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VSBW Hax Tier List/Hax discussion

Brogeefrong said:
Reflection is prolly fine somewhere in high, Adaption should be somewhere in Low, and Alt Future Display could reach Low Godly
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Reflection can be broken asf if given context

Same with adaption

Alt future display isn't that broken characters can just show alt future of others not alter it or anything so high is ok for it
 
Brogeefrong said:
They would all prolly be in Low Godly

I dont think in a vacuum it stacks up to alot of the uninteractable degrees of the High Godly tiers
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Immersion and CM potency depend on the verse.

Immersion can be used to enter other forms of reality(fiction, dreams, video games) or can be used to trap someone there.
sealing someone inside a cartoon sounds very OP to me.

CM1 can be something like an absolute idea by an omnipotent being that govern creation(ideas, laws of math and physics, forms of existence) so it varies.

(nice profile picture)
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Immersion and CM potency depend on the verse.

Immersion can be used to enter other forms of reality(fiction, dreams, video games) or can be used to trap someone there.
sealing someone inside a cartoon sounds very OP to me.
Click to expand...
Immersion is alot more specifc
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
CM1 can be something like an absolute idea by an omnipotent being that govern creation(ideas, laws of math and physics, forms of existence) so it varies.
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then id prolly bump cm and info to the same level as plot manip but still lower
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
(nice profile picture)
Click to expand...
thank you sir
 
Brogeefrong said:
Immersion is alot more specifc
Click to expand...
you sure?
Immersion is an ability which allows one to cross the boundary between fiction and reality and enter the imaginary locations depicted in books, paintings, movies etc. The places and time periods accessed through this ability are conceptual, as in they do not exist in reality, but users of this ability can still interact with and explore them like they can any place in the real world.

Examples of Immersion would be jumping through paintings into the worlds displayed on them, entering a book and becoming part of the story, and so on. Users can use this ability to retrieve weapons or other useful tools from fiction, evade attacks by entering these other fictional worlds, or use them to BFR or seal opponents. In many cases, users often need a medium that displays their target location as a gateway.
Click to expand...
It depend on the mechanism(varies?).
Brogeefrong said:
then id prolly bump cm and info to the same level as plot manip but still lower
Click to expand...
CM2 is like info type 2 except CM2 change and the govern the world indirectly. CM1 us literally a god hax it is the manipulation of ideas that govern reality while being higher than reality and everything related like the plot or
duality: by being the complet opposite of another concept (life/death, existence/nonexistence)
and sometimes it has a R>F relation with everything below.
so it also varies.
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
you sure?

It depend on the mechanism(varies?).
Click to expand...
Tbh with all the varying mechanics idk where it would go
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
CM2 is like info type 2 except CM2 change and the govern the world indirectly. CM1 us literally a god hax it is the manipulation of ideas that govern reality while being higher than reality and everything related like the plot or
duality: by being the complet opposite of another concept (life/death, existence/nonexistence)
and sometimes it has a R>F relation with everything below.
so it also varies.
Click to expand...
Info type 2 is that it builds reality, meaning it is also independent like CM1 as both are not depended on reality itself,
 
Brogeefrong said:
Tbh with all the varying mechanics idk where it would go
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High-Godly?
sometimes it transcend fiction.
Brogeefrong said:
Info type 2 is that it builds reality, meaning it is also independent like CM1 as both are not depended on reality itself,
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No, info type 2 is the direct information of reality, it is reality itself as 1 and 0.
Concept type 2 is more abstract and it's indirectly governing reality.
Concept type 1 is completly independent from reality(laws, concepts type 2, info type 2).
CM1>Laws and CM2≥Info type 2≥reality warping
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
High-Godly?
sometimes it transcend fiction.
Click to expand...
Sometimes but i'm not putting everything at its highest level unless there are different types or stuff like NPI or Dura Negation would also be High Godly
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
No, info type 2 is the direct information of reality, it is reality itself as 1 and 0.
Concept type 2 is more abstract and it's indirectly governing reality.
Concept type 1 is completly independent from reality(laws, concepts type 2, info type 2).
CM1>Laws and CM2≥Info type 2≥reality warping
Click to expand...
Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality.
Type 2 manipulates what builds reality, building reality means it is not depended on reality
 
Brogeefrong said:
Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality.
Type 2 manipulates what builds reality, building reality means it is not depended on reality
Click to expand...
It is not dependent or independent but reality itself as information.
People who precieve or manipulate the reality as 1 and 0, like Neo from The Matrix.
This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.
Click to expand...
think of it as a reality hacker.

while CM is:
However, through this power, one can change the universe's fundamental principles on the highest level.

Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object linked to it in the same way the concept itself was changed.
Click to expand...
even CM type 2 is higher:
This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.
Click to expand...
It work by changing a concept directly and reality will be affected by this. Like a "domino effect".
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
It is not dependent or independent but reality itself as information.
People who precieve or manipulate the reality as 1 and 0, like Neo from The Matrix.

think of it as a reality hacker.

while CM is:
Click to expand...
Information can also change the fundamental principle's of reality, as if lets say the information color red was turned into blue, all things red would become blue as the information that makes up red has been changed
 
Brogeefrong said:
Information can also change the fundamental principle's of reality, as if lets say the information color red was turned into blue, all things red would become blue as the information that makes up red has been changed
Click to expand...
Here you're talking about concept of red and blue, that would be CM type 2.

info type 2 will be by changing everything red manually instead of just targetting the concept itself.
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Here you're talking about concept of red and blue, that would be CM type 2.
Click to expand...
Loose example, things that are fundamental/independent can also be changed by their information
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
info type 2 will be by changing everything red manually instead of just targetting the concept itself.
Click to expand...
What I mean by this is the information of X, which Y is dependent on X, when X is changed Y is also changed
 
Brogeefrong said:
Loose example, things that are fundamental can also be changed by their information
Click to expand...
info type 2 itself is what fundamental and what make up reality, but not a concept.
Brogeefrong said:
What I mean by this is the information of X, which Y is dependent on X, when X is changed Y is also changed
Click to expand...
yeah, this is CM2.

Look
2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.
Click to expand...
you got it?
Concept type 2 is like info type 2 but more abstract.
 
Brogeefrong said:
Concepts can be considered as information, as they are fundamental building blocks of reality
Click to expand...
That's 1 and 0 I mentioned before and not concepts

concept are fundamental to reality but they are abstract and not made from it(1and0).
Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly. However, through this power, one can change the universe's fundamental principles on the highest level.
Click to expand...
CM 2: manipulate reality indirectly.
info type 2: manipulate reality directly.
 
But couldnt Information still interact with something abstract, or does it need proof that a character could interact with something abstract first
 
Brogeefrong said:
Ill lower info type 2 lower into High Godly or around top Mid Godly along side CM2 then
Click to expand...
Godly: CM1(high), CM2(mid), Info type 2(mid or low)

Note: some haxes are in the wrong tier.
Brogeefrong said:
But couldnt Information still interact with something abstract, or does it need proof that a character could interact with something abstract first
Click to expand...
It depend on the verse but mostly it can't go higher than reality.

CM1>CM2≥info type 2
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Godly: CM1(high), CM2(mid), Info type 2(mid or low)

Note: some haxes are in the wrong tier.
Click to expand...
Alot of them are based on the opinion i got here
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
It depend on the verse but mostly it can't go higher than reality.

CM1>CM2≥info type 2
Click to expand...
If you mean by higher D, Concepts by default they aren't higher dimensional
If you mean by being on a higher order, Info Type 2 would be above, as Cm2 are still bounded by their reality and Information would be above the reality as it builds it
 
Brogeefrong said:
If you mean by higher D, Concepts by default they aren't higher dimensional
If you mean by being on a higher order, Info Type 2 would be above.
Click to expand...
No, I mean higher as deeper and more fundamental to reality, a character can have a concept without info type 2 .
Info type 2 is reality itself, any reality warper can get this as long he see the world as information.
Brogeefrong said:
as Cm2 are still bounded by their reality and Information would be above the reality as it builds it
Click to expand...
reality doesn't include concepts, otherwise any reality warper will get CM, you can check for youself.

Ex: if atoms are info type 2 then CM will be quantum string.
 
acausality type4>type 3

while type 3 can be dealt with by having 2-B or 2-A range, type 4 sometimes transcend the system(CM, Laws, info, reality...) making it unaffected by any hax, it's like a limited version of type 5.
 
About CM type 2 and info type 2: I have been looking and it appear that it depend on the verse, so just put them in the same spot.
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
acausality type4>type 3

while type 3 can be dealt with by having 2-B or 2-A range, type 4 sometimes transcend the system(CM, Laws, info, reality...) making it unaffected by any hax, it's like a limited version of type 5.
Click to expand...
The Type 3 example is tier dependent, and the example for Type 4 is Type 5
 
probability manipulation, fate manipulation, law manipulation, chaos manipulation, causality manipulation, void manipulation, quantum manipulation, physics manipulation, death manipulation should be somewhere on this list (idk exactly where tho)
 
Wishfulite said:
probability manipulation, fate manipulation, law manipulation, chaos manipulation, causality manipulation, void manipulation, quantum manipulation, physics manipulation, death manipulation should be somewhere on this list (idk exactly where tho)
Click to expand...
Most if not all would be godly
 
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