Vegetto should be upgraded to Low 2-C and Gohan is not at SSB level

[StardustSparda]

As proved by Gogeta in DBS Broly, the base form of the fusion is stronger than both Goku and Vegeta (both using Super Saiyan Blue). Saying that Vegetto from the Mirai Trunks arc is weaker than SSB Blue Goku from the ToP is the same as saying that Goku multiplied his power by thousands in his base form.

"Vegetto has never appeared to where he would scale to Low 2-C", he's stronger than Goku SSB from the ToP, that's why he would scale.


Is it stated in the Gohan page that Gohan "Clashed with SSB Goku and forced him to use Kaioke to defeat him. Was stated by the narrator to have power that rivaled Goku's)". This is plain wrong. There's a big difference between "used Kaio-ken to defeat him" and "forced him to use Kaio-ken to defeat him"

Before the official ToP and when Goku fought Bergamo, the Kaiohshin from the Universe 9 said that Goku had a "power that rivals the gods", he only says that when Goku uses his Super Saiyan Blue, but Goku is already stronger than any Kaiohshin at his base form so he is not talking about gods such as Kaiohshins or Kaiohs. So that statemente puts Goku on the same level of Gods of Destruction? No, makes him able to actually rival a God of Destruction even being weaker, the same goes for Gohan against Goku. Trunks also pointed that out.

"Universe level+ as a Super Saiyan Blue (After breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power)"

Base Vegeta managed to fight Jiren and actually held him for more time than SSJBKKx20 Goku, but there's something some people forget about the DB franchise as a whole: exchanging blows don't mean anything. I can give some examples:

At 2:20 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwvS0V3DwrI) Goku SSB Kaio-ken x10 simply beat the crap out of Hit landing more than 10 attacks on him. Hit seems okay, he resisted those attacks. One episode later at the mark of 1:20 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR79TesuHjk) Goku lands one punch on Hit's face, enough to make Hit fall on his knees. Being direct, those attacks from the last episode didn't actually count towards the narrative, just like we've seen base Goku fighting evenly against Ribrianne and then Vegeta SSJ1 having a harder time against her.

 

[XVulkano]

Agreed

 

[HrishikeshM]

i agree with vegetto upgrade there is no way ssb goku who was weaker than base vegetto in zamasu arc got stronger than ssb vegetto in survival arc

it will also affect fusion zamasu and infinite zamasu.....trunks with his spirit sword can be taken as outlier

i do not agree with gohan downgrade he fought many ssb level characters like toppo dyspo koichiarator

jiren was going easy on base vegeta but he was told to be at a hint of his true power against ssb goku

 

[XVulkano]

i agree with vegetto upgrade there is no way ssb goku who was weaker than base vegetto in zamasu arc got stronger than ssb vegetto in survival arc
it will also affect fusion zamasu and infinite zamasu.....trunks with his spirit sword can be taken as outlier

i do not agree with gohan downgrade he fought many ssb level characters like toppo dyspo koichiarator

jiren was going easy on base vegeta but he was told to be at a hint of his true power against ssb goku

I made a post about this explaining the Gohan part:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2967067

But it was closed for no reason (literally).

 

[AguilaR101]

^Discussion Rules

Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade Vegito to Low 2-C via scaling from Kefla or Infinite Zamasu. This topic has been discussed to the point of becoming tiresome and monotonous. Vegito has no indication of scaling to either and the proposal would be unfounded without further proof.

 

[HrishikeshM]

gohan part is wrong but vegetto part is not scaling from kefla or infinite zamasu

it is scaling from goku

 

[HrishikeshM]

gohan part is wrong but vegetto part is not scaling from kefla or infinite zamasu

it is scaling from goku so not against the rule

 

[XVulkano]

^Discussion Rules
Do not create discussion threads trying to upgrade Vegito to Low 2-C via scaling from Kefla or Infinite Zamasu. This topic has been discussed to the point of becoming tiresome and monotonous. Vegito has no indication of scaling to either and the proposal would be unfounded without further proof.

I did not scale from Kefla or Infinite Zamasu. I'm using basic logic. Vegetto is stronger than Goku SSB from the ToP, I made my point on that topic.

 

[XVulkano]

Goku almost died more than once on the Mirai Trunks' arc, fought Hit, and after all that he didn't even overpower Freeza's mental training. Then he jumps from 3-A to Low 2-C (I have no problem with some mortal DBS characters being Low 2-C) because he exchanged blows with Jiren (something even base Vegeta did and Goku himself did in episode 109 before this "major boost") and Vegetto remains the same? This is at least weird.

 

[Mickey1940]

Vegito doesn' have any feats putting him at Low 2C

All we have seen is him beating up Fusion Zamasu who himself is 3A. Vegito hasn't done anything that would imply Low 2C

SSGSS Goku, on the other hand, fought and pushed back Jiren, who is confirmed to be Low 2C

Therefore, since Goku has better feats, he is > Vegito

And yes, it is possible that Goku got expodentially stronger through both Zenkai boosts from UIO1 and UIO2, that's why he's Low 2C

Scaling him to Post-UIO2 SSGSS Kaioken x20 Goku is speculation, cause ther's no concrete scaling chain to compare the 2 of them

Although I myself do highly doubt Vegito is only 3A, there just isn't enough proof to back this up, which is very annoying, but it's something we all need to live with for now

@XVulkano

Are you seriously trying to say that base Vegeta is as strong as Suppressed Jiren?

 

[ZERO7772]

Vegito is trash due to the anime hyping up Jiren to be stronger than Zamasu even in his super suppressed form, Goku's blue form is only low 2-C after he break his limit twice and Vegito doesn't to that.

 

[Mickey1940]

exactly

hence why we don't know enough about him to give him his Low 2C rating, as we don't know how much Vegito was suppressed

also, wasn't Vegito also smacked around a little bit by Fusion Zamasu? I don't remember the fight being so 1 sided

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Vegito isn't going to be upgraded to Low 2-C unless he appears in a future anime series; where he'd most definitely be Low 2-C then if he were ever to reappear. And actually, Gohan legit has been shown to be well into 3-A and was initially on par with SSB Goku before Goku got much stronger.

 

[Tipper17]

I see no reason why vegito shouldn't be low 2-c. ssjb goku trading blows with jiren is nothing but Toei not wanting him to get massacred in seconds like usual.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, we still have a discussion rule about it; Vegito hasn't been shown to be Infinite Zamasu's level and Goku and Vegeta have both sky rocketed during the Tournament of Power.

 

[ZERO7772]

Only way Vegito get low 2-C is if he reappears in future arcs, whuch is, uncertain at this point.

Toriyama doesn't exactly like fusion iirc and Vegito being even in Zamasu arc wasn't his idea to begin with.

 

[fandom_0551E80Y]

An extra thing to keep in mind is that Vegito's sheer power as a ssb in the Future Trunks arc actually drains the amount of time he can stay fused, meaning he has a definite cap to how strong he can be before he will be defused as soon as he is formed. It is possible that Vegito can't ever be low 2-C because the potara fusion cannot handle that level of power, he could defuse immediately as he tries to generate that amount.

 

[ZERO7772]

Vegito time limit is just PIS when we look at other fusion

 

[fandom_0551E80Y]

As well as Kefla's earrings breaking causing her to defuse.

 

[ZERO7772]

Vegito just have a horrible luck, he f*cks up everytime he shows up.

 

[HrishikeshM]

it makes no sense for ssjb vegito to be weaker than ssjb goku after the 2nd uio.....because the fusion powerup is just too darn high for goku to reach in just a few fights

 

[fandom_0551E80Y]

Oh yeah. Look at the Namek Saga from how Vegeta's Zenkai he got from being beaten by Recoome went from being weaker then Recoome, to be able to go toe to toe with first form Frieza.

He jumped in power from 30,000 to 530,000 from one fight.

And then look at how Goku jumped from 8000 in his base or 24,000 with the kaioken times 3 in the Saiyan Saga with his battle against Vegeta. To 3 million in his base or 150 million as a super saiyan with his fight against Frieza on Planet Namek, which only took place a month later.

And then there's Frieza's infamous power boost he got from four months of training that made him skyrocketed past Goku's power that he had achieved through over a decade of intense training including all his super saiyan forms he had acquired.

The Tournament of Power happens a Year after the Future Trunks Saga. So it is not far fetched in thinking that Goku had gotten stronger over that period with his training with Whis where he and Vegteta were stronger then what Vegito exhibited a year prior.

 

[ZERO7772]

>The Tournament of Power happens a Year after the Future Trunks Saga

We don't know that.

Also, DB doesn't work or run or logic so trying to apply logic to it is just a waste of time.

 

[fandom_0551E80Y]

Yeah we do. Look at Bulma at the beginning of the arc. She is 9 months pregnant and gives birth to Bulla/Bra just before the ToP starts. In the Future Trunks arc. There was no mention of her pregnancy nor did she look pregnant at all.

She was born in Age 780 which a year had passed after the Super Dragon Balls were used. So yes. A year had passed since Future Trunks Saga.

 

[Tipper17]

Vegito just have a horrible luck, he f*cks up everytime he shows up.

The hell are you talking about The only time he appeared was buu and Zamasu the latter had immortality that required zeno to nuke him

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, his first Zenkai in Saiyan saga went from Over 8000 in base, Over 24000 with Kaioken x3, to 90000 in base and 180000 with Kaioken x2. Then the next zenkai is what made him jump to 3000000 in base. But PL's are very nonlinear and we shouldn't use them. But it is a good example of how astronomic Zenkai boosts are.

That being said, we don't have proof that Future Trunks saga Vegito is Low 2-C, though he'd undoubtedly be that strong if we ever see him again.

 

[Tipper17]

it makes no sense for ssjb vegito to be weaker than ssjb goku after the 2nd uio.....because the fusion powerup is just too darn high for goku to reach in just a few fights

Agreed

 

[fandom_0551E80Y]

Makes no sense for how Piccolo could go from doing the same training Goku did with King Kai in the Saiyan Saga and fusing with a namekian warrior who's power is dwarfed immensly by first form Frieza that somehow lets Piccolo fight evenly with him in his second form.

That's how Dragon Ball rolls. It can make characters jump in power by huge leaps in a very short time.

 

[ZERO7772]

The hell are you talking about The only time he appeared was buu and Zamasu the latter had immortality that required zeno to nuke him

He appeared in DBH as well and messed up so that's 3 times.

 

[ZERO7772]

Yeah we do. Look at Bulma at the beginning of the arc. She is 9 months pregnant and gives birth to Bulla/Bra just before the ToP starts. In the Future Trunks arc. There was no mention of her pregnancy nor did she look pregnant at all.

She was born in Age 780 which a year had passed after the Super Dragon Balls were used. So yes. A year had passed since Future Trunks Saga.

DBS as a whole takes place across 2 years or so.

 

[Tipper17]

The hell are you talking about The only time he appeared was buu and Zamasu the latter had immortality that required zeno to nuke him

He appeared in DBH as well and messed up so that's 3 times.

>Using non canon garbage heroes

really? At this point your just trolling badly Zamasu is the only case but everyone ****** up and his ass had immortality bailing him and required zeno to destroy him

 

[Tipper17]

Makes no sense for how Piccolo could go from doing the same training Goku did with King Kai in the Saiyan Saga and fusing with a namekian warrior who's power is dwarfed immensly by first form Frieza that somehow lets Piccolo fight evenly with him in his second form.

That's how Dragon Ball rolls. It can make characters jump in power by huge leaps in a very short time.

Namekian fusion is really not the same and given nail was impressed by piccolo power the thing isn't ridiculous

 

[fandom_0551E80Y]

Makes no sense for how Piccolo could go from doing the same training Goku did with King Kai in the Saiyan Saga and fusing with a namekian warrior who's power is dwarfed immensly by first form Frieza that somehow lets Piccolo fight evenly with him in his second form.

That's how Dragon Ball rolls. It can make characters jump in power by huge leaps in a very short time.

Namekian fusion is really not the same and given nail was impressed by piccolo power the thing isn't ridiculous

Don't get me started on Kami who is only dragon ball level strong that somehow made Piccolo stronger then a Super Saiyan.

 

[Hizack123]

Ugh. No.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think the thread was concluded, so I will close this.