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Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!

I’m not arguing infinite skill btw, just that it is quantifiably really good.
Thats the problem though, its not quantifiable in the first place and therefore not a good feat. You cant tell me how much concrete growth he gets through that thingy (I dont know the concrete context so bear with me, I dont do Ben10) other than that he gains skill through it. Does he gain skill with every fight? How much does he get? If its a liniar mathematical formular, for how long did he get skill through that method? I will elaborate on that issue down on my Experience point, because they are pretty similar in their issues. But it basically boils down to "How big is the difference in skill from before he started to improve (Skill level starting point) to the end". And you will realize that it basically boils down to concrete skill feats in the end,

Why can experience only help to make skill feats more impressive? Is it like x character dealt with y thing before and thus beating him with y thing is impressive?
Experience is the most widespread "Skill-Fallacy" out there, for a good reason, but still a fallacy nonthenless. It makes sense intuitivly, but if you ponder over it longer, the more unrelated to skill it will be.

To illustrate this, lets assume a fictional verse. Its setting is the 100 Year War and our main character is a skilled warrior fighting in said war. To make it clear that he is a succesfull warior because of his skill, lets make him below average in physical stats. Now the gimmick of the series: Our main character is stuck in a timeloop and has to forever fight in the 100 Year War. No substential changes happen in the loop other than things caused by the maincharacter personally through different choices. In his first loop, he went from a recruit to a succsesful soldier and retains his skill and experience in the next loop.

Now the easiest thing to assume is that he would scale so long he is in the loop right? And that in a VS battle, Character B would have to fight against our main character with experience worth in the 1000's of years and that would make him really skilled right? But thats not the case, because you would have to assume multiple things for that to be true;

1. That the MC can grow endlessly
And
2. That the MC faced an endlessly growing threat for himself to grow.

What do we actually have here? A Medieval soldier that outskills other medieval soldiers. He does that for multiple dozens of loops. We dont know if he could growth through every loop in the first place, and we cant argue that he could utilisize said potential growth because nothing in that series gives us reasons to believe that he would grow through each loop.

"But Witch!" You might proclaim: "The example is unfair and heavily gimps Experience. In another more varied setting Experience would be worth more!" And thats exactly the problem. Experience in verse Example is obviously less worth than Experience in for example WH40k, but why? Because Warhammer has far more skill feats, a general far higher skill ceiling etc. Experience has no intrinsic value, because its value is directly tied to what was accomplished in that time.

You can be a thousand year old swordmaster, but you are still capped by what you actually accomplished in that time. The only time in which Experience MIGHT be a deciding factor would be when comparing 2 compareable characters. If both Characters can Analytically Predict 1 step and nothing more, the character with more experience is likely the better utiliser of said AnePre and is therefor slightly more skilled. But thats it.
 
I should probably really consider writing that Skill Manifesto, if no one beats me to it. There is still confusion in regards to fictional combat skill it seems.
 
Skill issue
Screen_Shot_2020-07-24_at_11.33.38_AM.jpg
 
Thats the problem though, its not quantifiable in the first place and therefore not a good feat. You cant tell me how much concrete growth he gets through that thingy (I dont know the concrete context so bear with me, I dont do Ben10) other than that he gains skill through it. Does he gain skill with every fight? How much does he get? If its a liniar mathematical formular, for how long did he get skill through that method? I will elaborate on that issue down on my Experience point, because they are pretty similar in their issues. But it basically boils down to "How big is the difference in skill from before he started to improve (Skill level starting point) to the end". And you will realize that it basically boils down to concrete skill feats in the end,


Experience is the most widespread "Skill-Fallacy" out there, for a good reason, but still a fallacy nonthenless. It makes sense intuitivly, but if you ponder over it longer, the more unrelated to skill it will be.

To illustrate this, lets assume a fictional verse. Its setting is the 100 Year War and our main character is a skilled warrior fighting in said war. To make it clear that he is a succesfull warior because of his skill, lets make him below average in physical stats. Now the gimmick of the series: Our main character is stuck in a timeloop and has to forever fight in the 100 Year War. No substential changes happen in the loop other than things caused by the maincharacter personally through different choices. In his first loop, he went from a recruit to a succsesful soldier and retains his skill and experience in the next loop.

Now the easiest thing to assume is that he would scale so long he is in the loop right? And that in a VS battle, Character B would have to fight against our main character with experience worth in the 1000's of years and that would make him really skilled right? But thats not the case, because you would have to assume multiple things for that to be true;

1. That the MC can grow endlessly
And
2. That the MC faced an endlessly growing threat for himself to grow.

What do we actually have here? A Medieval soldier that outskills other medieval soldiers. He does that for multiple dozens of loops. We dont know if he could growth through every loop in the first place, and we cant argue that he could utilisize said potential growth because nothing in that series gives us reasons to believe that he would grow through each loop.

"But Witch!" You might proclaim: "The example is unfair and heavily gimps Experience. In another more varied setting Experience would be worth more!" And thats exactly the problem. Experience in verse Example is obviously less worth than Experience in for example WH40k, but why? Because Warhammer has far more skill feats, a general far higher skill ceiling etc. Experience has no intrinsic value, because its value is directly tied to what was accomplished in that time.

You can be a thousand year old swordmaster, but you are still capped by what you actually accomplished in that time. The only time in which Experience MIGHT be a deciding factor would be when comparing 2 compareable characters. If both Characters can Analytically Predict 1 step and nothing more, the character with more experience is likely the better utiliser of said AnePre and is therefor slightly more skilled. But thats it.
That makes sense yeah, although in my defense I think Paradox’s nigh-omniscience would help with some of that.
 
My life has just become incredibly more easy now.

Okay, I have read through and yeah, common Venom W. The text could be expanded upon more, but its definitly a great starting point
I mean Bob and I literally went through the entire thing to see who wins in what category.
 
So, a question on a verse I'm indexing:

MC can kill 30 people who are all equal to him in everything (Physical strength, speed, etc...) and can easily kill him with a single sword attack to the attack, all while the MC is fatigued, covered with minor injuries, and blood-loss that made his reflexes dulled. These said 30 people can all clear rooms filled with traps while being blinded, can clear a maze while having both their sense of hearing and sight gone, and can kill three other people while having all their senses (with the exception of touch) dulled, although the three other opponents are also in the same condition.

^Should be noted the MC doesn't have any ability, just pure skill and shiz. That goes for his opponents as well. BTW all his opponents are martial artists as well.

So, how impressive is this feat, compared to shiz like mastering martial arts at a glance?
 
So, a question on a verse I'm indexing:

MC can kill 30 people who are all equal to him in everything (Physical strength, speed, etc...) and can easily kill him with a single sword attack to the attack, all while the MC is fatigued, covered with minor injuries, and blood-loss that made his reflexes dulled. These said 30 people can all clear rooms filled with traps while being blinded, can clear a maze while having both their sense of hearing and sight gone, and can kill three other people while having all their senses (with the exception of touch) dulled, although the three other opponents are also in the same condition.

^Should be noted the MC doesn't have any ability, just pure skill and shiz. That goes for his opponents as well. BTW all his opponents are martial artists as well.

So, how impressive is this feat, compared to shiz like mastering martial arts at a glance?
It would be a good combat feat/General skill feats and probably related to senses feats as well.

But its not compareable to mastering martial arts at a glance, because those are 2 entirely different categories of skill. You will have to compare it with other general combat feats instead.
 
Ah right, that blog. Hopefully someone makes a CRT (if needed) for that, since it seemed pretty good.

Anyways, thanks!
 
Just talk with Venom to collaborate on a better version or something.
I suck at working together with others when it comes to intellectual stuff. Im probably just doing my own thing in private and flash it at people if they ask.

Like a exhibitionist lmao.
 
Tower of God Protanist, 25th Baam
Also to set the record on Bam skill:

Bam is able to copy and instantly master moves after seeing them once, he can join/mix several hundreds of skill and join them to his style.

Could copy a Sword style, an style that by WoG normal ppl wont be able to use as good as Arie's family member, yet Bam could go toe with toe with one of the most skilled known member of the Arie family.
That style could bend space,and follow abstract lines of attack he could copy the entire style after he fought it only 3 times MIND YOU, only the third time he got the ability to make a sword, likely copied the first time, as all canon says that he copy and master at simple sight.

Before there was an statement that no one could copy the style but that was before the previous Word of God, it say that they could learn it, but not use it like them (Even Baam before getting spirit infused):


Analytical Capability

Since even way way back, he was able to see all the movements of an attack and find an opening
  • And later on, he managed to find an opening on Hoaqin attack(Hoaqin attack is basically the 3 slash version of Tsubame Gaeshi, but better, with more than 3 slashes and are able to change direction to reappear and disappear from every direction as well as following you.
He can adapt to his enemy pattern attack

Managed to read through Prime White's attack, making him predict his spatial bending slashes despite being way slower

Quickly figured the time difference between the Real Time and his reaction time after being affected by Aria's Broken watch ability, adjusting his own timing in response


Senses and Intuition

Posseses sort of a danger sense from sheer intuition

His senses are so good that he can sense several invisible attacks coming from different directions, UNTIL he straigforwardly learnt to SEE the invisible attacks by seeing it's flow on shinsu(air)


Instincts

Reacts instinctively in a situation where even instant decision is impossible, blocking the attack, which otherwise should have killed him

Moves instinctively from a totally soundless and invisible attacks he wasn't even aware of



  • Can copy entire styles/and skill and master them instantly.
  • Can mix hundreds of skills and add them to his own style.
  • Can adapt to his enemy attack pattern and outgrow them.
  • Instinctive reaction towards things that he isn't aware of or that should've killed him.
  • Danger sense from Intuition
  • His senses which are innate of him are capable of sensing invisible attacks.
  • Able to find openings and figure time difference and act on behalf caused by hax
 
Tower of God Protanist, 25th Baam
Also to set the record on Bam skill:

Bam is able to copy and instantly master moves after seeing them once, he can join/mix several hundreds of skill and join them to his style.

Could copy a Sword style, an style that by WoG normal ppl wont be able to use as good as Arie's family member, yet Bam could go toe with toe with one of the most skilled known member of the Arie family.

That style could bend space,and follow abstract lines of attack he could copy the entire style after he fought it only 3 times MIND YOU, only the third time he got the ability to make a sword, likely copied the first time, as all canon says that he copy and master at simple sight.

Before there was an statement that no one could copy the style but that was before the previous Word of God, it say that they could learn it, but not use it like them (Even Baam before getting spirit infused):



Analytical Capability

Since even way way back, he was able to see all the movements of an attack and find an opening
  • And later on, he managed to find an opening on Hoaqin attack(Hoaqin attack is basically the 3 slash version of Tsubame Gaeshi, but better, with more than 3 slashes and are able to change direction to reappear and disappear from every direction as well as following you.
He can adapt to his enemy pattern attack

Managed to read through Prime White's attack, making him predict his spatial bending slashes despite being way slower

Quickly figured the time difference between the Real Time and his reaction time after being affected by Aria's Broken watch ability, adjusting his own timing in response


Senses and Intuition

Posseses sort of a danger sense from sheer intuition

His senses are so good that he can sense several invisible attacks coming from different directions, UNTIL he straigforwardly learnt to SEE the invisible attacks by seeing it's flow on shinsu(air)


Instincts

Reacts instinctively in a situation where even instant decision is impossible, blocking the attack, which otherwise should have killed him

Moves instinctively from a totally soundless and invisible attacks he wasn't even aware of



  • Can copy entire styles/and skill and master them instantly.
  • Can mix hundreds of skills and add them to his own style.
  • Can adapt to his enemy attack pattern and outgrow them.
  • Instinctive reaction towards things that he isn't aware of or that should've killed him.
  • Danger sense from Intuition
  • His senses which are innate of him are capable of sensing invisible attacks.
  • Able to find openings and figure time difference and act on behalf caused by hax
Which spot? And which category are you proposing Baam?
 
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