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Verse quality requirements (or lack thereof)

@Agnaa

Its a given a verse has to have fighting in it in order to be allowed. No need for me to mention it. What I said was true because we do have 9-C profiles with characters who are practically regular people and supernatural powers isn't a requirement for a verse to be allowed.
 
If the quality of the work is a factor for the deletion of it (Writing, composition, grammar, etc.), then many works should be eliminated here without some exceptions.

Art or quality is completely subjective to whoever hurts (some may say that shit or indiscriminate massacre is art and is valid, others the opposite and is valid (exaggerated example).

The same goes if it is "popular or not", as long as there is evidence and a correct translation / context of the work / character, it is valid and maintained.

Personally, if don't break the Tier System, then there is no problem
If it is minimally consistent in the feats ... well no problems
If it's not vague or something that can't be measured ... no problem
If it has a minimum logic it is valid
 
Notoriety is important, but how notable should a work be?

Is tens of thousands of followers good enough? Or even just a few thousand?
 
I literally said in the OP this is not what we are talking about. Invisible dragons power is easy to tell, it's still shit writing.

People were having problems with something that I could have written when my age was in single digits (and as people will tell you, my English was not good even a few years ago) being in the wiki, hence this thread for overall allowing such low quality works even if they meet our prerequisites.
 
Should somebody ask more staff members to comment here? This thread does not seem to move in any coherent direction.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
snip
Click to expand...
I commented on the two most common problems people have with verses with Invisible Dragon, both expressed here and in general.

And I already addressed your OP in my post, that low quality doesn't matter in and of itself, as long as it doesn't dip its toes the other two categories, it doesn't matter.
 
Antvasima said:
Should somebody ask more staff members to comment here? This thread does not seem to move in any coherent direction.
Click to expand...
Isn't... everyone agreeing with your proposition?

Stoned Orc was the only that seemed really against the idea, but then "being sold for money" is agreed to not be the only prerequisite by just about everyone.
 
Okay. Sorry. Never mind then. Do you or some other staff or experienced member have suggestions for a new regulation text, or is it unnecessary?
 
Okay. Is there anything left to do here then?
 
It depends on if they are officially published, have notability, work within out system, have a coherent story, and fulfill our other Editing Rules for inclusion.
 
To start, Invisible Dragon isn't better written than Onision and Suggs stories. They're all garbage and have the same level of garbageness. The only difference the former has is that someone wants to have it as their pet verse, not saying any names as I don't know who's behind it nor do I care about finding out. I can guarantee this garbage is going to float towards the top of our site given how our wiki treats powerful characters. And gee, what happens when garbage is the first thing people see on our wiki? Seriously, I don't remember any other wiki of this sort having this problem. It should be basic common sense that works with the quality of someone an 8th grader would pick on shouldn't go on a wiki that tries to be a respectable and notable source.

And no, quality isn't as subjective as people are making it out to be. If one person likes something while another 99 don't, it's nigh objectively bad. Don't tell me that because it's subjective, shiz like The Room is good unironically (emphasis on unironically. Ironically, it's amazing).
 
A subjective opinion being shared by 99% of the people doesn't make it objective. Regardless, there are people who do like Invisible Dragon for real, I sure do. A work can be fun because of it being too ridiculous, just like The Room, which I'm sure a lot of people like as well. People forget the "it's good" part of "so bad it's good".

I've read a bit of Suggs, and is kind of entertaining, I'd be fine with having it here if it made any sense (it does not, from what I can tell).
 
Shit by any other name smells just as bad. Idc if it's intentional or not, nor how popular it was. Rapsittie Street Kids has freaking Disney Renaissance and Simpsons mainstays as VAs, but if you made a profile for any of the characters in that I'd block you so fast you'd swear my name was SeryuShin.
 
If they fall in line with the established rules then they are allowed. Just because they are "bad" doesn't mean anything.
 
@IS. You could make that argument for just about anything. An admittedly extreme example is that slavery being bad is subjective because there's supremacists out there who believe it should still be there.

Don't ignore the "so bad" part of "so bad it's good". It's a figure of speech. A movie so bad it's good is a movie you sit around with friends and laugh at how garbage it is. Not it being so bad that it loops around to being the next Citizen freaking Kane.
 
Dienomite22 said:
If they fall in line with the established rules then they are allowed. Just because they are "bad" doesn't mean anything.
Click to expand...
We shouldn't have to have rules for common sense. Them being the quality of Troll 2 should disqualify them solely for being of that level. We allow them, we're the joke site nobody can take seriously because it's got stuff like The Body from Reaper's Creek. If you want an example in this very same community, compare Death Battle to Cartoon Fight Club.
 
I agree with Cal. We have to draw the line somewhere. I think that ID is fine though, as it was intentionally bad and very popular for that reason.
 
Morality Ôëá Opinion on movies and books. Even then, you can very well argue that all morality is completely subjective, but that's not really the place for this. >_>

Something like The Room is still quoted endlessly, had a whole other movie just about its making, people still watch it, and there are even theaters who play it every year, iirc. People genuinely enjoy, just not for the reasons originally intended. I'd surely call it "more good" than some random movie that just comes and goes and no one remembers it. Just like I'd say ID is infinitely better than some cookie cutter Xianxia novel, or "I Reincarnated As A Transgender Washing Machine In Another World" Isekais that pop up by the dozens.
 
@Cal


What does being bad have anything to do with if a verse's implementation is valid or not? If a person has a bad impression of a whole wiki because someone actually cared to properly index a "bad" verse that can be index by our standards then you can't help that person. Why do we need to impress people?
 
And we wouldn't add them either. At the very least we shouldn't.

You can say the same thing about things like Friends, difference being that people enjoy it as intended. Difference is, nobody in their right mind would make profiles for that, due to it not belonging on the wiki. ID is the same, as it doesn't belong on our wiki, on virtue of being, as I said, absolutely terrible and being the rotten apple that ruins the bunch that is the wiki.
 
Friends is a nin-combat oriented verse. I'm sure there are plenty horrible pieces of fiction that take stuff as parody and are on here.
 
" Why do we need to impress people?"

Because as a wiki that cares about its quality, accuracy, and userbase, we have a sense of pride. And being a joke wiki is going to severely lower morale, to say the very least.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Friends is a nin-combat oriented verse. I'm sure there are plenty horrible pieces of fiction that take stuff as parody and are on here.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are. The difference is that I don't know about them, so I can't argue for their deletion. Rest assured, if I find any of this quality, I will indeed argue for its deletion.
 
Properly indexing a bad verse is showing quality and accuracy. Just because the source material is bad doesn't mean our indexing of the verse is meant to be a joke or a plaything. The only people who would think that already had a negative opinions about the wiki anyway.
 
Accuracy sure, but not quality. We look like the whorehouse that'll take any customers. Again, look at CFC in comparison to DB.
 
Yeah well, I can't really empathise with people whose like for the wiki and morale dies because there are verses on that they find bad.

I certainly don't just quit after looking at a verse that revolves around the main character killing people to steal their abilities and enslaving girls for his harem. I don't care if the blatantly xenophobic, racist and sexist messages of a certain mythos. I am fully awere that Xianxias, wuxias and the likes have main characters that are just objectively bad people.

So what, is bad grammar that is going to make stuff not allowed on? Bad plot? Bad morality? Is the idea of one of the thousands of badges being that enough to make someone lose faith in the wiki?
 
@The real cal howard

No, it shows quality as well. Proper indexing is automatically quality. A person's opinion about the verse has nothing to do with the quality of the indexing.
 
I agree, it shouldn't matter if reapers creek or invisible dragon are terribly written pieces of crap. If they have actual feats and they fit all of the other qualifications they should be allowed even if they are just objectively bad. All that matters is that they follow the rules and we shouldn't make more rules to keep them out
 
I can guarantee this garbage is going to float towards the top of our site given how our wiki treats powerful characters.

If you think that ID is a powerful character, then you must have never been on this wiki before. Any character with any thought-based insta-win hax beats ID. It's AP doesn't matter since it gets AP stomped by all 2-Cs. The only thing it has going for it is its speed, which is kinda hard for new members to find out and is still finite.

It's also far from the top of the site, it's the least popular character with "Invisible" in the name.

It should be basic common sense that works with the quality of someone an 8th grader would pick on shouldn't go on a wiki that tries to be a respectable and notable source.

RIP OPM.

You could make that argument for just about anything. An admittedly extreme example is that slavery being bad is subjective because there's supremacists out there who believe it should still be there.

Good thing we didn't outlaw slavery because "it's bad lol". Even better thing that we never wrote a law to say "everything that is bad is banned!!" Your example isn't even extreme, it just makes no sense.

Because as a wiki that cares about its quality, accuracy, and userbase, we have a sense of pride. And being a joke wiki is going to severely lower morale, to say the very least.

We'll always be a joke to other people anyway no matter what we do. We wank too much or downplay too much, or have dimensional tiering, etc. What actually matters for morale is what the people who use the site think and believe, not what other sites believe.

I'm sure there are. The difference is that I don't know about them, so I can't argue for their deletion. Rest assured, if I find any of this quality, I will indeed argue for its deletion.

I don't think there's any way this doesn't result in people hiding their verses or starting flame wars about them when they're found. Another thing to add is that it's generally hard to tell if a verse is shit or not just by its profile.
 
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