Aang's elemental shield sphere in Sozin's Comet was shown easily breaking through big rock pillars!).
I also don't think Aang would casually use his power to destroy or sink any house. Aang doesn't like destruction like that. And, due to everything being 18 times bigger than normal from Aang's perspective, it means that if Aang attempts, with his new size, a feat like what he did in Yu Dao, the area would be far smaller, from the giants' perspective, than what the exact same feat means in a land where everything is normal-sized (such as the Avatar world, I assume). And not just 18 times smaller, but 324 times smaller (the area of a square is proportional to the square of the length of any one of its sides, and 324 is equal to 18×18)! At best, such feat would be able to level the area of a few houses' foundations, and perhaps just a few skilled earthbenders would already be more than enough to quickly fix the destruction. And those fissures that Aang created around Yu Dao would now be, with his new size, small enough so that they would be crossed with just a step by any person.
Aang's Avatar State has the power to defeat and kill any person, but I believe he has no chance against a whole army of them, maybe he doesn't have a chance even against a small group of 10 soldiers or less, he would get overwhelmed by such size and power. Also, remember that, for example, the maximum rock mass that Aang is able to move with earthbending (whatever that maximum rock mass is) would be 5832 times smaller from the giants' perspective (18x18x18 is equal to 5832).
To sum it all up: I believe that Base Aang would have no chance against the average bender, but Avatar State Aang would undoubtedly defeat at the very least the average villain in the show in any fair 1v1 battle indeed, such as Zhao, even if these villains were now made to be giant-sized, and with a power 5832 times bigger than their normal-sized selves. Avatar State Aang would also be able to have at least a good chance of defeating even the likes of giant-sized Kuvira and Azula, though I don't think they would be cakewalk battles by any measure, I think they would be harder opponents to Aang than General Old Iron (not to mention that Aang in-character wouldn't go for the fatal elemental beam attack that he used against General Old Iron, unless the villain has good armor).
Against the likes of giant-sized versions of King Bumi and Ozai (even more so if the latter has Sozin's Comet), I don't think that even Avatar State Aang would have any chance, their raw power is insane. And I also believe that Aang would undoubtedly lose if he has to face any decent army group in the giant land, maybe even just 10 to 20 people would already be enough to overwhelm him. And I believe he would surely lose against giant-sized versions of the Red Lotus, P'Li would already be enough. I'm saying all of this with the assumption of a 18 scale, which means that the people are 108 feet tall.
If anyone has any disagreements, please say them.
I'm always fascinated by story tropes about how fickle and relative power is, such as "always a bigger fish", "normal fish in a small pond" and "the worf effect". And I also like stories that talk about this theme in the matter of size as well, hence my fascination for the Gulliver's Travels book, the polar opposite situations that the protagonist faces in Lilliput and Brobdingnag. It's all about how size and power are so relative, nothing is big or small, strong or weak, unless by comparison (so many fictional verses stomp all characters from different verses, such as Dragon Ball Z stomping Naruto, which in turn stomps Avatar). And sci-fi has explored this theme in many ways, such as the trope of microscopic aliens invading Earth and being casually destroyed without anyone's notice. Other examples are episodes such as The Invaders and The Little People from the classic TV show The Twilight Zone, I love their plot twists, especially for The Little People!
We should discuss here Avatar Aang with all Avatar State feats allowed (such as Kyoshi splitting Kyoshi Island from the Earth Kingdom), and feats from the comics count too (such as Aang's Yu Dao feat from The Promise Part 3, or his elemental beam against General Old Iron in The Rift Part 3), because the ATLA comics (such as The Lost Adventures and the graphic novels) are all unquestionably canon. This is Avatar Aang from two years after the show's ending.
The discussion here is to imagine what would Aang's Avatar State power level be if he was stranded in a land where the size of everything is far bigger than normal. What would be the scale of his feats in this new land? How powerful would he be in absolute terms? And how well would his power level fare in comparison to the power of the regular non-benders, the average benders, and the top benders in such a land where the size of everything is FAR bigger than normal? How would Aang fare in such fights? Could the General Old Iron feat help us on this discussion?
I believe we should do all of these analyses to a few different scales. After all, scales aren't all the same, and they make a huge difference! The scales I think we should analyse are listed below. Also, I know that 6 feet is clearly above the average man height in almost all countries, I choose this number just to make the calcs below easier in the imperial system. If you are unfamiliar with the imperial system, I'll tell you that one inch is 2.54 centimeters, and a feet is 0.3048 meters. A feet is equal to 12 inches. Let's now go the scales.
- 12. If we assume the average height of an adult man to be 6 feet, this would make the average adult man in the giant land be 72 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 6 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 18. The average adult man in the giant land would be 108 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 4 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 24. The average adult man in the giant land would be 144 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 3 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 36. The average adult man in the giant land would be 216 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 2 inches tall from the giants' perspective.
- 72. The average adult man in the giant land would be 432 feet tall. A normal 6-feet tall person would appear to be just 1 inch tall from the giant's perspective.
If a character can at most level an area of one square kilometer, for example, then the same character when stranded in a land where the size of everything is 18 times bigger in all three dimensions (length, width, height) would not have his/her maximum area of destruction be 18 times smaller from the giants' perspective! The area would be 324 times smaller, because 324 is equal to 18 multiplied by 18! So, the new maximum area of destruction that the character is capable of is only 3.09 square meters from the giants' perspective!
For mass, instead of multiplying the number of the scale two times, you do it three times! If a character is capable of moving a mass of 1 ton in his/her original size, then said character can now only move a mass of 0.17 kilograms from the perspective of the giants, which is a mass 5832 times smaller than what 1 ton is for the giants! The number 5832 is equal to 18×18×18!
So, let's begin! I would love to see as many people in this forum engage with this thread, and I will say huge thanks to anyone who replies here in a constructive manner!
I'll try to give my take on at least the 18 scale. Considering that in the Imbalance comics he is as tall as Sokka, I would guess that Aang's height two years after the show's ending would be at least 5 feet 4 inches. Neither Sokka and Aang are full adults by the time of Imbalance. So, I'll go with Aang being 5 feet 4 inches. From the giant's perspective, he is 3.55 inches tall.
I think that Aang wouldn't ever use against any person an ability like the Avatar State elemental beam he used against General Old Iron in The Rift, because it would have a very serious risk of killing said person (look at the hole in General Old Iron!). Aang hates killing, and he definitely won't ever kill anyone in a cold-blooded manner. Against General Old Iron, he only did it because Toph and her metalbending students were literally about to be crushed, about to die in the next second!
Maybe the use of the Avatar State in general would be something he would only do when he truly needs it to have a chance of getting himself out of true life-and-death situations, as his base level bending would be too weak against any average bender in my opinion. Even with the Avatar State, such battles would be far from easy, not only because of the insane size and power of people and animals who are all giant to him (18 times bigger than normal in all three dimensions), but especially because Aang doesn't want to kill anything and anyone! He would try evasion the most, and it's also in his natural instincts. He could try a giant rock mecha as tall as a person to fight said person, like he did against General Old Iron (though I think that General Old Iron is nowhere near 18 times bigger than the average person, perhaps more like 10 or 12 times bigger), and that fight was being a stalemate before Aang gave his all in a single elemental beam attack that was so destructive to General Old Iron partially because General Old Iron had just lost his metal armor. Maybe the elemental beam attack wouldn't have been so obviously fatal otherwise, despite still being obviously a very powerful attack (Aang's elemental shield sphere in Sozin's Comet was shown easily breaking through big rock pillars!).
I also don't think Aang would casually use his power to destroy or sink any house. Aang doesn't like destruction like that. And, due to everything being 18 times bigger than normal from Aang's perspective, it means that if Aang attempts, with his new size, a feat like what he did in Yu Dao, the area would be far smaller, from the giants' perspective, than what the exact same feat means in a land where everything is normal-sized (such as the Avatar world, I assume). And not just 18 times smaller, but 324 times smaller (the area of a square is proportional to the square of the length of any one of its sides, and 324 is equal to 18×18)! At best, such feat would be able to level the area of a few houses' foundations, and perhaps just a few skilled earthbenders would already be more than enough to quickly fix the destruction. And those fissures that Aang created around Yu Dao would now be, with his new size, small enough so that they would be crossed with just a step by any person.
Aang's Avatar State has the power to defeat and kill any person, but I believe he has no chance against a whole army of them, maybe he doesn't have a chance even against a small group of 10 soldiers or less, he would get overwhelmed by such size and power. Also, remember that, for example, the maximum rock mass that Aang is able to move with earthbending (whatever that maximum rock mass is) would be 5832 times smaller from the giants' perspective (18x18x18 is equal to 5832).
To sum it all up: I believe that Base Aang would have no chance against the average bender, but Avatar State Aang would undoubtedly defeat at the very least the average villain in the show in any fair 1v1 battle indeed, such as Zhao, even if these villains were now made to be giant-sized, and with a power 5832 times bigger than their normal-sized selves. Avatar State Aang would also be able to have at least a good chance of defeating even the likes of giant-sized Kuvira and Azula, though I don't think they would be cakewalk battles by any measure, I think they would be harder opponents to Aang than General Old Iron (not to mention that Aang in-character wouldn't go for the fatal elemental beam attack that he used against General Old Iron, unless the villain has good armor).
Against the likes of giant-sized versions of King Bumi and Ozai (even more so if the latter has Sozin's Comet), I don't think that even Avatar State Aang would have any chance, their raw power is insane. And I also believe that Aang would undoubtedly lose if he has to face any decent army group in the giant land, maybe even just 10 to 20 people would already be enough to overwhelm him. And I believe he would surely lose against giant-sized versions of the Red Lotus, P'Li would already be enough. I'm saying all of this with the assumption of a 18 scale, which means that the people are 108 feet tall.
If anyone has any disagreements, please say them.
