- 1,066
- 1,105
Fudge,you right.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Villain Sues having a spat
- Thread starter Arcker123
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bleach sosuke aizen yhwach
- 1,754
- 1,066
(( by me)
)
- 1,754
- 1,066
- 1,083
- 365
Assuming Yhwach can summon at least his elites if need be and the fact that speed is equalized, what’s stopping Askin from doing the same thing he did to Oetsu? Oetsu blitzed the **** out of everyone but Askin who could at least barely react and then proceeded to poison him and would’ve killed him if Tenjiro wasn’t there. Aizen doesn’t have Tenjiro plus he’ll be dealing with Yhwach actively fighting him. Does speed equalized only matter to the two characters you started the fight with @Arker? Or is for everyone that can potentially enter the battlefield?
Yhwach takes it pretty easily in that case, the elites were all massively weaker than Oetsu but Askin still would’ve killed him because of his hax
Yhwach takes it pretty easily in that case, the elites were all massively weaker than Oetsu but Askin still would’ve killed him because of his hax
- 747
- 264
Yhwach cooks Aizen pretty bad. He has knowledge of KS so he’s not gonna get caught by the activation of it, he should be able to bully Aizen around stat wise since Yhwach scales above Yama and can casually contain and control his Bankai while Aizen scales below Shikai Yama and scales to people like FKT Urahara and FKT Yoruichi
The only issue would be actually killing Aizen, but Yhwach has sealing. On the flip side, Aizen doesn’t really have any ways to put down Yhwach. His AP is high enough to hurt him but the amount of hits he’d need to land in comparison would make it that much harder.
Aizen is smart yes, but Yhwach considered him a threat for his Reiatsu as God Aizen, so without that aspect I don’t really see him as being that much of a threat for Yhwach with full knowledge both narratively and vs battle wise.
No knowledge then KS works it’s magic but without that Aizen doesn’t have many if any advantages besides intelligence which Yhwach didn’t even see as a concern
The only issue would be actually killing Aizen, but Yhwach has sealing. On the flip side, Aizen doesn’t really have any ways to put down Yhwach. His AP is high enough to hurt him but the amount of hits he’d need to land in comparison would make it that much harder.
Aizen is smart yes, but Yhwach considered him a threat for his Reiatsu as God Aizen, so without that aspect I don’t really see him as being that much of a threat for Yhwach with full knowledge both narratively and vs battle wise.
No knowledge then KS works it’s magic but without that Aizen doesn’t have many if any advantages besides intelligence which Yhwach didn’t even see as a concern
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Since Aizen can't transform Yhwach can just weaken him with attacks then seal later. Yhwach didn't even care to use Yama bankai other than the possibility of using it against Yama for disrespect. He replied on his own ability against Ichibei. He doesn't care about Yama's bankai. Aizen is inferior to shikai Yama. The whole willing to nuke to take out Aizen wasn't because his stats were that ridiculous but Aizen himself is just so dangerous those precautions are necessary. Plus nuking is an effective counter to KS as it won't matter if he's not seeing the real Aizen of he incinerates a large area. Scaling this to Aizen isn't honest in my opinion especially if Aizen admits inferiority. Such inferiority is likely even assuming base yama as Yama didn't even think Aizen can cut him
@Guacamolefletcher @Arcker123
@Guacamolefletcher @Arcker123
Bastolan27
He/Him- 998
- 1,019
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Oh yea he can aoe with his powers
Bastolan27
He/Him- 998
- 1,019
Fun fact: Zofiel (神の炎 ゾフエル) translates to "God's Flame Zofiel" or "God's Blaze Zofiel." In this context, 神の炎 translates to "God's flame" or "Divine flame" in English. Interestingly, the Japanese name for the archangel Uriel can also mean 神の炎. It's intriguing that Bambi's Vollständig shares this name, especially considering Uriel can also mean "God's light" (神の光). Lille's Vollständig is named Jilliel (神の裁きジリエル, Jirieru; Japanese for "Judgement of God"), even though his abilities seem more fitting for Uriel. Lastly, Zofiel is quite similar to Zophiel (צֹפִיאֵל Ṣōp̄īʾēl, "God is my watchman")
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
- Thread starter
- #130
Why though? Aizen is not only a better strategist than Yhwach, he even states knowledge isn't relevant.
Containing Bankai isn't the scaling we use nor is it one that makes sense given royd. Royd, who has 80% of Yhwach's power is relative to Shikai Yamamoto. Aizen is only 1,2-1.3x weaker. The gap is not a huge as it's being argued.
He scales relative to Yamamoto and both would high diff each other. Idk why it's being argued that AIzen is massively below Yama, they're rivals.
Yoruichi and Urahara's only scaling is being relative to base Aizen. They aren't anti feats.
Completely featless and it's combat effectiveness is headcanon. No reason to assume this would be better than Aizen's attacks and such.
1.3x gap and piercing weapons isn't a high gap. Blut is the only argument for this at all.
Aizen in the narrative completely outsmarted Yhwach and created a plan that resulted in his death. AIzen's intelligence would be able to let him understand and come up with counter to Yhwach's powers.
Nothing says this. It doesn't follow that because someone is a war potential for one aspect, they aren't threats in others
.Regeneration makes poisioning him impossible. No elite has an ability to kill Mid Godly and Type 8 immortality.
Aizen is relative to Shikai Yama and is at best marginally weaker, he thinks Yama would probably win, which doesn't imply massive inferiority. Yama and Aizen are both highly wary of each other, again, stop arguing against the profiles. Yama get stabbed by Aizen and states he expects the real Aizen to be capable of that.
No AOE is going to kill Aizen at all, so it won't matter.
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 1,945
- 2,150
you say "FKT Yoruichi" like she keeps up with Aizen in a fight, and Urahara like he gets stronger or has anti feats. He doesn't scale vastly below Shikai Yama.
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Even if he isn't massively weaker than shikai Yama, he's definitely way weaker than bankai Yama. So why does matter lol
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Alright but he's far below bankai Yama so I don't see why this matters
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
How does this help Aizen. Blut Arterie one shot, blut vene can't be harmed by Aizen
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Regen doesn't matter because Aizen can still be massively weakened by his attacks since he can't transform. His stats will be weakened making him an easier seal target. KS is little factor here. Yhwach still has higher ap without blut making him able to weaken Aizen
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
- Thread starter
- #138
No? He was only in a weaker state due to Mugetsu. Destruction a 6x gap isn't going to cause. Sealing is still headcanon that hasn't even been shown to be effective i battle.
No argument for this. Knowledge alone isn't an argument.
A 1.3x gap can't do this. You guys are really wanking such a minor gap.
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
It is till u explain how
More like it you damage someone in bleach it can affect their stats which 1.3x can do
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
Because you have to look at it and Yhwach knows that
Didn't say that I just mean damage of that level would st least damper his stats overtime
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
- 1,919
You're trolling with keep saying this so I'm not gunna waste my time other ppl can decide
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
- Thread starter
- #143
Deagon moment.
You can't show how knowing that alone is going to help though when we have statements and showings otherwise.Because you have to look at it and Yhwach knows that
Didn't say that I just mean damage of that level would st least damper his stats overtime
You can't prove a 1.3x gap is capable of that.
- 747
- 264
Idk how to reply into split up segments neatly like you do so I'll just go point by pointWhy though? Aizen is not only a better strategist than Yhwach, he even states knowledge isn't relevant.
Containing Bankai isn't the scaling we use nor is it one that makes sense given royd. Royd, who has 80% of Yhwach's power is relative to Shikai Yamamoto. Aizen is only 1,2-1.3x weaker. The gap is not a huge as it's being argued.
He scales relative to Yamamoto and both would high diff each other. Idk why it's being argued that AIzen is massively below Yama, they're rivals.
Yoruichi and Urahara's only scaling is being relative to base Aizen. They aren't anti feats.
Completely featless and it's combat effectiveness is headcanon. No reason to assume this would be better than Aizen's attacks and such.
1.3x gap and piercing weapons isn't a high gap. Blut is the only argument for this at all.
Aizen in the narrative completely outsmarted Yhwach and created a plan that resulted in his death. AIzen's intelligence would be able to let him understand and come up with counter to Yhwach's powers.
Nothing says this. It doesn't follow that because someone is a war potential for one aspect, they aren't threats in others
Regeneration makes poisioning him impossible. No elite has an ability to kill Mid Godly and Type 8 immortality.
Aizen is relative to Shikai Yama and is at best marginally weaker, he thinks Yama would probably win, which doesn't imply massive inferiority. Yama and Aizen are both highly wary of each other, again, stop arguing against the profiles. Yama get stabbed by Aizen and states he expects the real Aizen to be capable of that.
No AOE is going to kill Aizen at all, so it won't matter.
1.) Knowledge isn't relevant if you're already under KS since he doesn't have to recast it, it's one and done. That and if you're already under KS, knowledge that you're in an illusion doesn't help. But if you haven't ever been caught yet then that's a different story. We've also seen from the Ichibei fight that Yhwach is willing to injure himself in character so it's not a stretch to say he'd blind himself knowing full well he could recover his sight whenever he chooses.
2.) Relative in terms of what? AP? Yhwach casually slashed through Yama's shikai flames and his striking strength is enough to launch Yama in the anime while. And Royd while still using Blut Vene to survive Bankai Yama's passive heat hax (meaning he wasn't using Blut Arterie's 5x AP amp) was able to conjure up 2 reishi based attacks that were implied to be able to damage Bankai Yama. The first was a basic Quincy arrow which bypassed West and required Yama to physically deflect it instead of tanking or catching it, and the other more concrete one being Church Song which made a bloodlusted Yama stop a full charge and stab his blade in the ground to prevent himself from running into it. Durability? He can take Shikai Yama's Flame AP+Physical Striking strength with a bladed weapon on the arm with very little damage. Whether he used Blut or not is unknown but I'm under the assumption that he did. Speed? Yea, Royd was slightly faster than but relative to Yama in general since he's the same speed in Shikai and Bankai. And all that is against a bloodlusted, rage amped Yama who's unquantifiably stronger than he would normally be at that point
3.) He scales relative to Yama in all but AP and likely durability (since Yama can take some of his stronger shikai techniques and has something to upscale his dura from while Aizen's just scales to his AP flatly) Yama's Zanpakuto's AP is noted to be what makes him a dangerous threat by Aizen and Yhwach, and Aizen concedes he'd probably lose to Yama 1 v 1 even with Yama being under KS. If 2 people are near equals in everything but one person has something that gives them a big advantage then the gap in an actual confrontation is bigger than what their otherwise relative abilities suggest.
4.) FKT Urahara and Yoruichi scaling to Base Aizen is relevant because they needed stronger forms than what were used in FKT to fight on par with Base Askin in Yoruichi's case and Vollstandig Askin in Urahara's case. Normal Shunko is already a Bankai esque power amp and Yoruichi needed a 'level 3' Shunko to fight Base Askin. And Urahara needed to stat amp himself to overpower Vollstandig Askin. Askin being someone who's inferior to Base Yhwach (unless you scale post revival Askin above Base Yhwach). Even if we say that's only because of Askin's ability (which he stated that Yoruichi and Urahara had resistance to mind you), and going the route of Yhwach summoning other Quincy (which I haven't been for my points), the same result can happen to Aizen just from Askin alone. And obviously Yhwach wouldn't just let Aizen blitz and one shot, especially since Yhwach is faster. But if Aizen does manage to kill them, Yhwach gets their powers aside from Gerard and Pernida anyways and it's probably more dangerous like that regardless.
5.) We do at the very least know that Yhwach can seal people like Gremmy. Gremmy not being able to escape at the very least puts the potency of the sealing > Gremmy's full power value which is slightly above Aizen's Base power
6.) Aside from that, Yhwach has his reishi based attacks like regular arrows, the arrow sword, and church song, which scale above Royd's ouput of said abilities that are implied to be able to damage Bankai Yama using West when Royd himself was using Blut Vene, meaning his AP wasn't being amped by 5x. So at any given point, Yhwach's AP or Durability can be 6.5x Aizen's. That's also not taking into account the fact that Yhwach can steal Aizen's powers, possess Aizen's body with blut if they ever get close enough, Telekinesis and Arrows/Explosive Beams from range etc that could all potentially be far above Aizen's durability, Shadows for other forms of getting around the battlefield other than High Speed Movement, etc
7.) Aizen didn't completely outsmart Yhwach in the same sense of a direct 1 v 1 confrontation like here. He first hit Base Yhwach with a TYBW Aizen level KS when Aizen had the new ability of no longer needing to activate KS with his sword. Something Yhwach wouldn't have any knowledge of since Aizen never displayed that ability before. Then Aizen reactivated it again in their fight. It's like saying you poisoning me during a neutral confrontation and then later having that poison activate against me in a fight which allows your friend to shoot me in the back is the same as you and I in a 1 on 1 confrontation outsmarting me. Context is key.
Another point is...Aizen rarely ever goes up against people stronger than him. It only happened 3 times in the story, once while he was severely out of character. The other 2 times he survived more so through using prep time and previously established set ups, not by going in blind against. Nothing in the TYBW suggests Aizen specifically came up with countermeasures for Yhwach in the same way he did against Yama. In a direct 1 v 1 confrontation, in terms of battle IQ and fight intelligence, Yama outsmarted Aizen, which was countered by Aizen's prep time with Wonderwiess, not a strategy Aizen came up with mid battle. On top of that, Yhwach has full knowledge on this version of Aizen, and at best Aizen only knows vaguely about Yhwach from 1000 years ago. Yhwach having full knowledge on Aizen up to the end of the FKT arc is something you seem to be dismissing
8.) They're not mutually exclusive no, but Yhwach never mentioned Aizen's intelligence as something that would be an issue to him even prior to the Almighty. And what set up his downfall was an enhanced KS ability that he didn't know about, not some crazy intelligence feat that outsmarted Yhwach
- 747
- 264
Base FKT Yoruichi = Urahara = Base Aizen. TYBW Yoruichi in her highest Shunko forms can blitz Askin who in base could blitz Shunko Yushiro. (Yushiro is considered relative to her in terms of speed.) Urahara has a Bankai that can directly amp his stats, so he can in a sense get stronger. There's also the fact that in the first invasion, Urahara implied he wouldn't be able to just enter the battle between Ichigo and Quilge casually, yet during the 2nd invasion he's able to deal with a Quincy Elite who's > the non Elites, so there's a case to be made that he did get stronger in those 5 days of preparation but it's not a hill I would die on or feel the need to argue for
Anyways, with Base Askin being >>> Yushiro speed wise, Vollstandig being beyond Bankai level amp with it being 'like the difference between Heaven and Earth' to Letzt Stil which in itself is beyond Bankai, and Bankai Urahara being faster than Vollstandig Askin...and in turn it being likely that Vollstandig Askin is weaker than Base Yhwach, the main point is Base Yhwach is above the Aizen/FKT Urahara/FKT Yoruichi tier
noninho
He/Him- 3,594
- 1,140
Bro made it work against the guy that was his captain, what are those people talking about
Aizen fra
- 4,188
- 2,778
I noticed Aizen also has deconstruction with Kurohitsugi which he uses in character, and can spawn on a target, if Yhwach tries to escape Aizen can bind him with Bakudo and prevent escape.
