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Verse quality requirements (or lack thereof)

If artstyle mattered then you should've used MS Paint Adventures/Homestuck as opposed to the redrawn OPM. And no, the artstyle of course doesn't matter. The quality of the writing does. Which OPM has in spades and ID doesn't.
 
The real cal howard said:
If artstyle mattered then you should've used MS Paint Adventures/Homestuck as opposed to the redrawn OPM. And no, the artstyle of course doesn't matter. The quality of the writing does. Which OPM has in spades and ID doesn't.
Click to expand...
Art doesn't matter? Well, if you say so.

If it's just writing, then I'd like to repeat Risci's question from earlier:

So what, is bad grammar that is going to make stuff not allowed on? Bad plot? Bad morality?
 
It has a decently coherent storyline. ID is born, then he gets bullied by Colbob (the villain). MC (ID) swear he will get stronger to defeat him. He then goes around the Universe to train, etc. Kill humans, save Earth from Alliens. Meets stronger oponents that he can't beat so he run. Trains and get's stronger to defeat those that once beat him (like any character in story that are revenge driven). More story/fights happens and he finally defeat Colbob but dies.

Basically 90% of revenge stories made. It has, story, it has fights, it has characters good and bad, it has the troope of weak to strong, MC is bad (evil) but seen as good, etc. ID doesn't even have abstract hax or conceptual or smurf things, etc. Beyond his Speed which is still finite, he is nothing really that would make him something controversial.

The only thing bad about the novel is the writting which the author intended.

Like other said above, it doesn't matter how good, how bad the writting (grammar) is as long as the guys/girls who make the profile do it as correct as possible.
 
@Agnaa

All.

Seriously, do you guys not know bad stories when you see it? What, do you guys think Foodfight is actually good?
 
It's subjectiv what each person think is good or bad. You may like a pineapple but someone else will not like it. Because you don't like it, should it be stopped from going on the market?
 
The real cal howard said:
All.

Seriously, do you guys not know bad stories when you see it? What, do you guys think Foodfight is actually good?
Click to expand...
I know bad stories when I see it, but I think Revolutionary Girl Utena is bad, despite that being a revered cult favourite.

I know for a fact that seconds into any attempt of "Delete all verses that everyone agrees is bad" people are going to start disagreeing, and the percentage of people that will disagree will slowly increase.
 
Zaratthustra said:
It's subjectiv what each person think is good or bad. You may like a pineapple but someone else will not like it. Because you don't like it, should it be stopped from going on the market?
Click to expand...
Sure, if pineapple had a taste that was universally reviled. But that's not the case. The verses that this thread talks about, Empress Theresa, Invisible Dragon, Reaper's Creek, etc. are. And if someone told me that they unironically thought those books/movies/etc. are good, I'd tell them they wouldn't know quality if it threw them off a building.
 
I know bad stories when I see it, but I think Revolutionary Girl Utena is bad, despite that being a revered cult favourite.

I know for a fact that seconds into any attempt of "Delete all verses that everyone agrees is bad" people are going to start disagreeing, and the percentage of people that will disagree will slowly increase.

Being in the minority that thinks it's bad isn't the same as being in the minority that thinks its good.

Let them disagree then, like how I'm disagreeing now. The wiki's good name is more than people getting a good laugh because dude x from hated series is on the wiki.
 
Zaratthustra said:
@Overlord
I'm sure he means the original OPM (One) which has bad art but nobody talk since all focus on Murata redrawn one.
Click to expand...
One is not even bad, he's just avarage at drawing tbh, ID instead is written with elementary school quality and grammar
 
Some people read or enjoy it for entertainment. Do you want to tell me that you really like OPM? I dislike it almost as much as I dislike Yhwach. Because I don't like the way they were written should I ask for the verse to be deleted? It's all subjective, and as long as it has a coeherent story no matter how good or bad and its not something taken out of its limits, then it can have a profile.
 
The real cal howard said:
Being in the minority that thinks it's bad isn't the same as being in the minority that thinks its good.

Let them disagree then, like how I'm disagreeing now. The wiki's good name is more than people getting a good laugh.
Click to expand...
Oh, so now it's not just verses that are universally reviled, it's verses that are only liked by a minority. How big can this minority get? 0.1% of people? 1% of people? 10% of people?

I've already responded to that "wiki's good name" sort of point before to no response from you, so I won't bother again.

I'm not defending verses like this for a good laugh. I'm defending them because I think it's the proper application of the rules.
 
.1. You know damn well that there's at most one out of a thousand people who read this and enjoy it unironically. Also...what? Something that only 10% of people like is considered universally reviled. Freddy Got Fingered has a 10%, bro, and that movie is outright said by the creators to be Razzie Bait.

You're not. You're also not the one creating them. The people who are though? Different story.
 
Dienomite22 said:
So we shouldn't give "bad" verses profiles because people will laugh at us? Even if they follow our rules, properly indexed and are accurate?
Click to expand...
Yes. Exactly. I know you're playing me but that's exactly what I think.
 
The real cal howard said:
Seriously, do you guys not know bad stories when you see it? What, do you guys think Foodfight is actually good?
Click to expand...
I really disagree with deleting verses because they're bad because: A) Being viewed as "good" or "bad" is a very subjective thing, B) Even the most acclaimed verses have its haters and C) Being bad or good doesn't makes feats more or less valid.

For example: I dislike Mr. Pickles (though it has its fans), a lot, but that doesn't make the verse's feats any less valid.

Same goes for ID. The writing is absolute garbage, but the feats aren't any less valid because of it
 
Sure but I'm just wondering why you wanna stop there? Everything about this is stupidly awfully arbitrary.

I wasn't saying that 10% means it's good, I was just wondering where you'd stop. If not 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 49%?

You've also left a ridiculous amount of questions unanswered. Before it was about writing quality (exactly how writing quality was measured was never clarified), now it's about how many people like it, seemingly unless those people don't like it because of its artstyle?

I'm also curious how this would apply to video game verses. Hong Kong 97 doesn't have much of a story to find writing quality issues with, but I'd bet that you'd still take issue with it.
 
The real cal howard said:
Dienomite22 said:
So we shouldn't give "bad" verses profiles because people will laugh at us? Even if they follow our rules, properly indexed and are accurate?
Click to expand...
Yes. Exactly. I know you're playing me but that's exactly what I think.
Click to expand...
I don't think I'm playing you, It was a geniune question. Now I want to ask, why should we care? (I am being geniune when I ask because I really don't get it)
 
@Agnaa. I know absolutely nothing about Hong Kong 97, but Kep already said he was planning to get rid of that verse anyway.

Because something that's widely agreed to have a wonderful and great story with a few people here and there who hate it isn't the same as the opposite. That's common sense. There's people out there who hate Citizen Kane. There's people out there that hate Ocarina of Time. Doesn't change that both are considered the best in their medium. Meanwhile, there's people out there that like The Emoji Movie and E.T. Atari 2600. Doesn't make them any less garbage.
 
Yes. Exactly. I know you're playing me but that's exactly what I think.

I don't think I'm playing you, It was a geniune question. Now I want to ask, why should we care? (I am being geniune when I ask because I really don't get it)

Because we have a sense of pride. We like being one of the first places people consider when they want to know how strong a character is, or who would beat whom? We can't have that pride if we're seen as that joke wiki that allowed the published book that details a 12 year old protagonist doing...detailed things I can't say lest I lose my account...have profiles simply because it was Low 2-C and hax.
 
Using the quality of writing to allow or disallow a verse is dumb. I am sorry but that's what it is. If there is a coherent narrative thread, no matter how horrible it is, that can be used for proper scaling and it is it's own thing legitimately, no matter how obscure, nothing else matters.

You are entering an unwinnable scenario that is nothing but a waste of time and energy when a subjective issue like quality and how enjoyable it is, is added as a requirement.

I'll be blunt - what do we ******* care? I sure don't, I only care it is recorded here following the guidelines of accuracy we expect of any profile.
 
You don't necessarily have to know anything about Hong Kong 97, it's just that video game verses often don't have writing issues despite being near-universally considered bad. You should not struggle to come up with examples of this.

I agree but all of those undeniably lie on a spectrum. There are works that are near-universally liked, and works that are near-universally hated, and everything in-between. I was just asking where you'd draw the line on what should be deleted.
 
@Cal

We have two different definitions regarding our sites "sense of pride". To me, our sense of pride should come from being an accurate indexing site. Accurately tiering bad verses as they are depicted upholds our pride. Having rules that prevent just any work being added also does that and already weeds out 90% of "bad" verses. We should take pride in that instead of the impression we want others to have of us.
 
Also, as an aside, Kep's not interested in deleting HK97 any more, if you want to take up that torch.
 
Also, if the best reasoning you can come up for why we should delete verses with a "bad" quality is the impression we give to others visiting the site, that already gives me an idea on the import of quality to form any such decision.

Honestly, what could we ever do that would make us not have someone that hates us or finds this site ridiculous or not credible at all? Nothing, neither can the Best Series Ever, whichever it may be, not have any haters or people that just don't agree with the premise. An impossible goal is the worst sort of reason to support such an useless requirement.
 
I disagree with this whole "verses need to be judged by its quality of the product" as the way we should make profiles. What's wrong with just judging the profiles by how well researched they are and how legit all the descriptions for their tiers, abilities, etc. are? If we judged verses by their actual quality then plenty of very popular verses would be flushed down the drain at this point for their dip in quality.
 
The real cal howard said:
Christ, dudes. There's a difference between Bleach going down the drain and Manos: The Hands of Fate.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's much difference with Manos and Fairy Tail going down the drain tho.
 
So if we start to restrict verses based off their quality that means that movies like:

The Room

Birdemic

Sharknado

And TONS of Bollywood films

Won't be able to get profiles? I mean I get it to a degree but sometimes these can be quite notable if not damn famous. I think that having such profiles diversifies the wiki and attracts attention as well. Now this DOESN'T mean we can accept all trash because honestly I'd rather not have "Who Killed Captain Alex" on our wiki.....that's just plain awful. HOWEVER I would be perfectly fine with "Rubber" being on our wiki since that has a sentient telekinetic tire going around killing people, which is good for profile on our wiki and while still terrible you don't have to bleach your eyes.
 
Well, I think that as long as the verses have coherent story and indexing feats, regardless of quality, they can be added.

I think that what Cal is trying to do is stop another rise of meme profiles that would lead to another hundred of spam matches, that is a fact. But like any other meme they will die after their 15 minutes of fame, we won't give a danm about it after it.
 
Y'know, I've read the arguements on the people against there being verse quality requirements...

and I still don't mesh with it, unless we intend on allowing shit like fanfiction profiles and DBZAbridged profiles. Coherent story and feats that can be indexed should not be our only deciding factors.

The fact that people will spam meme threads ad nauseum about them even in the face of an impending forum move is cause for concern, but secondary here, tbh.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
and I still don't mesh with it, unless we intend on allowing shit like fanfiction profiles and DBZAbridged profiles. Coherent story and feats that can be indexed should not be our only deciding factors.
Click to expand...
They're far from our only deciding factors. We also don't allow fanfiction (which covers stuff like abridged series), we don't allow verses that aren't notable outside of vs debating communities, and we don't allow verses for which there's no reliable English translation possible.

On top of this there's also a dozen other factors which apply to specific genres/mediums of verses.
 
I don't think it's needed, the great majority are obviously against it and there's no forseeable benefit to this. Like, it causes more issues instead just deciding what is permisible and of "enough" quality.

I also don't understand what even is Orc's point, we have other requirements that specifically block a lot of the stuff he's mentioned. There's a reason fics are so absurdly prolific yet there's not a single profile for any of them, despite many being very popular.
 
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