Weiss so serious? Mr. Freeze vs Ms. Schnee

[WeeklyBattles]

Weiss is 2x stronger physically

Freeze is 10x faster and 5x faster is Weiss uses her speed amps

 

[Jasonsith]

Who's got better physical stats?

Some of my findings. You decide.

Mr. Freeze

AP: Physically at ~2,561,392,478 J or 0.612 tons TNT (frequently trade blows with Batman who is stronger than Katana); currently estimated at least 100 tons TNT with his freeze guns (from his profile)

Dura: ~0.612 tons TNT (frequently trade blows with Batman), possibly higher (depending on feat calculation here)

Speed: Combat and reaction speed at least mach 89.43, possibly mach 114.29 (Scales to Batman, who scales to Katana, who dodged this and this)

Weiss Schnee (post timeskip)

AP: 37.676 tons TNT = 18.838 tons TNT (from her strongest summons) + 18.838 tons TNT (from her own Arma Gigas who can harm things similar to her summons)

Dura: 18.838 tons TNT (takes hits from things similar to her summons)

Speed: ~3,836 m/s or mach 11.184 (scalable to Sun Wukong who did this). ~Mach 21 with time dilation glyph amp.

Feel free to further discuss.

I do not equalise speed because I am well aware Weiss could amp speed with summons, gravity glyphs and time dilation glyphs. Once speed is equalised Weiss would be blitzing Mr Freeze and would be a speed blitz plus arguably a hax stomp and therefore a match to scrap.

In fact if you follow my calculations, Mr Freeze just wins by ~2.72 times speed for (mach 114.29) over (mach 21 x 2) in combat and reactions, below the 5x speed blitz threshold (should a 5x threshold is even valid).

Here you go.

 

[Akreious]

Isn't Freeze's Cold Gun strong enough to just 1-shot Weiss in a continuous ray of death and doom?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay, a couple of things Jason:

1. Youre using the low end of the speed calc for Freeze when the Massively Hypersonic end is what was accepted, making him Mach 114 to Weiss' Mach 11

2. Weiss having two 18 ton summons does not mean she is able to output 36 tons of tnt

3. Weiss' summons do not amp her and neither do her gravity glyphs

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Akreious They can both oneshot each other but with unequalized speed and the 10x speed gap between them Weiss is never even going to see Freeze before he oneshots her

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

You can't restrict standard equipment btw, speed should be equal.

Also Mr Freeze has pretty good AoE with his gun

He can release a sudden AoEblast of ice, as well as an uncontrollable mist of ice.

He can do this too.

His ice forms fast enough to block most of her attacks with blocks and constructs of ice.

 

[Akreious]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Freeze is faster and Weiss needs a few seconds to perform her summoning, so Freeze just raises his Gun and Blasts Weiss.

 

[Jasonsith]

Okay, a couple of things Jason:

1. Youre using the low end of the speed calc for Freeze when the Massively Hypersonic end is what was accepted, making him Mach 114 to Weiss' Mach 11

2. Weiss having two 18 ton summons does not mean she is able to output 36 tons of tnt

3. Weiss' summons do not amp her and neither do her gravity glyphs

1. time dilation glyphs push Weiss to Mach 21 even if one argues gravity glyphs do not

2. 2 times 18 equals to 36.
Achievable when both attack together.

3. If it takes one action to one-shot one object, it is reasonable to take two actions to take down two objects one at a time right?

Then twice combat reaction time is consumed to take the opponent (group) down even if each of the opponent member has no speed amp.


What about Weiss starts already with one Queen Lancer as well as her full Arma Gigas?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Weiss wont be able to use her time dilation when Freeze blitzes her to hell and back before she even perceives him as a threat

Thats not how AP works my dude, that is damage stacking which we dont accept here.

 

[Schnee_One]

The OP literally refuses to equalize seed despite being told multiple times to do so

Close much?

 

[Jasonsith]

Found an interesting number. The "general rule" for AP says 7.5x AP vs Dura generally constitutes an AP stomp unless otherwise proven.

"Assuming a situation in which one character has humanoid physiology and is hit in the torso region, the assailant will normally be treated as needing an attack potency 7.5 times higher than their opponent's durability in order to one-shot them."

Anywhere else anyone find a different magical number?


Technically if Weiss starts with one Queen Lancer as well as her full Arma Gigas she was already 2-on-1 with a de facto combat speed of Mach 22 with one summon but without time dilation glyphs.


Sorry to anyone if I "seem" to "literally refuses to equalize seed despite being told multiple times to do so" to anyone.
1. VSBW is in general fed up with speed equalised matches and has been criticised by some as such.
2. It seems as if someone else sees Weiss could not win in 1 match by only speed so speed equalise and then she speed blitz + hax stomps + multiple-on-one advantage.
3. This matchup in particular is very much challenging the baseline definition of speed blitz.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

x5+ is what I use to measure an AP stomp unless the weaker has hax or an ability that will let them survive.

What do other's opinions matter? If they have a problem with the way stuff is done on VSBW, they are free to come here and try change it.

Speed unequal makes it a stomp. Speed equal doesn't let Weiss blitz at all, Freeze can still one shot the summons and Weiss simultaneously by holding the trigger while pointing in Weiss' vague direction.

 

[Schnee_One]

Do you....Know the difference between 8C and 8A?

 

[Jasonsith]

Do you....Know the difference between 8C and 8A?

Weiss can reach 8-B in her post-timeskip with summons. And even her base form is Large Building level attack, more than enough to take down Mr Freeze at only Building level durability.

Even if we are speed equalising this match (where the speed gap is quite marginal and controversial to call a speed blitz at the beginning), at least two threads are talking about speed equalisation. So we need to discuss on how speed is equalised or wait until a resolution is decided.

 

[Schnee_One]

He has 8A shields, and is MHS, that wont happen.

 

[Jasonsith]

I mean, there are three methods of speed equalisation methods (stated here) especially for characters with different attacking methods (which applies to this match).

You guys and gals want high tuned speed equalisation, low tuned one, or all to human perspective one?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

When in the ****...?

 

[Wokistan]

Freeze has low actual movespeed though. A dude with really good reactions isn't gonna blitz a car because it moves a lot faster. Even if her reactions are significantly worse that's still a boon.

 

[Jasonsith]

He has 8A shields, and is MHS, that wont happen.

Freeze has low actual movespeed though. A dude with really good reactions isn't gonna blitz a car because it moves a lot faster. Even if her reactions are significantly worse that's still a boon.

So technically each is faster than the other could react and each could one-shot each other.

Inconclusive?

 

[Schnee_One]

How does Weiss one shot a dude with 8A shields?

 

[Wokistan]

If the shield is a thing he can just leave on and is a full body thing I don't think Weiss can really win.

 

[Mickey1940]

isn't this a blitz

 

[Jasonsith]

isn't this a blitz

There is currently no guidelines on how to call a speed blitz (e.g. Black Panther vs Batman is 53 times speed diff hence speed blitz).

And looks like Wokistan is now arguing (or not?) AP stomp in Freeze's favor.

(If this was the case the bureaucrats and admins can close this already)

 

[Mickey1940]

isn't this a blitz

There is currently no guidelines on how to call a speed blitz (e.g. Black Panther vs Batman is 53 times speed diff hence speed blitz).
And looks like Wokistan is now arguing (or not?) AP stomp in Freeze's favor.

(If this was the case the bureaucrats and admins can close this already)

8A vs High 8C, 8B with summons

Probably a stomp, but thid can be argued

Leaning towards Freeze though

 

[WeeklyBattles]

MHS vs Hypersonic

It really cant be argued

 

[Jasonsith]

Mach 114 vs "Mach 21 pre summons, mach 42 with summons" means 2.71x speed advantage

But if CB AP against MCB dura vs MCB dura against CB dura is already an AP stomp, this can be closed already.