(Votes Needed) Major AP and Speed Revisions DxD

[MasqueTLDF]

I mean, we can’t settle on arbitrary numbers like 3x or 5x for official profiles ratings. It’s a bit odd and headcanon territory.

It’s either Boost and Divide are accepted or not. All or nothing. That’s the point of the blog.

Yeah because the current accepted usage of it is really outdated and weird. (The ability is valid in versus matches but not in scaling.)

Cool yet there’s no numbers being used and we don’t wanna be abusing multipliers to the point we have to scrap it off again so we have to propose something so it ain’t an end of discussion and

This is like, factually incorrect in almost every way though. Stacking of multipliers is perfectly fine ("If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.
In regards to multiplier stacking one should also pay attention to whether a multiplier applies to the strength of the character without the other multipliers applied or with the other multipliers already applied.")
as long as there're no major inconsistencies. Also, the blogs and statements from the series are nothing but numbers lol

We can’t even find a middle ground? I was sure we could propose something

Please do not consider this as an insult in any way, just an analogy. So, imagine there's a guy who has many pages of research about human anatomy. All of his research having photographic evidence to back it up. And he states that most living humans have two hands based on his research. Then some other random guy states that they actually have 10 hands on average without providing evidence. Who's right? Do we just, find a middle ground? Would it then be more correct to say that on average, they actually have 6 hands (the middle number)? No, the one that is correct is the one with uncontested evidence.

U are trying to mask the rudeness by again saying “end of discussion” like u can tell someone what to do, don’t forget all u got is a title and nothing more. It’s said to double “exponentially” meaning something of an even greater magnitude this isn’t hard to see here. If we can’t even propose anything then it’s either we take what was said or not

So no there is no end of discussion

Two wrongs don't make a right, if someone bothers you, tell them or leave, don't respond with rudeness. And saying "end of discussion" isn't rude, it's just a common phrase, one that should've been used awhile ago considering that the opposing side of this argument (not just you) has repeatedly made claims without evidence, statements that indicate a general lack of knowledge/remembrance on the topic, or just claims that factually are incorrect. Like, the multiply=/=increase, double doesn't indicate a number, and others. Although this won't stop me from discussing these topics, I'd prefer that if I had to discuss these topics with a non staff member, they'd at least be able to provide an argument which is constructive for both parties. And me and many others have voiced that we'd like to get staff to evaluate the thread and join the discussion, it's perfectly reasonable that after over a week of relatively pointless arguments and an absence of staff, we'd want to wrap up the thread.

It is not very difficult to realize that if Issei uses boost several times the increase would be like this: x2→x4→x6

Actually, it would be Starting Point(x2->x4->x8->x16->etc)

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Don't want to be that guy but try not to double+ post if you can help it.

 

[BlackeJan]

Two wrongs don't make a right

The mere fact u tell me this but not the person who was starting this in the first place says a lot. Point of the matter is not abusing the multiple especially with something along the line of “exponentially” which is again beyond anything of 2x and potentially creating inconsistencies

Since we don’t want to find a middle ground of such then either we use boost multiplier or not and let’s stop trying to ignore the “exponentially” part

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The mere fact u tell me this but not the person who was starting this in the first place says a lot.

Nobody "started" anything, from my pov, you were the one who was initially confrontational and even if what Curry said was rude, what you said to her is an unnecessary, drastic escalation.

Point of the matter is not abusing the multiple especially with something along the line of “exponentially” which is again beyond anything of 2x and potentially creating inconsistencies

Nobody's abusing multipliers and "exponentially" implies the use of an exponent which is backed up by the "continuous doubling" statements, not just some random increase. The exponential statement refers to the Boost Multipliers (specifically the total multiplier deduced by the formula 2^x with x being the number of boosts), which would mean that the mathematic definition is correct in this context. And you misinterpreting the meaning of the word and ignoring the context of the ability doesn't create any inconsistencies.

Since we don’t want to find a middle ground of such then either we use boost multiplier or not and let’s stop trying to ignore the “exponentially” part

Bro, there is no middle ground, it's not a matter where that's even possible. Nobody's ignoring it? I'm the one who brought it up in the first place. Anyway, can we please continue this discussion when staff are present? Like I told @Digital_Franz before, I don't enjoy circular discussions, as things are, nothing will progress and the thread will become clogged which will make it harder for staff to evaluate.

 

[BlackeJan]

Nobody "started" anything, from my pov, you were the one who was initially confrontational and even if what Curry said was rude, what you said to her is an unnecessary, drastic escalation.

I just showed a pic of me saying how rude she was being so again the mere fact u are taking her side says a lot

And you misinterpreting the meaning of the word and ignoring the context of the ability doesn't create any inconsistencies.

Nope not ignoring anything. U just want to be right cause u want the upgrade to go through

before, I don't enjoy circular discussions, as things are, nothing will progress and the thread will become clogged which will make it harder for staff to evaluate.

u are right we are just wasting time here. The fact that I see is most disagreeing with light speed and like 2 being ok or neutral unless it creates inconsistencies

Boost multiplier I only see a bit more disagreeing and being neutral vs agreeing unless they changed their stance

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I just showed a pic of me saying how rude she was being so again the mere fact u are taking her side says a lot

Uh, you didn't show any pic. And again, I'm not taking her side, I'm just calling out that you were the one who is in the wrong and starting problems in my thread. I'd like for this community to remain a friendly place, and I think insulting others like this is an immature response to something which was never a big deal. And pray tell, what does me "taking her side" say about me?

Nope not ignoring anything. U just want to be right cause u want the upgrade to go through

I mean, you ignored these statements from the blog which directly support my use of the mathematic definition of the word "exponentially". And attacking my character as a counter to my claim instead of refuting the claim with evidence isn't very mature either and is also a fallacy, now, I won't say that any of your arguments are incorrect due to the presence of fallacies, however you're definitely arguing your point in an incorrect manner. Also, I don't just want to be right so my favorite verses get better tiers, I argue for what I believe to be correct, regardless of whether it negatively or positively impacts the ratings of characters. If I was simply being biased, I wouldn't ask multiple times to be corrected in case I make any mistakes like I did in the OP.

u are right we are just wasting time here. The fact that I see is most disagreeing with light speed and like 2 being ok or neutral unless it creates inconsistencies

Boost multiplier I only see a bit more disagreeing and being neutral vs agreeing unless they changed their stance

Popularity isn't exactly a valid argument (another fallacy), especially when the people disagreeing haven't provided a valid argument with the only prominent ones being outlined by me earlier.

Just to simplify things:
Arguments against:
AP: Inconsistent, numbers are too large, exponential increase doesn't mean increase using an exponent.
Speed: Numbers are too large, the exact words "doubling speed" are never used, inconsistent, increase=/=multiply.

Anyway, regardless of our differences, I hope you have a nice day and try to be more kind to your peers.

 

[BlackeJan]

Uh, you didn't show any pic. And again, I'm not taking her side, I'm just calling out that you were the one who is in the wrong and starting problems in my thread

Ignoring the person who was obviously being rude says a lot and I meant to put “you” but autocorrect correct got in the way. It was obvious on what she was doing

people disagreeing haven't provided a valid argument with the only prominent ones being outlined by me earlier.

so those that disagreed especially the staff haven’t provided anything? yeah ok this is just u wanting upgrades is what I’m seeing

I hope you have a nice day and try to be more kind to your peers.

now u are purposely making me out at the bad guy when it was obvious how Curry was acting towards me. I could just point out how u are only defending her cause she agrees with your points. Just how it was last time, masking your rudeness with politeness and u are making it obvious

Popularity isn't exactly a valid argument (another fallacy)

sucks that’s how it been for awhile regarding how many people agree vs disagreeing

 

[BlackeJan]

What other staff can we get? cause it seems more to disgree and neutral vs agreeing but we need more staff

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Ignoring the person who was obviously being rude says a lot and I meant to put “you” but autocorrect correct got in the way. It was obvious on what she was doing

But she didn't say/do anything rude.

so those that disagreed especially the staff haven’t provided anything? yeah ok this is just u wanting upgrades is what I’m seeing

No VSBW Staff have disagreed, and the non staff who have haven't provided anything meaningful, like I said before, their arguments didn't really amount to much. (Not a diss to them personally, rather the lackluster arguments) Your use of fallacious arguments don't really help your case, calling someone's character into question and using that as an argument is pretty disheartening. I'd appreciate if you could not make remarks of that sort any further, thank you.

now u are purposely making me out at the bad guy when it was obvious how Curry was acting towards me. I could just point out how u are only defending her cause she agrees with your points. Just how it was last time, masking your rudeness with politeness and u are making it obvious

Um, no? I was just asking you to be kinder and to have a nice day, regardless of what goes on on VSBW, I genuinely hope everyone here is happy. And I'm sorry if you perceive me as being rude, that's definitely not my intent. I like to foster a warm environment. And I've disagreed with people who agreed with me before and even if i hadn't, this is a fallacious argument. And I'd rather not bring up past threads like I mentioned earlier, and I don't recall doing that, and I'm pretty sure that case was handled in the RVR. If you'd like to report anything in this thread, feel free to, but please keep in mind that I will share my side of the story as well in response.

Actually, it would be Starting Point(x2->x4->x8->x16->etc)

Example 1

Erm, I'm almost sure he's used light magic before but he's never produced light spears.



Eh, I disagree.

Example 2 and 3

sucks that’s how it been for awhile regarding how many people agree vs disagreeing

Not really, things like that only apply to staff votes, and of course, they'd need to provide an acceptable argument as well.

What other staff can we get? cause it seems more to disgree and neutral vs agreeing but we need more staff

No, I outlined the votes on the OP, more members agree. And we could potentially get any staff member, however I doubt that many will actually give a reasonable opinion, if an opinion at all. I've left a message on most Admin/Thread Mod MWs, @ActuallySpaceMan42 said they'd comment soon. I've also advertised this thread on the CRPT and on my wall on the wiki. I'd say it's best to let it grow naturally right now, I've done all that I can reasonably do.

And like I said before, I still hope your day goes well.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Well it's time for me to take stock of this thread.
I reread the sandbox again and there I said to myself: what the hell is this?

I don't know if you realize this but Issei has FTL because he dodged a spear of light? The scene occurs in episode 5 of season 1 at 13:32. She threw the spear at him in a panic and he saw the arrow coming at him. I don't think that can even be calculated at Relativistic+. Also what says that this arrow was going at the speed of light? It was going in a movement similar to that of lightning, that is to say there were oscillations. It was also dissipated by Issei's Sacred Gear. It doesn't have the properties of light at all.

Now for multiplication, once again, no rule says that multiplying an energy no matter if it is UES, multiplies the speed. Just bring me an example. A Naruto blog was used as an example just so I can see that it is said that chakra increases physical abilities just like demonic energy in DxD. The best example that comes to mind is Dragon Ball. The Kaioken and the Super Saiyan have been directly said to multiply the speed. For the other verses that I know, it has been directly said that all physical stats are multiplied. Here we have what: the power is multiplied and the speed is increased. No statement in the entire work supports the fact that the speed is multiplied. It is clearly specified that the speed is increased not multiplied. On this wiki I hope at the very least that the staff does not accept fallacious assumptions otherwise many verse multipliers would not have been rejected. All this is just a circus to upgrade the speed of the verse.

 

[Vietthai96]

The reason DB multiplier was accepted for speed is because Ki being UES and multiple statements and feats prove that increases Ki increases all physical stats, including speed

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Well it's time for me to take stock of this thread.
I reread the sandbox again and there I said to myself: what the hell is this?

I don't know if you realize this but Issei has FTL because he dodged a spear of light? The scene occurs in episode 5 of season 1 at 13:32. She threw the spear at him in a panic and he saw the arrow coming at him. I don't think that can even be calculated at Relativist+. Also what says that this arrow was going at the speed of light? It was going in a movement similar to that of lightning, that is to say there were oscillations.

We've covered this before, we only use DxD's anime if the moment's nearly 1-1 with the LN or doesn't contradict the LN. And this fight clearly was not.

It was also pushed back by Issei's Sacred Gear. It doesn't have the properties of light at all.

Raynare's Light has properties of real light, reflecting off of metal is a property of real light. And the source you're using can't be used.

Now for multiplication, once again, no rule says that multiplying an energy no matter if it is UES, multiplies the speed. Just bring me an example. A Naruto blog was used as an example just so I can see that it is said that chakra increases physical abilities just like demonic energy in DxD. The best example that comes to mind is Dragon Ball.

Sure, here are some examples.

The Kaioken and the Super Saiyan have been directly said to multiply the speed.

So have Boosts.

For the other verses that I know, it has been directly said that all physical stats are multiplied. Here we have what: the power is multiplied and the speed is increased. No statement in the entire work supports the fact that the speed is multiplied.

Power in DxD is all physical stats.

It is clearly specified that the speed is increased not multiplied.

There's no difference.

On this wiki I hope at the very least that the staff does not accept fallacious assumptions otherwise many verse multipliers would not have been rejected. All this is just a circus to upgrade the speed of the verse.

I'm not using fallacious assumptions at all. And I don't appreciate the circus comment.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The reason DB multiplier was accepted for speed is because Ki being UES and multiple statements and feats prove that increases Ki increases all physical stats, including speed

Powers in DxD also have those kinds of statements/feats which is why Boosts double speed.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

Well it's time for me to take stock of this thread.
I reread the sandbox again and there I said to myself: what the hell is this?

I don't know if you realize this but Issei has FTL because he dodged a spear of light? The scene occurs in episode 5 of season 1 at 13:32. She threw the spear at him in a panic and he saw the arrow coming at him. I don't think that can even be calculated at Relativistic+. Also what says that this arrow was going at the speed of light? It was going in a movement similar to that of lightning, that is to say there were oscillations. It was also dissipated by Issei's Sacred Gear. It doesn't have the properties of light at all.

First: why do you use a different timeline (anime) to disprove the novels? They even have different feats and I remind you that in the manga it is shown differently? It is even described differently in the novels.

Now for multiplication, once again, no rule says that multiplying an energy no matter if it is UES, multiplies the speed. Just bring me an example. A Naruto blog was used as an example just so I can see that it is said that chakra increases physical abilities just like demonic energy in DxD. The best example that comes to mind is Dragon Ball. The Kaioken and the Super Saiyan have been directly said to multiply the speed. For the other verses that I know, it has been directly said that all physical stats are multiplied. Here we have what: the power is multiplied and the speed is increased. No statement in the entire work supports the fact that the speed is multiplied. It is clearly specified that the speed is increased not multiplied. On this wiki I hope at the very least that the staff does not accept fallacious assumptions otherwise many verse multipliers would not have been rejected. All this is just a circus to upgrade the speed of the verse.

I'm quite sure that the necessary tests for multipliers have already been shown and Maques have already answered all of that.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

First: why do you use a different timeline (anime) to disprove the novels? They even have different feats and I remind you that in the manga it is shown differently? It is even described differently in the novels.

Although this instance in the manga isn't exactly the same as the LN, it is vastly more accurate.
Edit: I'll try to update the vote count. If you agree, please type "agree" at some point. Same with "Disagree" but say what exactly you disagree with so I can mark it down.

 

[Digital_Franz]

We've covered this before, we only use DxD's anime if the moment's nearly 1-1 with the LN or doesn't contradict the LN. And this fight clearly was not.

The scene that animates it is the one that occurs in the LN where it is at least possible to dodge a SoL attack that is not FTL.

Raynare's Light has properties of real light, reflecting off of metal is a property of real light. And the source you're using can't be used.

This is not what is shown in the anime and the anime serves as material to support feats.

Sure, here are some examples.

Bad choice. For chakra it says it increases speed, not doubles it. For KI there are multiple statements that say speed is multiplied, something you don't have in DxD. Same goes for the other two. Stop kidding yourself.

So have Boosts.

Which multiplies power and not speed.

Power in DxD is all physical stats.

False. It increases physical stats but doubling energy doesn't double all stats. You have to read DB's blog.

There's no difference.

Can you hear yourself talking? Do 4+1 and 4×2.

I'm not using fallacious assumptions at all. And I don't appreciate the circus comment.

It's just a fact.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Powers in DxD also have those kinds of statements/feats which is why Boosts double speed.

Give a single one where it says the speed is doubled. Since what I see is it has increased.

 

[Digital_Franz]

First: why do you use a different timeline (anime) to disprove the novels? They even have different feats and I remind you that in the manga it is shown differently? It is even described differently in the novels.

Know that the novel pushes to make too many assumptions so if the anime comes out and it has the same scenes then it is used even if at a certain level the story differs.

I'm quite sure that the necessary tests for multipliers have already been shown and Maques have already answered all of that.

There is nothing that says that the speed is multiplied. All that is said is that it is increased and he says that it is multiplied is the most logical conclusion.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The reason DB multiplier was accepted for speed is because Ki being UES and multiple statements and feats prove that increases Ki increases all physical stats, including speed

Yes I did specify that. Because I know some people always want to use DB as their reference for multipliers when DB has multiple statements and they don't even bother to read them. Literally the first scan on the Kaioken says how even the speed is multiplied.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Sure, here are some examples.

And either you didn't read what DDM said or you didn't understand. DDM said that it's rarely the case and took the perfect example that is DB. Which I did. DB has multiple statements where speed is said to be multiplied while DxD only has statements where speed is said to be increased. The difference between the two terms. You can't tell me that + and × are the same.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The scene that animates it is the one that occurs in the LN where it is at least possible to dodge a SoL attack that is not FTL.

Not sure what you're exactly trying to say here but it doesn't matter if the same scene exists in both materials, the point is that the details and representation of those scenes are very different.

This is not what is shown in the anime and the anime serves as material to support feats.

It is what's shown in the source material, and like I've outlined many times before, the anime and manga can only be used if they consistently depict the scene they are adapting.

Bad choice. For chakra it says it increases speed, not doubles it. For KI there are multiple statements that say speed is multiplied, something you don't have in DxD. Same goes for the other two. Stop kidding yourself.

Again, I don't appreciate the rude comments, if you do this again, I won't be as willing to respond to your replies (and maybe make a report if it escalates further). I never stated doubling for chakra, the point was that an numerical increase in chakra would result in a proportionate increase for the other stats because of the UES which I proved to be able to be applied. This being depicted in the same way for Ki in DB, that's just how UES work according to what I've shown.

Which multiplies power and not speed.

Power is speed in DxD.

False. It increases physical stats but doubling energy doesn't double all stats. You have to read DB's blog.

DB's blogs don't dictate the power systems of DxD, I only used their explanation of a UES to show that it is possible to scale speed through it.

Can you hear yourself talking? Do 4+1 and 4×2.

Technically, no. I don't think you were asking literally but I though I'd give a serious response regardless. I'm not talking, I am typing, and I can't hear something that I'm not doing. As for your examples, that's completely different. If you increase 4 by 4 (4+4), it'd be the same as multiplying 4 by 2 (4x2). Therefore, Multiplying and Increasing are the same as long as the numbers are consistent.

It's just a fact.

Calling an insult you made a "fact" is honestly pretty rude, can we all please stay respectful toward each other? Like I said earlier, I really don't want things to escalate.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Not sure what you're exactly trying to say here but it doesn't matter if the same scene exists in both materials, the point is that the details and representation of those scenes are very different.

Anime takes priority. That's how it works. If there's a visual medium it's used.

It is what's shown in the source material, and like I've outlined many times before, the anime and manga can only be used if they consistently depict the scene they are adapting.

False. If the scenes exist in the source material then it's automatically used otherwise it's left out. The anime proves that it's not real light.

Again, I don't appreciate the rude comments, if you do this again, I won't be as willing to respond to your replies (and maybe make a report if it escalates further). I never stated doubling for chakra, the point was that an numerical increase in chakra would result in a proportionate increase for the other stats because of the UES which I proved to be able to be applied. This being depicted in the same way for Ki in DB, that's just how UES work according to what I've shown.

Can you tell me what's rude? Let you know that you used the wrong examples? It's undeniable that everything has increased but not in the same way. If I consider what you're saying there Naruto would have a MFTL+ speed if his power increased in the same way as his speed.

Power is speed in DxD.

There is no denying that it increases speed.

DB's blogs don't dictate the power systems of DxD, I only used their explanation of a UES to show that it is possible to scale speed through it.

I show you how it works. The direction you are taking is completely wrong. And once again I tell you that DB for being accepted this way has multiple statements where it is said that the speed is multiplied. Literally the first scan on the Kaioken. DxD does not have that so does not qualify. As simple as that.

Technically, no. I don't think you were asking literally but I though I'd give a serious response regardless. I'm not talking, I am typing, and I can't hear something that I'm not doing. As for your examples, that's completely different. If you increase 4 by 4 (4+4), it'd be the same as multiplying 4 by 2 (4x2). Therefore, Multiplying and Increasing are the same as long as the numbers are consistent.

Ah now you want to play on words? You're going to do it alone. Besides who tells you then that it's by 4 that it increased? Just a assumption to upgrade the verse. Completely fallacious.

Calling an insult you made a "fact" is honestly pretty rude, can we all please stay respectful toward each other? Like I said earlier, I really don't want things to escalate.

I don't intend to escalate things on this forum. I've always been peaceful and I have better things to do to tackle this kind of thing.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Give a single one where it says the speed is doubled. Since what I see is it has increased.

Here, one easy example.

Know that the novel pushes to make too many assumptions so if the anime comes out and it has the same scenes then it is used even if at a certain level the story differs.

Absolutely not, if the story differs, it can not be used.

There is nothing that says that the speed is multiplied. All that is said is that it is increased and he says that it is multiplied is the most logical conclusion.

Yes I did specify that. Because I know some people always want to use DB as their reference for multipliers when DB has multiple statements and they don't even bother to read them. Literally the first scan on the Kaioken says how even the speed is multiplied.

I did read what I sent, if I hadn't, I wouldn't've sent it.

And either you didn't read what DDM said or you didn't understand.

I did read and understand.

DDM said that it's rarely the case

It being rare isn't a point against it, that'd just make DxD an exception.

and took the perfect example that is DB. Which I did. DB has multiple statements where speed is said to be multiplied while DxD only has statements where speed is said to be increased. The difference between the two terms. You can't tell me that + and × are the same.

And DxD has dozens of statements of Power (Physical and Magical Stats) being multiplied. Multiply and Increase aren't very different as I've proved multiple times before, + and x are the same depending on how they're used. If you double 2, you add 2 making it an increase of two but still a double. If you double 2, you can multiply 2 by 2, it's still a double. And as I've stated many times before, if you really want to settle this discussion, ask a staff member to evaluate the thread and give their opinion on who's correct.

 

[Vietthai96]

Using some blogs as inspiration and references is fine, just don't equalize them to the verse you arguing like they are all the same, that all i want to say (at least as a DB supporter), now i'm busy with other projects bruhhhhhh, i swear i'm never going to touch Boost again, it killing my head

 

[Digital_Franz]

Here, one easy example.

Literally you are leading me in circles. These are the same examples. More power means more speed of course. I ask you for a scan like DB where it says the speed is doubled. All I see is the power is doubled and the speed increased.

Absolutely not, if the story differs, it can not be used.

If the scenes are the same it is used. If the scenes are not the same then there is no reason to use. Except that for the anime the scene is the same.

I did read what I sent, if I hadn't, I wouldn't've sent it.

Read again.

I did read and understand.

Nope.

It being rare isn't a point against it, that'd just make DxD an exception.

Exception when the conditions are met. Except you don't have a single statement that says the speed is doubled.

And DxD has dozens of statements of Power (Physical and Magical Stats) being multiplied. Multiply and Increase aren't very different as I've proved multiple times before, + and x are the same depending on how they're used. If you double 2, you add 2 making it an increase of two but still a double. If you double 2, you can multiply 2 by 2, it's still a double. And as I've stated many times before, if you really want to settle this discussion, ask a staff member to evaluate the thread and give their opinion on who's correct.

Energy and physical power are doubled but not speed. Except you already take arbitrary values that suit you for the addition, something that is not done on this wiki. I will ask Mr. Bambu if he can help.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Using some blogs as inspiration and references is fine, just don't equalize them to the verse you arguing like they are all the same, that all i want to say (at least as a DB supporter), now i'm busy with other projects bruhhhhhh, i swear i'm never going to touch Boost again, it killing my head

Facts.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Anime takes priority. That's how it works. If there's a visual medium it's used.

False. If the scenes exist in the source material then it's automatically used otherwise it's left out. The anime proves that it's not real light.

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.
In addition a tertiary canon will be allowed. The tertiary canon consists of official adaptations not overseen by the author, which do not modify or contradict source material. When other source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that contradict the tertiary canon in the depiction of the feat, the others take precedence. And here as well, if the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should by judging the feat through primary or secondary canon a different result be reached than for tertiary canon the result of primary or secondary canon will have priority.

Can you tell me what's rude? Let you know that you used the wrong examples?

"Bad choice. For chakra it says it increases speed, not doubles it. For KI there are multiple statements that say speed is multiplied, something you don't have in DxD. Same goes for the other two. Stop kidding yourself." "And either you didn't read what DDM said or you didn't understand." "Yes I did specify that. Because I know some people always want to use DB as their reference for multipliers when DB has multiple statements and they don't even bother to read them. Literally the first scan on the Kaioken says how even the speed is multiplied." "All this is just a circus to upgrade the speed of the verse." "I reread the sandbox again and there I said to myself: what the hell is this?" "According to your judgment because you just have your idea in mind that you don't want to change."

It's undeniable that everything has increased but not in the same way. If I consider what you're saying there Naruto would have a MFTL+ speed if his power increased in the same way as his speed.

I disagree with the Naruto claim, not all increases apply, just stated multipliers.

There is no denying that it increases speed.

I show you how it works. The direction you are taking is completely wrong. And once again I tell you that DB for being accepted this way has multiple statements where it is said that the speed is multiplied. Literally the first scan on the Kaioken. DxD does not have that so does not qualify. As simple as that.

I believe that my direction is correct.

Ah now you want to play on words? You're going to do it alone.

I'm not playing at all, I was just answering your question.

Besides who tells you then that it's by 4 that it increased? Just a guess to upgrade the verse. Completely fallacious.

If you double something, you increase it by adding the original amount, if you triple something, you add the original amount x2. Not really a fallacious guess to upgrade the verse, it's kinda just basic multiplication.

I don't intend to escalate things on this forum. I've always been peaceful and I have better things to do to tackle this kind of thing.

Sure ig? We all have a valid opinion of our own and other people's actions, however I personally think that your comments weren't very nice. And the idea of argumentation in general kinda goes against peace as it directly denotes conflict in my opinion.

Using some blogs as inspiration and references is fine, just don't equalize them to the verse you arguing like they are all the same, that all i want to say (at least as a DB supporter), now i'm busy with other projects bruhhhhhh, i swear i'm never going to touch Boost again, it killing my head

No problem, I wish you luck on your other projects. Have a good night.

Literally you are leading me in circles.

I said before that this was a circular discussion...

These are the same examples. More power means more speed of course. I ask you for a scan like DB where it says the speed is doubled. All I see is the power is doubled and the speed increased.

If you agree that more power = more speed, then logically, the doubling of said power should result in the doubling of the speed.

If the scenes are the same it is used. If the scenes are not the same then there is no reason to use. Except that for the anime the scene is the same.

No FRA

Read again.

It's kinda late rn and it's a pretty long read, I don't think more than once is necessary.

Nope.

But like, I did tho

Exception when the conditions are met. Except you don't have a single statement that says the speed is doubled.

But I do, multiple, and I've shared them multiple times.

Energy and physical power are doubled but not speed.

That'd go against the point you made earlier tho

Except you already take arbitrary values that suit you for the addition, something that is not done on this wiki.

But I don't tho, I'm just using math.

I will ask Mr. Bambu if he can help.

Not sure if they'd want to, they said this isn't the type of verse they'd usually evaluate before and when I tried to respond to their last reply, I kinda got aired. Although it's your choice of whether you'd like to call them or not, I'd be happy to discuss this topic with a staff member to clear everything up.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

Except that the anime is no different from all that. And nothing says that dodging a SoL attack is FTL without it being point blank which was not the case so Issei is not FTL.

"Bad choice. For chakra it says it increases speed, not doubles it. For KI there are multiple statements that say speed is multiplied, something you don't have in DxD. Same goes for the other two. Stop kidding yourself." "And either you didn't read what DDM said or you didn't understand." "Yes I did specify that. Because I know some people always want to use DB as their reference for multipliers when DB has multiple statements and they don't even bother to read them. Literally the first scan on the Kaioken says how even the speed is multiplied." "All this is just a circus to upgrade the speed of the verse." "I reread the sandbox again and there I said to myself: what the hell is this?" "According to your judgment because you just have your idea in mind that you don't want to change."

All this in the same post? I wonder.

I disagree with the Naruto claim, not all increases apply, just stated multipliers.

I'm repeating what you said. Reread your post. You talked about proportional increase of other stats. With that I have Naruto at MFTL+.

I believe that my direction is correct.

You just believe.

I'm not playing at all, I was just answering your question.

You are playing and you'll play alone.

If you double something, you increase it by adding the original amount, if you triple something, you add the original amount x2. Not really a fallacious guess to upgrade the verse, it's kinda just basic multiplication.

Sure. Except that when the word augmented is used it does not refer to multiplication without context.

Sure ig? We all have a valid opinion of our own and other people's actions, however I personally think that your comments weren't very nice. And the idea of argumentation in general kinda goes against peace as it directly denotes conflict in my opinion.

At this point I don't even want to answer that.

I said before that this was a circular discussion...

Because you don't provide any scan and you want to turn the discussion in circles. It's simple that when you are asked for something if you don't have it you say directly. I ask you for direct statements and you don't give them to me. Who do you think is making the discussion circular?

If you agree that more power = more speed, then logically, the doubling of said power should result in the doubling of the speed.

Wrong. That's not how it works. Doubling means the quantity is doubled but not the amplification.

No FRA

Yes FRA.

But I do, multiple, and I've shared them multiple times.

Multiply the speed? Open your scans and tell me what is directly said to be multiplied.

That'd go against the point you made earlier tho

Not at all. Its power is multiplied but not the speed. That's literally what I've been saying here since..

But I don't tho, I'm just using math.

I don't know who you're kidding with.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

MasqueTLDF, do yourself and all of us who have to be reading this a favor and ignore Digital_Franz, it's already clear that he is incapable of understanding something so simple, continuing to argue with him is a waste of time and energy, let's wait for more staff members to appear to give their opinion.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Except that the anime is no different from all that. And nothing says that dodging a SoL attack is FTL without it being point blank which was not the case so Issei is not FTL.

It is, in the anime and manga, Issei only receives 3 Boosts of an increase, Raynare's outfit is different, the movement of the light is present, etc. And it wasn't the only reason for FTL, while the light was at point blank range, Issei hadn't started his counter yet, meaning that for a successful counter, he'd need to move his arm to hit the light faster than the speed at which the light can travel. Also, because of the UES, Raynare would scale to her attack, and Issei outsped her.

All this in the same post? I wonder.

You asked how you were rude, and I provided the examples, what is wrong with showing these examples in one post?

I'm repeating what you said. Reread your post. You talked about proportional increase of other stats. With that I have Naruto at MFTL+.

I mean, you aren't really repeating what I'm saying, if you were, we'd be agreeing and I never made any claims about Naruto's speed. I don't need to reread my post, I'm the one who typed it. I mean, if Adult Naruto ever increased his chakra potentcy by 1000x, then sure, maybe he would be

You just believe.

Yes.

You are playing and you'll play alone.

Do you see what I mean? It's comments like this that upset me man, I'm not a fan of the open hostility and will be taking this to the RVR thread in the morning.

Sure. Except that when the word augmented is used it does not refer to multiplication without context.

Every increase/decrease of a number also refers to multiplication.

At this point I don't even want to answer that

I mean, it wasn't really a question so you don't have to. You reserve the right to refuse to respond to whatever you wish.

Because you don't provide any scan and you want to turn the discussion in circles. It's simple that when you are asked for something if you don't have it you say directly. I ask you for direct statements and you don't give them to me. Who do you think is making the discussion circular?

I've provided hundreds tho. I'm one of the few people in this thread that has provided any at all. I don't want the discussion to be circular, if I did, I wouldn't ask you to refrain from arguing and to wait for staff multiple times. I've given you the direct statements. I personally believe that a mutual lack of proper communication and understanding is responsible, as for who, I believe there are multiple people.

Wrong. That's not how it works. Doubling means the quantity is doubled but not the amplification.

Proof?

Yes FRA.

That doesn't really work here, according to the wiki's rules, that particular argument was rendered unusable. At least by my understanding.

Multiply the speed? Open your scans and tell me what is directly said to be multiplied.

Power

Not at all. Its power is multiplied but not the speed. That's literally what I've been saying here since..

Speed is a part of Power.

I don't know who you're kidding with.

I'm not kidding at all.
Anyway, Good Night

 

[MasqueTLDF]

MasqueTLDF, do yourself and all of us who have to be reading this a favor and ignore Digital_Franz, it's already clear that he is incapable of understanding something so simple, continuing to argue with him is a waste of time and energy, let's wait for more staff members to appear to give their opinion.

I mean, I'd like to ignore however I feel a responsibility for the goings-on of whatever thread I make. (And the community in general tbh) Also, please use language that is a bit nicer to @Digital_Franz, I wouldn't want him to feel uncomfortable or upset. Thank you, and I agree with the waiting for staff idea, good night to you as well.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Important lesson for life and VSBW.

 

[Digital_Franz]

MasqueTLDF, do yourself and all of us who have to be reading this a favor and ignore Digital_Franz, it's already clear that he is incapable of understanding something so simple, continuing to argue with him is a waste of time and energy, let's wait for more staff members to appear to give their opinion.

I want to passively respond to this but why bother with you? You're not worth it.