Vasher (Warbreaker) vs. Giorno Giovanna (JoJo)

[Dargoo_Faust]

This might give incredibly slanted results in either direction, but the parallels between Awakening and Giorno's power were too easy to pass up.

Speed is equal. Vasher is equipped with Nightblood in its sheath, Giorno is without Gold Experience Requiem. Combatants start 100 meters away, and have an a dozen minutes of preparations to awaken/bring life to objects around themselves. Combatants are in-character, battle takes place in the Court of the Gods in T'Telir, minus any inhabitants. Vasher has enough Breath to reach the Fourth Heightening.

Vasher -

Giorno Giovanna -

Incon -

 

[Zel97]

I dont know anything about warbreaker so pardon me if i say something wrong


Whats stopping gio from incapping him via willpower manipulation? Plus he has no resistance to causality manipulation so nightblood wont really hit gio nor ger. Precog cant see rtz to begin with,as seen when epitath was unable to see gio reversing causality. Vasher's empathetic manipulation can hit gio quite hard but ger doesnt really rely on gio's conciousness as seen when it talked in a timeless void when fighting diavolo without giorno's knowledge

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Giorno isn't using GER for this match, though?

 

[Zel97]

Omg im blind

 

[Zel97]

Wont vote yet but im leaning towards vasher,bit busy rn so i'll continue later

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Gotcha.

Giorno might be capable of resisting Nightblood's influence, considering his stupidly strong willpower, although whether Nightblood would compel Giorno to pick it up or induce revulsion in Giorno is anybody's guess. Either might produce valuable openings for Vasher if Giorno doesn't pull himself out of the effects very fast.

Notably though Vasher won't be inclined to draw Nightblood unless he's certain that Giorno will kill him, which gives Giorno an opening while Vasher is still relatively unaware of his powers (although you could argue a Stand would count as something stupidly invested, which Vasher could sense with the fourth Heightening). He could sense spren with it, which are close enough to Stands in regards to being projections from the Cognitive realm.

 

[O.m.nikk]

This battle is really interesting and difficult to analyze.

First of all we can look through the numbers. "Enough Breath to reach the Fourth Heightening" should be considered as 1000 breaths presicely, as far as I understand. That would mean that Vasher will loose all bonuses from the 4-th heightening in the preparation stage. However, he might (and probably will as soon as he sees how bad the battle is going) resort to his natural form as the returned with the fifth heightening to retain the bonuses.

Then I would like to mention Nightblood numbers. Vivenna had third heightening (600-1000 breaths) when she gave her Breaths to Vasher before he decided to use the Nightblood. Actually it would be capped at 900 at most, since she had prepared awakened items. Then use quote "in a matter of minutes, the Breath Vivenna had given him had been reduced by half". Sadly, "matter of minutes" is tricky, lets use 2 minutes. That would mean that Breath consumption rate is about 150-225+ Breaths per minute, depending on how long the sword was drawn. I think that is more than enough for this battle, regardless of how it will go.

One question bothers me: what will happen if unsheathed Nightblood hits something, that was brought to life by Giorno? I see three possible answers:

1. Nightblood hax will overwhelm GE reflection ability and living creature will disappear;

2. Nightblood attack will be reflected back to the Nightblood. As it is the invested Shardblade, she sword will just be knocked back, without additional drawbacks;

3. Attack will be reflected back to Vasher, causing instant death.

I am leaning towards the second option, but I would like to hear other opinions.

As far as I see it, Vasher will prepare his awakened cloak/ropes/boots/shirt, bring 5-10 set of awakened clothes, take some spares and that's it. His prepared clothes will give him strength/speed advantage, but his cloak will not be able to protect him from the stand, since he will not see it. His awakened "soldiers" will follow him and comply his commands, whereas Giorno can't control his creations with that precision. Really hard to guess what will happen, but if we assume that their creations are busy with each other, I think Vasher would win only with unsheathed Nightblood. I doubt that Vasher can survive a building level attack, if we take profile stats.

I won't vote for now though.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

One question bothers me: what will happen if unsheathed Nightblood hits something, that was brought to life by Giorno? I see three possible answers:

1. Nightblood hax will overwhelm GE reflection ability and living creature will disappear;

2. Nightblood attack will be reflected back to the Nightblood. As it is the invested Shardblade, she sword will just be knocked back, without additional drawbacks;

3. Attack will be reflected back to Vasher, causing instant death.

I am leaning towards the second option, but I would like to hear other opinions.

Well, it depends on how you want Giorno's abilities to cross the threshold into Sanderson's magic systems.

Sanderson would consider what Giorno does similar to Awakening, in that he's investing an object to transform it into a living being temporarily, with a number of other effects. If that's the case, Nightblood would suck in all the Investiture Giorno put into the living being, transforming it back into an inanimate object, then poofing it, circumventing the retribution effect entirely.

That said, if we don't try and equte Giorno's powers to something realted to Investiture, Giorno isn't Investing objects, so Nightblood would obliterate the object as it would anything else. The retribution effect happens, however since Nightblood is taking in as much Investiture from the object as the retribution effect would take out of Nightblood, it turns out to be a net loss of zero on Nightblood's part. It likely wouldn't be reflected to Vasher since Nightblood is a sentient being with a soul, and Nightblood is weilding Vasher arguably more than Vasher is weilding Nightblood.

That said, I really doubt Vasher would draw Nightblood that early, he'd want to try taking out Giorno with his bread and butter tactics before getting desperate enough to actually draw the sword.

 

[O.m.nikk]

That said, if we don't try and equte Giorno's powers to something realted to Investiture, Giorno isn't Investing objects, so Nightblood would obliterate the object as it would anything else. The retribution effect happens, however since Nightblood is taking in as much Investiture from the object as the retribution effect would take out of Nightblood, it turns out to be a net loss of zero on Nightblood's part. It likely wouldn't be reflected to Vasher since Nightblood is a sentient being with a soul, and Nightblood is weilding Vasher arguably more than Vasher is weilding Nightblood.

Sounds legit. I haven't thought about measuring the effect by energy gain/loss. But if we take the information from Giorno's profile:

That said, I really doubt Vasher would draw Nightblood that early, he'd want to try taking out Giorno with his bread and butter tactics before getting desperate enough to actually draw the sword.

I agree with that, but I think it's good to let others know about possible outcomes of the Nightblood use.

I have realized something else. How would Giorno attack awakened set of clothes? Be it building level attacks or not, since his stand has decreased speed (speed equalization), punching attacks would be terrible ineffective against them. It was shown in the Warbreaker that such awakened clothing sets were able to hold back against group of soldiers with significant number advantage, staying effective as long as their fabric wasn't cut into pieces by slashing attacks with swords. That would mean that GE needs two limbs to be able to harm awakened clothing, ripping it apart, unless he uses something else. Still, if Vasher sends two or more awakened sets to attack together and throw an awakened rope, it would be impossible for GE with equalized speed to react to all of it at once, resulting Giorno's defeat. Vasher would still be killed in one hit from GE but I doubt that Vasher is reckless to attack by himself from the start/not being cautious, knowing nothing about the opponent.

I'll vote for Vasher.