We need to get DC Presence content right!

[PRIDEXEGO]

Dude. The Presence and the Great Darkness are equal opposites. Literally depicted as two hands locked in an eternal arms wrestle. And they can only end their fight by ceasing the conflict and becoming one. Similarly, the Presence's Male and Feminine halves are equal in the story and can be confronted. That the Carnivore actually absorbed part of the Presence's power is proof enough that he's not Omnipotent.

no you are wrong on this if they were equal presence would have been changed because of the merger and presence even wanted to merge with lucifer so lucifer is also his equal half? your logic is wrong

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Dude. The Presence and the Great Darkness are equal opposites. Literally depicted as two hands locked in an eternal arms wrestle. And they can only end their fight by ceasing the conflict and becoming one. Similarly, the Presence's Male and Feminine halves are equal in the story and can be confronted. That the Carnivore actually absorbed part of the Presence's power is proof enough that he's not Omnipotent.

it is stated multiple time presence is omnipotent and infinite but the main part of this thread is the this paragraph written in dc presence bio here.

Furthermore, as of the 2015 Vertigo Lucifer Comic, The Presence was severely injured, or temporarily killed by the archangel Gabriel Hornblower, although apparently with a weapon that he himself fashioned, and was later cut to pieces by Lucifer himself.

this thing is completely wrong and give people the idea that lucifer and gabriel and kill thier father real presence. Whereas in issue 75 is clearly mentioned that real presence can erase them if he wished whereas this dark god was weak and needed host of heaven to protect him.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Matthew makes sense, but would appreciate his thought about if we should consider the Dark Presence as the original or just as a being who stole his power?

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

I think that Matthew makes sense, but would appreciate his thought about if we should consider the Dark Presence as the original or just as a being who stole his power?

Why would you consider dark presence as real presence and they part where lucifer mentioned he MIGHT have stolen presence power lucifer isnt completely sure how he has some part of presence in him but he definately isnt presence his name was mentioned as Fire God on his first appearence.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/FY4rIVKxL...8oJxxK3vJJml1W6YcyW4YKm4fTOanRJGdnq8EXq=s1600

even lucifer has some part of presence in him thats why when gabriel said presence is dead and heaven thinks he did it then lucifer flat outright said bull presence cant be dead if anything happen to presence he would be able to sense or feel it.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TkjVWCO7X...5IssTSog3cTqx9C-t3IwmYCVdxw0UwzW-j1I29i=s1600

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Bump, I believe that Elaine even refers to this dark god as being The Presence as well during the course of the comic.

While it's certainly true it's not The Presence in the same way he was before, I don't think it is possible that he is completely unrelated.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Bump, I believe that Elaine even refers to this dark god as being The Presence as well during the course of the comic.
While it's certainly true it's not The Presence in the same way he was before, I don't think it is possible that he is completely unrelated.

The main point is he is not presence calling him presence is like calling weaker version of elaine presence or calling ellaine herself presence lol plus that dude needed host of angel to protect him. Accoring to the content written on VSwikki if someone stab ellaine then it will be considered that someone stabbed presence? My point is some real noob writted that thing in vswikki without reading the series. Presence was never called god of fire and brimstone that thing in first appearance was called that and even lucifer confirmed it many time plus rapheal too that he is not presence.

 

[Hykuu]

There's a WoG about that not being God, I'll get it later

for the carnivore stuff, I'd just like to point out how you literally concede to it being a aspect yet use this against the presence ????? the aspects of the presence are never stated to be the whole of his power nor can you prove that carnivore wasn't just bluffing about this. Also, God got his feminine aspect absorbed which as stated by carnivore would turn him evil?????? Hmm, I thought that the Presence was meant to be the embodiment of Absolute Good against GEB???? not off to a good start.

Carnivore is Wally the God Boy ,The Idea of the presence being this being is twisted as hell, the context doesn't match how we see the vertigo presence in any sense and trying to interwine this comic with vertigo is illogical. Hell this already got retconned by n52 so it's irrelevant, and even if we say it wasn't for whatever reason what a writer or characters such as carnivore or super girl percieve as the presence is subjective anyway

Further More, The Entire Plot and him being defeated was all a part of his plan,making this supposed anti feat invalid.

Also for the Presence and GEB feat, it's just a aspect of God, as we saw the hand from the limited perspective of mortal beings (and the presence states he takes a form comprehensible to lower beings)

Also for the lucifer thing even if we take that as being the presence it would be dumb for lucifer killimg God lol

I'm not pushing for omnipotent presence but I'm not seeing any decent counter arguments made.

Also, chill on the OP, lol, it's clear he's new to posting and that he's still learning how to format his comments (he's getting the hang of it I c)

 

[Hykuu]

Here we go, found the WoG

1

Let's look at lucifer's wording

"Whatever you are, You MAY have some of HIM in you, PERHAPS you stole his power as you stole mine, but you are NOT MY FATHER"

The Entity having the power of the presence is a mere assumption/hypothesis from lucifer and he outright denies it being his father/the presence.

 

[The_Omnipotente]

What do you think of this twitter?

https://imgur.com/a/Ya9CtDU

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't trust alledged twitter posts which link to an imgur post rather than the tweet itself and conveniently omitt the link.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Good thing someone linked it in the post immediately above his OvO

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

What do you think of this twitter?
https://imgur.com/a/Ya9CtDU

yes he is not presence by a long shot their is so much proof already posted

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

I don't trust alledged twitter posts which link to an imgur post rather than the tweet itself and conveniently omitt the link.

why are you still hell bend on him being the presence? when their is so many proof against it that he is not presence at all and almost no proof in favour.

 

[The_Omnipotente]

I don't trust alledged twitter posts which link to an imgur post rather than the tweet itself and conveniently omitt the link.

Well, they already sent here (wiki) I thought it was not necessary. Here the link .

 

[Antvasima]

So which parts of the text in The Presence profile would we need to remove, and which linked images should we insert to clarify that the Dark Presence is likely not the same character?

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

So which parts of the text in The Presence profile would we need to remove, and which linked images should we insert to clarify that the Dark Presence is likely not the same character?

ofcourse this part lol

"Furthermore, as of the 2015 Vertigo Lucifer Comic, The Presence was severely injured, or temporarily killed by the archangel Gabriel Hornblower, although apparently with a weapon that he himself fashioned, and was later cut to pieces by Lucifer himself."

as for proof their are so many already posted

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DwpU5FUu...P0fz_MtFUDVLHNd0mNwwcwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO014.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/h6U1m4r2r...KweK8xkURs0WN7FYJzm5qhM7kWNqNkfb8X0gI1M=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/FY4rIVKxL...8oJxxK3vJJml1W6YcyW4YKm4fTOanRJGdnq8EXq=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TkjVWCO7X...5IssTSog3cTqx9C-t3IwmYCVdxw0UwzW-j1I29i=s1600

https://plus.google.com/photos/1086...201&ssid=c64e733a-6095-4d6a-9eed-2384a8fa4e3f

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would appreciate if somebody experienced could ask the following members to comment here, so we get more input, especially the staff members:

Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23, Huesito88.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

I don't trust alledged twitter posts which link to an imgur post rather than the tweet itself and conveniently omitt the link.

Well, they already sent here (wiki) I thought it was not necessary. Here the link .

that is really helpful.

 

[Hykuu]

Tmw you spend 40 minutes on a comment only for it to get nitpicked and left to die ƒÿû

But if I haven't made it obvious I generally agree with the OP on it not being the presence

 

[Hykuu]

Well, I would appreciate if somebody experienced could ask the following members to comment here, so we get more input, especially the staff members:
Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23, Huesito88.

On another note, why is my name not there? Iirc I put my name on the knowledgable members list, not trying to sound salty, just curious

 

[Antvasima]

You are already here, and you also tend to be argumentative and occasionally inflammatory.

 

[Hykuu]

I mean even in threads I haven't posted in yet the list doesn't change, and of course I'd debate if someone doesn't bring up a valid point against a argument, inflammatory? i've dropped that along time ago, lol, why'd you think I was unbanned? Anyway we should stop here, let's try not to derail the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Agreed.

 

[Hykuu]

Anyway, The entire tiering of the presence thing is just derailing, the OP has literally said that's for another discussion, let's just deal with the black god or whatever being the Presence (I've shown my arguments as to why he isn't which haven't been refuted yet.)

 

[Antvasima]

We need more input first, but I personally think that the nature of the Dark Presence was left ambivalent, so we need to modify the profile to reflect that, rather than claim outright that the archangels can kill him.

 

[Hykuu]

Here we go, found the WoG
1

Let's look at lucifer's wording

"Whatever you are, You MAY have some of HIM in you, PERHAPS you stole his power as you stole mine, but you are NOT MY FATHER"

The Entity having the power of the presence is a mere assumption/hypothesis from lucifer and he outright denies it being his father/the presence.

The writer literally confirms that it isn't the presence, same with lucifer himself. There isn't really much to debate here, but I guess we should wait

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Hykuu]

Oh, Right, And The Gabriel killing Presence thing has been confirmed to be just a part of the Presence's plan by Lucifer, so it isn't a anti feat.

 

[Antvasima]

I wouldn't call speculation confirmation. We saw what appeared to be The Presence struck down and then metamorphosing during Holly Black's run, and the book was cancelled before the new writer could officially clarify what was going on. As such the situation was left rather ambivalent.

 

[Hykuu]

"speculation"

Can you tell me where Lucifer exclaims a shred of doubt in this sca

 

[Antvasima]

If that was the real Presence, he wasn't truly dead, just metamorphosing, so that is not a bullet-proof argument.

 

[Hykuu]

he was never dead, that's what lucifer didn't know as the presence never metamorphised yet.

 

[Antvasima]

He was definitely metamophising from one state to another. Whether that was the original or a fake that had stolen The Presence's power was left ambivalent, as the story was cut off. It was never confirmed one way or the other.

 

[Hykuu]

That doesn't directly debunk the WoG, nor the lucifer statement

 

[Antvasima]

The WoG was never made official though.

 

[Hykuu]

>Wrote the comic

>isn't official ????

 

[Antvasima]

Official means published in the actual story, not just a Twitter reply. We usually avoid using that sort of thing, as it is discouraged by our regulations.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Official means published in the actual story, not just a Twitter reply. We usually avoid using that sort of thing, as it is discouraged by our regulations.

wth! man did you even read the story when in the story it was confirmed he was the presence ?litterally every angel including other candidates for god realize by the end he was some wannabe pretending to be presence. The part where gabriel stab him and it say if "THAT" presence ever come back litterally saying about that particular "god of fire and brimstone" not about the real presence that appear in actual lucifer series 1 is it so hard to understand?

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Official means published in the actual story, not just a Twitter reply. We usually avoid using that sort of thing, as it is discouraged by our regulations.

tell me if i wrote a book on quantum physics(or let say pythagoras theorem) and you dont understand it and you came to me to ask me to explain clearly in simplified way on twitter will it be considered canon(right) or non canon(wrong) since i didnt use simple language in book ?

 

[Antvasima]

A: See here: Discussion Rules

B: He was not the only writer. Holly Black wrote the first story.

C: We don't know if DC editorial would have let him clarify that the Presence that Gabriel and Lucifer killed was a false one. The story was cancelled before it ever moved that far.

However, I am not sure if the new Lucifer series will have retconned the previous one.