Vertigo Cosmology Is High 1-A and The Presence is High 1-A, Lucifer possibly 0

[Weaver261]

Vertigo Cosmology Scaling
-----------------------------------
There are three known creations. Yahweh's creation, Elaine Belloc's Creations, Lucifer's creation.
All of these creations are combined into one creation after Elaine Belloc claimed her god hood.
Lucifer's creation isn't realm or universe. It's a totality, multiverse. So, the final creation will be a multiverse making the base line 2-A structure.
It's a totality, a multiverse
Space and time are extensions of mind and the will. Lucifer who has infinite will can fold infinity thru time and space.
There're also abstractions layers above base line multiverse. This could be a notion to higher dimensional layers but there's no statement of them being infinite.
Elain Flying Over Creations
So, it'd be at least 1-B.
Above all these comes Silver City. Silver City is disconnected from multiverse by Void. Silver City is other sense called as Heaven but not exactly heaven.
Silver City is beyond space, time and dimension. And it's an inaccessible layer and the creation is just like a child toy compared to silver city.
About Silver City
Creation was disconnected by Void.
Creation is treated as adjustable blueprint in silver city which Raguel referred to as a map. Silver City is where Angels and Archangels reside.
Creation is just an adjustable map to angels.
Even a normal angel can create concepts like dimension making each of them 1-A in tier.
Carasel developed number of concepts like dimension.
Silver City is also 1-A cuz being beyond space, time and was made even before the concept of dimension is created.
In the same tier, garden of destiny, dream realm and other realms exists like hell. Hell being the same size as heaven making it 1-A also.
The Book of destiny contains everything in creation even including Destiny himself and Basanos which are created to mimic BOD is also 1-A in tier.
The Book Of Destiny
The Book of destiny can't be destroyed by force of Michael (Michael has infinite force which can be the raw power for creating creations)
Lucifer being infinite in will power and being able to destroy BOD easily making him above Michael.
Beyond heaven and silver city, there's mansions of silence where angels go to when they die.
Mansions of silence
Mansions of silence contains infinite rejected failed creations by The Presence, making it 1-A+ in structure only cuz there's a half angel made by fallen angel Sandalphon came out of other creation. We can assume that other creations also contain silver cities. Thus why, MOS is 1-A+.
Infinity answers Infinity
Mansions of silence contain other creations, universes.
Mansions of silence is often misinterpreted as fragile structure. But it's not. It's just too fragile for powerful beings like Lucifer.
Mansions are fragile structures. They were never meant to support Lucifer's presence.
Lucifer erased MOS just by simply standing there. Here's a scan of Elaine explaining how her powers and lucifer's are too strong for creations.
Creation is like an ant to Lucifer and Elaine
Beyond all of that is The Void.
The Void contains infinite alternatives of The Presence's stage play. All of them layered on themselves endlessly. The void is infinite and eternal.
Infinite Creations layer on themselves endlessly
Creations rise and fall within the void. No matter how many creations layered on themselves infinitely, endlessly, the void can't be filled.
The Void can't be filled.
So, The Void is Tier High 1-A. Also, The Presence is. Some say there're other creators beside Yahweh.
But the void is infinite and eternal and the presence himself also stated that he's infinite and eternal.
The Presence is also Infinite and Eternal
The Presence that lucifer met in the void is just an aspect of The Presence.
The monopoly old man appearance is just an aspect of The Presence like The Light form that showed up in Heaven's war.
This is complete vertigo (mostly lucifer 2000) cosmology scaling.

Here's the important characters' tier list.
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The Presence aka The Void = High 1-A
Lucifer = High 1-A, possibly 0 cuz in the end of Carey's lucifer run, he escaped The Presence's plan and become something like the void. Mike Carey said he was escaped from his function and even doing his own thing while we're not looking at. He literally escaped the narrative and the entire vertigo cosmology.
Lucifer escaped his function and becomes smth like void?
Lucifer didn't want to be author's mouthpiece.
Elaine Belloc = 1-A+. She became what The Presence was once, but it doesn't mean she's also High 1-A too. Cuz The Presence only used an aspect to create creation.
Michael = 1-A+
Death = 1-A. She is the ultimate death of all things. She can travel across creations including DC Multiverse.
Other Endless = 1-A
Jin En Mok like Cetis, Silk man and berim might be older than creations and the aspect of the presence but that doesn't mean they would be in higher tier list. They just live longer

This is Complete Vertigo Scaling :3

 

[Gasper]

No, nothing here is even close to 1-A.

 

[Weaver261]

Sorry. I don't understand your sentence. If you think "He" isn't close to 1-A, can you provide me more information of why?

 

[Excellence616]

 

[Deleted member 2530]

1. Murder Mystery is an adaptation of a short story by Gaiman. Its not part of any cosmology.
2. Silver City is still part of the Creation.
3. The ant comparison is an analogy to explain her powers not that the Creation is literal ant to them.
4. Not a single thing proves High 1A.

 

[Ped2018]

Bro is about to be sent to the shadow realm by Deagonx

 

[Greatsage13th]

I can hear boss music...haiyah

 

[KingNanaya]

you know I gotta follow this

 

[Gasper]

Sorry. I don't understand your sentence. If you think "He" isn't close to 1-A, can you provide me more information of why?

Sorry had a stroke lol

Anyway, i disagree because having infinite dimensions dosen't make you low 1-C.
1-B dosen't have a reason at all and being beyond space and time isn't 1-A.

 

[Weaver261]

1. Murder Mystery is an adaptation of a short story by Gaiman. Its not part of any cosmology.
2. Silver City is still part of the Creation.
3. The ant comparison is an analogy to explain her powers not that the Creation is literal ant to them.
4. Not a single thing proves High 1A.

1. In Murder Mystery, Gabirel mentioned about "Mansions of silence". If you read Lucifer 2000 comic, you will know murder mystery takes place while the silver city is being built.
2. I never said Silver City is not a part of the Creation. The word "Creation" here means everything including Silver City and Multiverse. If you mean Silver City is a part of the multiverse, then you should read my context again.
3. The metaphor literally explained how powerful Elaine and Lucifer are. I also never said Creation is like an ant "SiZe" to them.
4. Instead of saying like that, can you tell me why?

 

[Weaver261]

Sorry had a stroke lol

Anyway, i disagree because having infinite dimensions dosen't make you low 1-C.
1-B dosen't have a reason at all and being beyond space and time isn't 1-A.

I already knew that this kind of questions will come. It's true that having infinite dimensions won't make it low 1-C. I will fix it.
But in the scan where elaine flying over the creations, she mentioned about higher dimensions which are abstraction layers inside Lucifer's multiverse. As I said, there's no context of them being infinite but there might be quite a few. At least Low 1-C to 1-B.
Silver City is not just beyond space and time. It was made even before the concept of dimension is created. Concept of dimension includes Higher Dimensions. I think that is enough to get Silver City to 1-A

 

[Gasper]

I already knew that this kind of questions will come. It's true that having infinite dimensions won't make it low 1-C. I will fix it.
But in the scan where elaine flying over the creations, she mentioned about higher dimensions which are abstraction layers inside Lucifer's multiverse. As I said, there's no context of them being infinite but there might be quite a few. At least Low 1-C to 1-B.
Silver City is not just beyond space and time. It was made even before the concept of dimension is created. Concept of dimension includes Higher Dimensions. I think that is enough to get Silver City to 1-A

Any evidence for these dimensions being superior to each other?

 

[Deagonx]

t's a totality, a multiverse
Space and time are extensions of mind and the will. Lucifer who has infinite will can fold infinity thru time and space.
There're also abstractions layers above base line multiverse. This could be a notion to higher dimensional layers but there's no statement of them being infinite.
Elain Flying Over Creations
So, it'd be at least 1-B.

This doesn't get us to 1-B, we're more or less still at 2-A here.

Creation is just an adjustable map to angels.
Even a normal angel can create concepts like dimension making each of them 1-A in tier.
Carasel developed number of concepts like dimension.
Silver City is also 1-A cuz being beyond space, time and was made even before the concept of dimension is created.
In the same tier, garden of destiny, dream realm and other realms exists like hell. Hell being the same size as heaven making it 1-A also.

Where do these scans come from? Which comic and issue #?

EDIT: Nevermind I figured it out. This isn't from a DC comic so it cannot be used.

 

[Weaver261]

Any evidence for these dimensions being superior to each other?

At first, Elaine is flying over physical spaces. After that she fly ON through abstractions. I can only think of Higher dimensions when I read this. It's clearly written that she is just flying over pure physical spaces at first which are just 3D spaces. Then, she flies upward through abstractions which could be seen as Higher Dimensions. So yes, I think these dimensions are superior to each other

 

[Deagonx]

After that she fly ON through abstractions. I can only think of Higher dimensions when I read this. It's clearly written that she is just flying over pure physical spaces at first which are just 3D spaces. Then, she flies upward through abstractions which could be seen as Higher Dimensions

You're being too generous to what your scan says.

"From there I fly on through abstractions and abominations. Dimensions left incomplete, and those where initially tiny flaws have grown monstrous."

You're right that given that this passage starts with "At first I'm flying through purely physical spaces" that these realms are certainly conceptual in some way, but we don't have nearly enough info to assert them as being a higher level of infinity than an infinite multiverse.

 

[Gasper]

At first, Elaine is flying over physical spaces. After that she fly ON through abstractions. I can only think of Higher dimensions when I read this. It's clearly written that she is just flying over pure physical spaces at first which are just 3D spaces. Then, she flies upward through abstractions which could be seen as Higher Dimensions. So yes, I think these dimensions are superior to each other

I didn't deny those are Higher Dimensions. Higher Dimensions just don't automatically mean they are a Higher tier.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

. In Murder Mystery, Gabirel mentioned about "Mansions of silence". If you read Lucifer 2000 comic, you will know murder mystery takes place while the silver city is being built.

Sigh. You haven't read Murder Mysteries, have you? There is no Gabriel as far as I know. The Silver City is pre built and they are in the process of building the Universe. What you're describing is Lucifer #50, which is exactly opposite. In #50, The Universe has already been created while they are in the process of building the Silver City. They just happen to share the same illustrator for both.

4. Instead of saying like that, can you tell me why?

Because you use a non canon material as basis for 1A and scale above it.

 

[Weaver261]

You're being too generous to what your scan says.

"From there I fly on through abstractions and abominations. Dimensions left incomplete, and those where initially tiny flaws have grown monstrous."

You're right that given that this passage starts with "At first I'm flying through purely physical spaces" that these realms are certainly conceptual in some way, but we don't have nearly enough info to assert them as being a higher level of infinity than an infinite multiverse.

Am I? I think the context gives us enough information about Higher Dimensions. The author could use "fly through" but he chose to use "fly ON through". Why? Just on a whim? And he even bolds the word "Abstractions". Abstract existences are higher level of infinity than physical spaces.

 

[Deagonx]

Abstract existences are higher level of infinity than physical spaces.

No, not necessarily.

 

[Weaver261]

Sigh. You haven't read Murder Mysteries, have you? There is no Gabriel as far as I know. The Silver City is pre built and they are in the process of building the Universe. What you're describing is Lucifer #50, which is exactly opposite. In #50, The Universe has already been created while they are in the process of building the Silver City. They just happen to share the same illustrator for both.

Because you use a non canon material as basis for 1A and scale above it.

Sorry I just recently read Lucifer 50 and get mixed up about Gariel. Yeah, you are right. But in Lucifer 2000, angels can look down the universe just like bubbles. In the scan where narrator explained about Silver City, "It's the silver city that is not part of the order of created things". Created things also includes Dimension and others. These created things are created by Lucifer, Michael and Gabriel I think.

 

[Weaver261]

No, not necessarily.

In higher dimensions, abstract concepts could potentially take on new forms or properties that transcend three-dimensional understanding. An abstract existence can't be reached no matter how many material lesser existences stacked upon each other.

 

[Deagonx]

An abstract existence can't be reached no matter how many material lesser existences stacked upon each other.

I understand, but there are practical limitations of this notion when it comes to our tiering system. If we treat higher geometric dimensions as higher levels of infinity, this would infer that an abstract existence immediately leads to 1-A, but that's not obviously a level-headed approach.

 

[Tarang123]

Disagree FRA

 

[LuciferX]

Hm. Make sense.

 

[Gasper]

Hm. Make sense.

The OP?

 

[LuciferX]

The OP?

What else?

 

[Samael_010]

agree get lucifer to tier 0

 

[Gasper]

What else?

Bruh

 

[LuciferX]

agree get lucifer to tier 0

Nah. Layers into Tier 0.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Disagree FRA

 

[Samael_010]

Nah. Layers into Tier 0.

I know it will happen one day....

 

[Weaver261]

I understand, but there are practical limitations of this notion when it comes to our tiering system. If we treat higher geometric dimensions as higher levels of infinity, this would infer that an abstract existence immediately leads to 1-A, but that's not obviously a level-headed approach.

An abstract existence doesn't need to be 1-A. What I want to say is the concept of higher dimensions is similar to the abstractions. They both have higher states of existence. The scan of Elaine flying over creations can be referring to Higher Dimensions. I can't explain well but.......
In the ideas of concepts and abstracts, the difference between the material realm and the higher realms aren't physical or spatial differences. The difference is the form that they exist. No matter how many more axes or complexities grow above material realm, they can't reach to higher realm. Cuz the difference is the form. In that sense, an abstract existence could be 1-A but it's kinda absurd and will need more solid contexts around that. So, I just want to keep abstractions as Higher Dimensions.

 

[Deagonx]

In the ideas of concepts and abstracts, the difference between the material realm and the higher realms aren't physical or spatial differences. The difference is the form that they exist.

Yes, I understand the concept of an abstract existence.

No matter how many more axes or complexities grow above material realm, they can't reach to higher realm. Cuz the difference is the form. In that sense, an abstract existence could be 1-A but it's kinda absurd and will need more solid contexts around that. So, I just want to keep abstractions as Higher Dimensions.

I feel like you're not really getting my meaning here. We already tier Heaven as a higher dimension, but it's only treated as a single level of higher infinity, not H1-B or 1-A or anything like that.

 

[Weaver261]

Yes, I understand the concept of an abstract existence.


I feel like you're not really getting my meaning here. We already tier Heaven as a higher dimension, but it's only treated as a single level of higher infinity, not H1-B or 1-A or anything like that.

Eh....I'm not talking about Heaven here. I'm talking about Abstractions layers that exist in Lucifer's Multiverse which is later combined into Elaine's Universe as one. At first, Elaine is just flying through physical spaces. Then, she flies up through abstractions and abominations. And then, she meets with an angel from the infinite distance. They started flying at Silver City after the fight with Fenris while holding the corner of the void. Instead of saying Heaven like H1-B or 1-A, I want to say that these abstractions (higher dimensions) should have some sort of tier, like low 1-C to High 1-C since we don't know the number of abstractions exactly.

 

[CosmicWreck]

I understand, but there are practical limitations of this notion when it comes to our tiering system. If we treat higher geometric dimensions as higher levels of infinity, this would infer that an abstract existence immediately leads to 1-A, but that's not obviously a level-headed approach.

Not to mention, in fiction "abstract" existences usually refer to incorporeal or conceptual spaces, not higher dimensional and thus we can't assume it is from this description alone.

 

[LuciferX]

Eh....I'm not talking about Heaven here. I'm talking about Abstractions layers that exist in Lucifer's Multiverse which is later combined into Elaine's Universe as one. At first, Elaine is just flying through physical spaces. Then, she flies up through abstractions and abominations. And then, she meets with an angel from the infinite distance. They started flying at Silver City after the fight with Fenris while holding the corner of the void. Instead of saying Heaven like H1-B or 1-A, I want to say that these abstractions (higher dimensions) should have some sort of tier, like low 1-C to High 1-C since we don't know the number of abstractions exactly.

You have to prove qualitative superiority in order to generalize Tier 1 for a certain character.

 

[Weaver261]

You have to prove qualitative superiority in order to generalize Tier 1 for a certain character.

I'm talking about Abstraction layers. Of course, they are qualitatively superior to physical spaces.

 

[LuciferX]

I'm talking about Abstraction layers. Of course, they are qualitatively superior to physical spaces.

Evidence?

 

[Weaver261]

Abstractions mean simplifying the complex structure. Take a square cube and slice that cube into square slices. The cube became abstraction, and the slices became lesser state of the cube. Their structures became simple, but the cube is not. In philosophy approach, abstraction is like a higher world which is more real than material world. The first example is about complexity difference and the second example is about form difference. Lucifer said time and space are extensions of his infinite will. He can make them out of his hand.

 

[Yusuf21259]

the scans seem to have interpreted it a bit haphazardly, you consider the layers as the suitability of your idea and opinion on yourself rather than the suitability of the system.
disagree with your opinion