We need to get DC Presence content right!

[Antvasima]

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I am personally fine with rewriting that part of the profile. I just consider it ambiguous what was intended.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

A: I dont think i voilate any rule

B: so you mean all writer of the lucifer series need to come together with editorial staff and then say only then it will considered as right ?

c: same as above

like i said earlier the entire new series was a hoax and was written my new writter and their was no real presence involved if anything would have happened to real presence lucifer would have sensed and it means that he was alive and kicking somewhere outside creation

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TkjVWCO7X...5IssTSog3cTqx9C-t3IwmYCVdxw0UwzW-j1I29i=s1600

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We need to stop relying so much on Twitter "Word of God" (I hate that term) and instead care for the story itself. I am a strong proponent on the idea that art exists outside of its creator, and once released onto the world is free to be analyzed and seen through many lenses.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Death of the author is great and all, but either do that for every series or none. Because this would be what is called double standard.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

IMO WoG is fine, but that author should have a clear influence on the series outside of a single comic.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

We need to stop relying so much on Twitter "Word of God" (I hate that term) and instead care for the story itself. I am a strong proponent on the idea that art exists outside of its creator, and once released onto the world is free to be analyzed and seen through many lenses.

arent you asking for proof on twitter rather than on imugur ? so why is this 180degree turn now? and even ignoring twitter and all that crap its even more clear if one has completely read the story himself.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yeah, honestly you probably should have started with that Matt kek. I don't see any real issue though.

 

[Antvasima]

I am somewhere in-between Matthew's and Yobo's take on this. If something isn't officially stated within a story, and it is shared between many authors and editors, Twitter replies are an even less reliable way to gauge a franchise than usual. Our regulations clearly state this, as I linked to earlier.

However, let's stop arguing semantics, and start focusing on a discussion between the staff members regarding how we should reword the profile text. Do you have any suggestions Matthew.

I would also appreciate if PRIDEXEGO would leave this discussion, so we can get anywhere, as he is being time-wasting and unreasonable.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

you know who created this thread ? what do you mean by time wasting and unreasonable? everything i have said untill now i have provided scan and facts its the otherside who criticized only without any proof and fact (tell me what scan and proof other side has given?) and its the guys who dont even read the series and start updating wrong information only to misguide a laymen.

 

[Antvasima]

I mean that you are being relentlessly confrontational, incoherent, and unwilling to accept our standards and valid points. We do not have the time available to deal with you and won't get any changes done here if you continue.

If this thread continues to go around in circles because of you, I will either have to start removing your posts or close this thread as a result, and as such it would be better if you leave and let the rest of us discuss this issue in peace and quiet.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

You are dilusional tell me what valid point any of you guys even made in this thread with any proof and not using head canon? all i see criticizing which baseless you know if some of you have actually read the series you can come up with some proof even tho it will be wrong but atleast something will be thier to asist opposite claims but nothing.

Regarding deleating comment and closing it go ahead i dont care it only prove you care more about yourself than facts and dont care if the information is right or wrong. This is my last post i am done with this site anyway. You guys dont even read the series only "google power".

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's been clearly debunked my dude. And they've clearly read it, otherwise they couldn't have gotten the scans. And they're changing the information anyway. There's no issue.

 

[The_Omnipotente]

I think trust is perfectly plausible in the author's word. It is an official information and a cannon like any other, and does not believe in the information solely for being a twitter is literally a fallacy .
and in this case still has indications that it really was not the presence.
Especially in this Comic, where it was not fully explained, ie there is more evidence of not being the presence than the opposite.
If there is no contradiction with the work, I see no problem.

 

[Antvasima]

Yobo is correct. We need to focus on how we should reword the text in practice, rather than bicker about details. I would appreciate help with suggestions.

 

[Hykuu]

We need to stop relying so much on Twitter "Word of God" (I hate that term) and instead care for the story itself. I am a strong proponent on the idea that art exists outside of its creator, and once released onto the world is free to be analyzed and seen through many lenses.

Ok, let's disregard the WoG Matt

1. Lucifer's statement

2. The entity claiming to be the presence and nothing proving it which is a hasty generalization and a appeal to probability

3. It being completely illogical that it's the presence due to how it acts and how the presence functions as a being

Debunk these, good luck.

And according to ant and yobo the info is getting rewritten anyway, so If that is happening let's decide whose doing the edits and close the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Suggestions for how specifically we should rewrite the page would still be appreciated.

 

[Hykuu]

No idea, what's really ticking me is that I feel zoro is a alt of the OP's or some friend he contacted

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Agreed. I have deleted his comment.

 

[Nether_nine]

Lucifer's statement was good enough, an Author giving a no-brainer confirmation about it, was already good enough.

If Matt thinks that it's okay to use secondary canon stuff like Larfleeze scans and Matteis WOG for High-1B+ Monitors written by literally separate writers of no coordination, using WOG statements to affirm to higher dimensions, there's no reason for us to dismiss these additional statements confirming it wasn't the Presence.

I feel like the contrarians against the Judeo-Christian DC Cosmology have an agenda in mind to keep the Morrisonid Cosmology on top and everything else second. By constantly downplaying the Presence over and over.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Lucifer also thought that whoever this was likely stole The Presence's power, and we also saw the metamophosis which complicates the issue.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

even tho i dont want to coment anymore i just want to add something hoping it will help

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/HfAvyCn1O...OT1lEBBgK5wPzGpIY8jXP4aIR2pvZa8c-w6ORew=s1600

this was another god( kind of i will explain later) he killed everthing supposedly

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/kdeUUC8To...OgdRcXWBX2U2wz1jTUef4d4q43EtMiSguw1wsCQ=s1600

then he threaten the spectre https://2.bp.blogspot.com/A8-WMrBnU...zzsnpFr6ODyt4mUzsU9Owr59cNTHoIUNlkJzSqA=s1600

then our hero jim using plot armour killed this god with power of words

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/oPrretuzb..._GCtlm44gYY5KrcrsXHNisTBPR9DX3vMTxc6brw=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/uxD4aSdDj...Jm_7G0PZcfs7Rj8cNrBH_WeButoQT9rUWpECGyQ=s1600

so did he really killed the presence aka god or what was it ?

No not at all it was just his imagination and perception of god which he dreamt and thought as spectre seeing all wrong things in creation and jim even spectre never actually seen the real presence at all.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/cnPTU4wDn...FLiz-O12p3gSymB8WFLh-KStPSRRhgbYKlw5U0A=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/iUxFSqRV7...fBqNql5B9YdkWVM6AvzLqE1qRi7bfVzKn-HA3Ng=s1600

now how this help? it shows us that gods can be created by the dreaming of sentient being of what they presume of god to be if they think god to nice a nice image of god created in thier head if they think god is merciless and brutal then thats how that dark god from lucifer 2 came into being and not being the original presence that started it all.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

and that aint me

 

[Nether_nine]

A little off topic, but how would you respond when someone is lowballing Michael Demiurgos because he was trapped by Sandalphon?

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

well he was trapped and tricked by lucifer worshiper and michael never ever harm human no matter what unless presence himself say so he follow presence blindly and he think humans were his best creation thats why presence loves lucifer more than anything because of his free will. When presence left dc creation everthing seems to collapse it was only michael thats was holding it togethe but michael didnt want to live without presence so he let himself absorbed by ellaine and giving her the power of creation if ellaine didnt absorb michael after lucifer killed him he would have reformed again like previous time as he can never truly die.


To help humans from vengeful spirit of god eclipso( which he himself created) gone rouge he was also the one who created spectre not presence.

 

[Hykuu]

For the spectre stuff, yes that comes from the last issue of spectre 1992, that was just a illusion created by the spectre as hal's father explains. The thing is that same God has actually shown some pretry good feats like slapping Michael and the entire silver city

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

i dont think he slapped michael at all and neither he destroyed silver city because destroying silver will collapse multiverse on itself it was just spectre imagination going wild even in that imagination spectre/jim saw michael was so honest and loyal to god that no matter what he did he wont resist at all.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GTJdu0Y54...jmkMK2RaxyKNqD8t5jDoZgcUIPll-dYbjRV-IFQ=s1600

 

[Antvasima]

Suggestions for how specifically we should rewrite the page would still be appreciated.

^

 

[Hykuu]

i dont think he slapped michael at all and neither he destroyed silver city because destroying silver will collapse multiverse on itself it was just spectre imagination going wild even in that imagination spectre/jim saw michael was so honest and loyal to god that no matter what he did he wont resist at all.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GTJdu0Y54...jmkMK2RaxyKNqD8t5jDoZgcUIPll-dYbjRV-IFQ=s1600

The inhabitants of the silcer city, not the city itself, michael not resisting won't disqualify it as a feat as hurting a outerversal is a outerversal feat no matter how much they hold back

 

[Nether_nine]

@Hykuu@PrideX

See, because some people say "Michael is not 1-A because he was trapped for a thousand years so weak hurr durr" I mean, you know. Hard to grapple around that.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

the main part is that wasnt the real micahel or presence it was just happening in the imagination of jim thats all and nothing happen to the inhabitants of silver city it was all going in jim head all the angel in silver city represent a part of creation if they were removed from creation that particular part of creation would be erased thats why before leaving dc creation lucifer gave his lightbringer power to mazkeen.

 

[Nether_nine]

I'm talking about the time Sandalphon felled Michael and binded him. In M. Carey's Lucifer?

What evidence is there to prove the chains and the weapon used by Sandalphon against Michael to trap and chain him are Outerversal? If this isn't addressed and rationalized properly, this could blow up.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Suggestions for how specifically we should rewrite the page would still be appreciated.

^

imo my opinion you dont have to write anything new you just have to deleate this part;-

"Furthermore, as of the 2015 Vertigo Lucifer Comic, The Presence was severely injured, or temporarily killed by the archangel Gabriel Hornblower, although apparently with a weapon that he himself fashioned, and was later cut to pieces by Lucifer himself."

or you can write it this way;-

Furthermore, as of the 2015 Vertigo Lucifer Comic, a new god of fire and brimstone appear claiming itself as the presence but latter disproven by lucifer and raphael that he wasnt the presence and killed by lucifer.

but i think you should just erase it the eniter lucifer#2 series felt non canon according to sandman and lucifer series1.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

I'm talking about the time Sandalphon felled Michael and binded him. In M. Carey's Lucifer?
What evidence is there to prove the chains and the weapon used by Sandalphon against Michael to trap and chain him are Outerversal? If this isn't addressed and rationalized properly, this could blow up.

Sandalphon is not your average joe he was one of the allies of lucifer when he rebel against heaven and michael if used his all his power could have ended the war all by himself but he hesitent to fight lucifer who was trying his best to free himself because of free will.

he attacked michael heart from back with his sword if you take out angels heart they fell thats what happen to gabriel constantine trick and took out his heart and he fell from grace and become powerless.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YJ8BtBlN15M/VuDPUoiF6WI/AAAAAAAABw8/M9Mtgt7SUf0/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dz53z6qv6bE/VuDPUz1k8kI/AAAAAAAABw8/4b0AaSoF3c4/s1600-Ic42/RCO014.jpg

but after lucifer killed michael he gained his complete body and returned back to heaven

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ZbPVbuuTp...0VSQES8_9NMj3wftgqSsKezrrOuJHHzla7SpH32=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/lNWxAd2T5...f_pVIDC6Igns0bcdOxYh2ouX-und1-S2-Ojnh4i=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pzIzKpr-7...mSsf58n7t6XGJVnFY5cx2Z1BamsHGh5cDvoRX92=s1600

 

[Antvasima]

imo my opinion you dont have to write anything new you just have to deleate this part;-

"Furthermore, as of the 2015 Vertigo Lucifer Comic, The Presence was severely injured, or temporarily killed by the archangel Gabriel Hornblower, although apparently with a weapon that he himself fashioned, and was later cut to pieces by Lucifer himself."

or you can write it this way;-

Furthermore, as of the 2015 Vertigo Lucifer Comic, a new god of fire and brimstone appear claiming itself as the presence but latter disproven by lucifer and raphael that he wasnt the presence and killed by lucifer.

but i think you should just erase it the eniter lucifer#2 series was non canon according to sandman overture later,

Didn't Sandman Overture come out before Lucifer volume 2, or do I misremember? Also, how was it turned into non-canon?

Do the rest of you think that I should delete that text segment, or rewrite it to an updated explanation?

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

yes sandman overture comes out first my bad i meant to say its event felt non canon i should edit that becuase in sandman lucifer left hell with mazikeen wanted to get rid of it and in the end of lucifer hell wasnt rulled by anyone as ellain become a neutral god neither siding with heaven or hell and series 2 completely blows it by making mazikeen having the ruler of the hell. In series 1 when presence decided to leave creation getting bored of the struggle of lucifer, lilith and fenris all the endless becomes worried hell destiny of the endless invited lucifer and then michael barge in as both can sense something terible about to happen so destiny wanted to warm even death of the endless said to lucifer "big wheel are turing everyone wanted to know what will happen at the end."

But in series 2 either the whole event was beneath the notice of endless or they didnt exsist at all making it feel like its own set of little story and the entire series lasted only 19 issues compared to 75 issues of first one. The only one mentioned in series 2 was dream in a flashback when lucifer gave him the key of hell.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is possible that the current third Lucifer series has retconned the second, but I am not well informed about it.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

their is no series 3 as far as i remember

 

[Antvasima]

There is. It is part of the new Vertigo line.

https://***************.to/Comic/Lucifer-2018

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

the hell lol i didnt know thanks need to check who is the writer

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

......deleated this coment because unrelated