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Vegito (Xeno) VS Yhwach
- Thread starter Primordial_Predominant
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
so how are they scaling Hakai/EE resistance? pretty sure resisting Demigra soul corruption is more fit as baseline.
Surviving Hakai is a much more impressive feat imo
Braking
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i think so.
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It's still relevant in some cases
Soul haxing a billion people at once is lower than a single layer of resistance generally, though there are some exceptions.
Same goes for mind manip as well
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It’s not that it means nothing now, it means that it’s only one of the deciding factors now.
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This is because if it were to be focused onto one person, the increase would be unknown right?
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Yeah, you'd need to prove that a character who can soul hax a billion people at once can focus that same amount on a single person for numbers potency to be relevant.
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So what if they can focus it, but the amount is inf. Then it wouldn’t matter how small the increase in potency might be, because it’s inf right?
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Not sure tbh
- Thread starter
- #54
eh kinda wack
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It’s the same principle as downscaling from a inf ap person right? Any small fraction would still be inf
- 4,113
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Eh not sure as we also have another thread that addresses the issue here too: https://vsbattles.com/threads/mind-manipulation-revision-numbers-aint-everything.124595/
In any case, I don’t know how many layers of resistance Bleach has overcome since it seems more like guesstimate ngl.
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Yeah it may seems that way, but if I not mistaken, it is just the numbers ain’t the sole factor anymore thanks to the staff thread and isn’t left out for that from what I have see.
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I mean for the sake of vs debates it's irrelevant, you have to be able to prove that a character with a feat of manipulating thousands of souls can concentrate that potency onto a single soul, but in most cases it's impossible to prove that definitively, so really numbers don't mean anything.
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I mean if that is the case, then why add a note like this on the hax page: “
Note 2: When judging the potency of hax-based abilities such as Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation, and the resistance against them, there is a variety of factors to be potentially considered. Such as the mechanisms involved, how many people the power can affect, whether it has demonstrated to break through resistances, how great the effects are, etc.
These factors need to be examined with the mechanism in mind, to determine if they actually demonstrate potency. For example, for a mind-controlling gas simply affecting more people with it, by using lots of the gas, would not indicate an increase in potency of the gas as simply more of it was used. The effect couldn't be accumulated to be as strong on a single target as it is on all affected individuals summed up.
Whether a power can overcome a resistance against it based on certain feats has to be determined by comparing the various factors at play. For example, a resistance can be overcome by Mind Manipulation with higher potency in any factor, if the resistance is equal, less or unknown in all other factors. When it comes to resistance that is above the Mind Manipulation in some factors, while the Mind Manipulation that is superior in other factors, one has to see on a case-by-case basis whether a convincing argument can be put forth. Otherwise, such a situation will have an inconclusive result.
How the mechanism of the power (Such as the before-mentioned Mind Manipulation) interacts with the mechanism of the resistance is, of course, also relevant.”
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hax
Which put there recently thanks to that thread.
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Not sure if it is most cases as it seems to going by case by case examples ngl since I am pretty sure.
Also there is also issues about using only numbers as well as say affecting millions of beings that ain’t even resistant to it kinda doesn’t scream overall potency unless it also show to affect those that is resistant to it as well.
In additional to that, overcoming layers of resistances doesn’t seem to being more like the sole factor so I not see how it dances around the issue since using numbers doesn’t always works last I checked.
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The issue now though is that it's basically conjecture as to whether someone will or won't be able to hax or resist hax
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Whats stopping Yhwatch just haxxing Vegito to death? He has reality warping and various other hax that Vegito doesnt resist, knows what does or doesnt work and can infinitely resurrect. Sure hes much slower but Yhwach eventually gets his attack off and Goku dies doesnt he? Yhwach can just warp Fate to make sure he dies.
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I don’t know as there is already a decent chunk of characters that has resist certain haxes and this is more dependent on burden of proof rather than merely conjecture ngl.
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He is questioning the practicality of determining the numbers vs layers.
Would normal users even be able to that??
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Not sure if normal users can do that as not all the users here in VS Battle has in verse knowledge of verses that they are relatively unfamiliar with so this needs to being addressed in a Q&A ngl.
- Thread starter
- #75
Whats Yhwachs extents/feats of reality warp? Also bloodlusted Vegito ends yhwach the first time being impossibly faster and AP advantage. Yhwach inevitably resurrects but does he adapt to probabilty manip because he definitely doesnt close the AP gap. Also is anything he can do other than soul crush to kill Vegito?
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- Thread starter
- #77
how does this future picking work? is there always bound to be a scenario where he has an advantage? because how come he didn't just pick a future (alternate reality more like) where Ichigo just didnt exist? or like something that ensures his victory more than just breaking ichigos bankai? because most of Yhwachs abilities seem very over hyped as of right now especially Reiatsu Crush and Almighty. I tried reading through Bleach a bit but it's too hard to understand for me at this point.
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He sees every possible future simultaneously and he can choose between/modify those futures whenever he wishes
Yhwach not outright killing Ichigo is clearly PIS when he was shown to be capable of doing so, it also has something to do with how he views Ichigo specifically, deciding to let Ichigo see the end of the world instead of killing him which he outright states.
As for Yhwach losing, you'd understand why he lost if you read the manga, a combination of Aizen, Uryu and Jugram led to Yhwach's defeat under very specific circumstances.
Regardless, you bloodlusted him here, so there's absolutely nothing stopping him from fodderizing Vegito with fate hax
- Thread starter
- #79
I concur that by altering the future with fate manip+casuality manip he can best Vegito it would still depend if there was a future wherein Vegito is somehow nerfed also what is the exent to which he can modify these futures? Regardless of which, soul crush seems very wanked.
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Why would Vegito need to be nerfed?
Yhwach doesn't even need The Almighty to beat Vegito here, you made both at their strongest, meaning Yhwach has all the Schrifts, so he has things like Lille's Schrift meaning Vegito can't actually even interact with Yhwach, Yhwach stomps several ways, not just with The Almighty.
How is soul crush wanked?
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