Avatar Aang isn't Moon Level

[Deagonx]

Despite giving up their spiritual forms and seemingly being just ordinary fish, the ttrpg and the website state that Tui and La passively give off energy, some of the effects of which make their living quarters lush green and warm.

The fish giving off energy doesn't really help us conclude they scale to exploding the moon.

The website states that they're two of the most powerful spirits that exist, again despite just being fish. The Legend of Korra later confirms that spirit energy itself can be measured by how powerful it is.

I'm fine with scaling them to other spirit feats.

The moon disappears when Tui dies. When Yue sacrifices herself to bring Tui back to life and become the new moon spirit, the moon doesn't immediately come back. Rather, it only appears after Spirit Yue says goodbye to Sokka. If the moon was only tied to Tui's life force and not her passive spirit energy, it should have come back immediately. This should count as a creation feat.

Asura's own view on the matter is that Tui literally is the Moon. This would be -- at best -- a regeneration feat of some kind. Not creation, certainly nothing that scales to AP or Durability.

 

[KingTempest]

Maybe this thread should be put on hold while ByAsura is out?

KingTempest16

vsbattles.fandom.com

Don't hold it

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Ok yeah in that case this can be continued. I'm neutral in this crt.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Neutral to the CRT

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Btw, there was already a crt to downgrade every avatar pre-season 2 Korra finale so that they're not 5-C anymore. Currently stalled atm cause KuKui is absent.

 

[LordGinSama]

Better question: Why isn't this an outlier just for curiosity sake? As far as I'm aware, this verse doesn't even have consistent tier 6 feats let alone tier 5 feats even for the God Tiers.



Being a God tier doesn't automatically disqualify the notion of outliers. If we don't have supportive evidence for this level of power then we shouldn't even be using the calculation.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[KingTempest]

Better question: Why isn't this an outlier just for curiosity sake? As far as I'm aware, this verse doesn't even have consistent tier 6 feats let alone tier 5 feats even for the God Tiers.

Being a God tier doesn't automatically disqualify the notion of outliers. If we don't have supportive evidence for this level of power then we shouldn't even be using the calculation.

Outliers

An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forums debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile...

vsbattles.fandom.com

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.

No. Said characters have very few feats, and their only feats are of that high caliber, such as manipulating the tides and reshaping the planet during harmonic convergence.

2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.

Vaatu had the power to cover the world in darkness and reshape it. La is the entire ocean, and Tui is the entire moon. They are not outliers.

3) Is the event unexplained and unjustified? If an extreme incident is not accompanied by any kind of explanation that justifies it, it is probably an outlier. But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not. If Superman is wounded by a bullet, it's probably an outlier. But if Superman was under the influence of red sunlight or was previously weakened with Kryptonite, it is not.

No. It was fully explained to be the cause of said creatures embodying the moon.

4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.

No. These are the most powerful spirits in the series, with nobody except others who are bonded by one of the two being able to stay on their level. In reference for Tui and La, nobody scales to them, and the only person empowered by them completely wipe out an entire army.

5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.

Not at all.

These guys (the spirits) have solid scaling to these values and solid reasons for it to not be an outlier. The main thing is scaling Aang.

The OP tackled "Aang shouldn't be 5-C" by tackling the spirits being 5-C. Although I am skeptical of Aang's scaling, he has very solid scaling to the previous avatars based on the entire cycle of the avatar in general.

So is Aang 5-C? Different topic.

Are the spirits 5-C? The OP did nothing to tackle that except reuse a previously tackled argument.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Vaatu had the power to cover the world in darkness and reshape it. La is the entire ocean, and Tui is the entire moon. They are not outliers.

Expanding on this, as Kukui pointed out here, Raava and Vaatu should scale to the energy that is occurring during Harmonic Convergence. And it's not just the Earth that's being covered, it's the spirit world as well. And the energy passes through every solid thing there is.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Bump.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Disagree. It is not impossible for a stronger character to take on a weaker form that leaves them vulnerable. It also doesn’t mean they don’t have access to the full extent of their power and can become their more powerful form.

 

[Deagonx]

Possibility alone doesn't justify a rating.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Deagonx @ByAsura What's the state of this thread?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Deagonx @ByAsura What's the state of this thread?

@BrackishBrineBroth @ProfessorKukui4Life @KingTempest You as well.

 

[ByAsura]

KingTempest16

vsbattles.fandom.com

See here.

I am no longer involved in this discussion.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

@BrackishBrineBroth @ProfessorKukui4Life @KingTempest You as well.

Well, currently I'm waiting for Kukui to respond in the other thread. We've pretty much accepted that Aang and most of the avatars won't be 5-C anymore; it's down to deciding whether they will go back to low 6-B or not.