(Votes Needed) Major AP and Speed Revisions DxD

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

(I’m neutral on the thread. Didn’t even want to post but I’m bored)

Boost hasn’t been stated to explicitly double speed, yeah, but those in support use the fact that Issei gets faster when using Boost. Also, Kokabiel became slower after Divide was used to halve his power.

As already argued, the question is whether the characters get faster as a result of gaining more power, or whether Boost actually doubles speed. The issue is that it’s nebulous and the author has never clarified.

'Boost!!' 'Explosion!!'

A familiar voice resounded. It was coming from the gauntlet Ex was equipping——the artificial Longinus, which resembled the Boosted Gear.

Something was heard being fired from the gauntlet, following which a cartridge popped out. Instantly, an enormous crimson aura was released from the gauntlet, which wrapped itself around Ex's sword. It greatly enhanced Ex's own personal aura, causing his movements to become much more nimble. In that condition, he was mercilessly slaughtering the 'UL' splendidly. It seemed to function similar to the Durandal IV Zen carried in that it increases in power by using a charged bullet.

While the operating mechanism seemed to be somewhat different, fundamentally in terms of ability it was perfectly identical to the genuine Boosted Gear. It would double power, utilizing that power to improve one's physical abilities.

How do you judge the above?

I think it can be interpreted either way, personally. Technically, the durability of the characters gets lower and their attacks get weaker when they lose a lot of aura, so it could simply be that they get faster with more aura given to them. In this case, Boost doesn’t necessarily have to double speed. If it doubles Issei’s aura, he would logically become faster as a result.

It’s either that or Boost actually doubles speed based on what has been presented. Like when Issei transfers boosted power to Kiba and Xenovia, they became much faster. There’s no hard evidence either way, from where I stand. It’s not like the characters have ever really clarified, let’s be honest. So it comes down to the wiki’s standards.

I don't believe that Boost increases Issei's Demonic Power but his power. His stamina increases thanks to Boost? And even if this is the case it must be proven that it also doubles the output of what is done. Directly stated that it doubles the power.

But uh, what? That’s what it does.

Hearing Rias’ signal, I also summoned my wyverns. I began the preparations for [Crimson Extinct Dragon PrincessCrimson Extinct Dragonar]. I allowed the wyverns to attach to Rias’ body, as they gradually covered her in armour; and as soon as Rias’ was fully clad in armour

[Boost!!]

—The sound of her strengthening echoed, which doubled her own power of destruction, and she immediately eradicated more than fifty Evil Dragons in one blow.

That’s obviously doubling Rias’ demonic power and the output of her Power of Destruction as a result. And we have cases like Issei saying the power of his fist is multiplied when he uses Boost, so the output is obviously doubled.

But why are you distinguishing between power and demonic power anyway?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Personally, I think the Ex statement is pretty clear cut. Doubling power improves all physical abilities via demonic power (strength, defense, speed, stamina) in the same way, atp we'd get into the discussion of if Boosts double or increase strength which is pretty silly. Thanks for your input tho.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Personally, I think the Ex statement is pretty clear cut. Doubling power improves all physical abilities via demonic power (strength, defense, speed, stamina)

Stamina? I don't think so? I mean, the weakness of Boosted Gear for the user is how much their body can handle before it gives out. Issei has gotten tired many times without him saying he can increase his stamina with Boost.

The other stats are improved, yeah.

in the same way, atp we'd get into the discussion of if Boosts double or increase strength which is pretty silly. Thanks for your input tho.

It's not really the same thing. Everyone has acknowledged that speed is increased with Boost or reduced with Divide. The main issue is whether it's literally doubled, or merely increased by a nebulous amount as a result of the character's power being multiplied.

As regards to strength and power, it's not really in question since there's explicit descriptions about power output being doubled, Issei stating Boost multiplies the power of his fists, etc. Those are direct evidence of the multiplication applying to strength and power. There's no explicit statement of speed multiplication though, which is why the thread has been going in circles.

Speaking about that, I don't know if people recognize that the AP is the most important part of the revision. Staff can come and decide about speed, but the discussion should be moved to AP now. Everyone has made their arguments.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Stamina? I don't think so? I mean, the weakness of Boosted Gear for the user is how much their body can handle before it gives out. Issei has gotten tired many times without him saying he can increase his stamina with Boost.

I mean, early on Issei can barely form dragon shots the size of a grain of rice and they're the size of large rocks with boosts, and demonic power is directly equivalent to stamina. Although, I can get disagreeing so it's not really a point that I'll push.

The other stats are improved, yeah.

It's not really the same thing. Everyone has acknowledged that speed is increased with Boost or reduced with Divide. The main issue is whether it's literally doubled, or merely increased by a nebulous amount as a result of the character's power being multiplied.

As regards to strength and power, it's not really in question since there's explicit descriptions about power output being doubled, Issei stating Boost multiplies the power of his fists, etc. Those are direct evidence of the multiplication applying to strength and power. There's no explicit statement of speed multiplication though, which is why the thread has been going in circles.

Eh, Power and Strength aren't exactly the same in DxD, and there aren't many examples of statements like doubling the latter.

Speaking about that, I don't know if people recognize that the AP is the most important part of the revision. Staff can come and decide about speed, but the discussion should be moved to AP now. Everyone has made their arguments.

I definitely agree, I tried saying that earlier as well.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

And Boosts were also stated to "increase power" and if increase in reference to boost means double as they're used interchangeably, and power=stats, and it's shown to both double/increase strength and is shown and stated to also increase speed (Boosts increases physical abilities in the same way according to the Ex statement.), I think my conclusion just makes the most sense.

 

[Digital_Franz]

But uh, what? That’s what it does.

OK on this side. I wanted to take this both ways and you already did. Yes it is then said that it doubles its power but not its speed and as you said having more aura necessarily gives more speed no need for it to double.

That’s obviously doubling Rias’ demonic power and the output of her Power of Destruction as a result. And we have cases like Issei saying the power of his fist is multiplied when he uses Boost, so the output is obviously doubled.

OK. This doubles the Demonic Power and the output. Not always a problem on this side.

But why are you distinguishing between power and demonic power anyway?

Because they want to take the fact that the power is multiplied by two and apply it to speed.

 

[Digital_Franz]

And Boosts were also stated to "increase power" and if increase in reference to boost means double as they're used interchangeably, and power=stats, and it's shown to both double/increase strength and is shown and stated to also increase speed (Boosts increases physical abilities in the same way according to the Ex statement.), I think my conclusion just makes the most sense.

Boost may have been said to increase but to say to what extent it has been said to multiply on more than one occasion yet the same is not true for speed. It was never said that it is multiplied and even in a sentence that says that Boost multiplies the power it just says that it increases the speed. For the AP part I also said it in the discussion thread. The numbers are huge.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Boost may have been said to increase but to say to what extent it has been said to multiply on more than one occasion yet the same is not true for speed. It was never said that it is multiplied and even in a sentence that says that Boost multiplies the power it just says that it increases the speed.

Atp, you're just ignoring the evidence, like I said many times prior, I'd like refrain from discussing this topic with you to prevent circular discussions. There's no point in arguing further as the process will keep repeating and it'll bloat the thread, neither one of us will accept the other's views so we can just wait to discuss this with staff, k?

For the AP part I also said it in the discussion thread. The numbers are huge.

Numbers being big isn't an argument.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, staff should decide on the speed issue. DDM said he’d come back to check later. But focus should be on the AP

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Just to simplify things:
Arguments for:
AP: Issei's (Previously unaccepted due to inconsistency) Boost multipliers (Which double power as many times as the ability was used) were proven to be consistent via the multiplier blog and a scaling chain with proposed tier changes was made.
Speed: Many characters use light in the series, some uses were previously accepted a light speed while some weren't. My Power Systems blog (and the seventh paragraph of the OP) explains the many similarities to real light and why it should be used for speed scaling. Additionally, I proposed the use of the aforementioned Boosts multipliers for Speed because it is shown to increase strength and speed and is stated to double "power". Power referring to Demonic Power which was proven to be a UES and is used to increase the user's physical stats (including speed). And a scaling chain with proposed tier changes were shown in the new sandbox and speed blog. Additionally, I clarified most moments in the series where large speed gaps are present to clear up any potential inconsistencies.
Arguments against:
AP: Inconsistent, numbers are too large.
Speed: Numbers are too large, the exact words "doubling speed" are never used, inconsistent, increase=/=multiply.

 

[Vietthai96]

I forgot EX exist bruhh