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Vampire Hunter D (Akashic Records Slight Downgrade)

Tatsumi504 said:
I guess we can leave the NEP and immeasurable speed revision for another time
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Nahhhh immeasurable speed should go
Clearly that’s just range at work rather than actual display of speed

NEP?
Either leave it as it right now or change to to reflect what most of us have agreed on.
That I think being Limited NEP2 and 3 with Aspects whatever we can all agree on

That or let us see what NEP expert we can get in here to evaluate this
 
Ss3micah said:
NEP?
Either leave it as it right now or change to to reflect what most of us have agreed on.
That I think being Limited NEP2 and 3 with Aspects whatever we can all agree
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I'm still against some aspects and Eldemade against the nature (i think) so we need some experts here.
If we can't get any then i think it's ok to apply the obvious changes whichbwould be NEP 2 with aspect 1
 
Tatsumi504 said:
I'm still against some aspects and Eldemade against the nature (i think) so we need some experts here.
If we can't get any then i think it's ok to apply the obvious changes whichbwould be NEP 2 with aspect 1
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Eldemade is already addressed by me and Glassman (a staff). If you are referring to Viet, then he is also addressed by both me and Bob.
Your concerns have been addressed, but I have yet to get any counterarguments for whatever I explained.
But it's fine, I have asked @glassman12 to comment and give his verdict/opinion on aspect types.
 
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OMG BumpI I can’t believe this is still ongoing LOLOL 🤣🤣🤣
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Sir, I know this is supposed to be a joke about I don't think it's nice to put this emote on a thread where people are putting their effort in while you're just bumping things from what I've seen.

Anyway, I think @RM97 did great in explaining things. Specially for the NEP part, so I agree.
 
OnsokunoSonic said:
Sir, I know this is supposed to be a joke about I don't think it's nice to put this emote on a thread where people are putting their effort in while you're just bumping things from what I've seen.
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It was just a joke, no Ill will not malicious or mocking intent behind it
But of course, if you and/or others are not appreciative of that kind of gesture then I shall of course refrain from doing so

OnsokunoSonic said:
Anyway, I think @RM97 did great in explaining things. Specially for the NEP part, so I agree.
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Welp, Alrighty
 
If that’s the explanation for how the Akashic records are treated in terms of NEP then I’m fine with type 2, just add the scans for it.
 
Type 4 seems a little iffy with the explanations unless further elaborated his info is gone, and I guess to an extent type 5 unless further explored but the other 3 is fine
 
RM97 said:
Don't see what's the issue here. Fount of Life/Source of Life is a fundamental aspect/or the conceptual energy that exists in everything including soulless non-existent beings and objects. It'll be a Type 2 Concept as per the Wiki's Standards on Conceptual Manipulation. Cutting the Fount of Life will get you erased completely such as in the case of the Nobles in Fog Island, Duke Gilzen, Elder God, Toma, Viscount Kraken, etc all of whom got their founts cut. Some nobles can survive even after getting their fount of life cut but cannot regenerate back their fount of life and will definitely die/vanish. D can not only survive getting his fount of life cut but can also regen it back. Moreover, D doesn't even need this Fount of Life or Energy since he is connected to and gets directly powered by the Sacred Ancestor aka the Void.

I should also mention that D will get all aspects of NEP Types.
  1. Type 1: D has a non-existent soul.
  2. Type 2: D's true self/soul lacks the Conceptual Energy which is present everywhere in everything and drives them.
  3. Type 3: Soul and Mind are implied to be the same thing as stated by Countess Genevieve in Volume 24 that the mind is supported by the soul and the soul's destruction means the mind's destruction.
  4. Type 4: Self-evident that D is not bound by the Akashic Records whose information governs all of reality and even forcefully writing him does nothing.
  5. Type 5: Also Self-Evident, Akashic Records holds the history of everything in creation, and simply removing information about something will make them get erased from history as if it never existed in the first place such as in the case of Kima. D does not have a history at all due to not being bound by the AR. Matter of fact, we have given Monika from DDLC the same Type 5 where the Information also plays a similar role as in VHD, so it's viable in D's case too.
I should also mention that D's NEP Nature gets changed to NEP 2 and 3.
Type 3 is for Obvious Reasons as mentioned by OP.
Type 2 is because, in VHD, there are Non-Existent things and beings. For example, Non-Existent weapons from Volume 2, Non-Existent entities from Volumes 21 and 24, Non-existence itself as shown in volume 11, etc. Finally, from Volume 25, we get the Nothingness, which is a realm of pure non-existence where no Mathematical Construct can exist and where anything (including abstract entities such as the vampires made from Dreams in Volume 5 and concepts such as Conceptual Energy/Fount of Life/Source of Life) that gets dropped completely ceases to exist. So essentially in the verse, we have Existence (1) and Non-Existence (0). Akashic Records exist beyond all of these and govern all of creation including both (1) & (0) while containing their information. However, D does not exist as part of the Akashic Records and is completely removed from it. Enforcing his information into the records does nothing too which proves that he is neither (1) nor (0), and is beyond them both.
Thus, his Limited Non-Existent Physiology rating will have Nature Types 2 & 3, Aspects 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5.
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This essentially
 
ImmortalDread said:
May I see evidences for type 5?
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The evidence

Well at Tatsumi points out regarding aspect 3,
Tatsumi504 said:
Not sure about the NEP types but the aspects need evaluation from NEP experts. Also, IIRC DT said you can't two NEP types
  1. Mind aspect is shaky in the sense that the mind being bound to the soul doesn't mean nonexistent soul= nonexistent mind.
  2. Information adpect looks like it's a case of "D isn't in the records thus his info doesn't exist.
  3. As for history it's equalizing "D" not being in the records and the removal of anything from the records makes it not exist= D's history is nonexistent.
Click to expand...

As RM97 retorts regarding aspect 3, 4 and 5
RM97 said:
Can you post where it was stated by DT? Because we have profiles from different series where two NEP natures can exist simultaneously.
  • The mind aspect I have is already explained in my NEP post. You're essentially arguing that the Mind can exist independently of the soul (irrespective of the latter's destruction or not), in which case the burden of proof is on you to show that to be the case since you're arguing a positive.
  • The records store information on both existence and non-existence in creation as some sort of Conceptual Hub. Even when Valcua forcefully wrote D into the Akashic Records, he could not control him (let alone even see his actions). Not to mention, if your information does not exist in or gets erased from the records, it means that it never existed in the first place, to begin with (Such as in the case of Kima or when Matthew threatened to erase the World/Universe from the records). So by Occam's Razor, D's info not existing in the records just means that he is nonexistent.
  • Well yes. Whataboutism aside, I explained why and we even have Monika from DDLC get type 5 because of the similar nature of Data/Information in the verse.
Click to expand...

So take it as you will
 
You can have two different NEP, @Tatsumi504 is mistaken, but still. I need to see the evidence of type 5. I understand soul/mind argument, they are interconnected.
 
ImmortalDread said:
I need to see the evidence of type 5.
Click to expand...
Don’t quote me on this but I think RM97 argument for type 5 is because the Akashic Records holds the history of everything in creation and D does likely does not have a history at all due to not being present or bounded within the AR and the AR itself has no information in regards to D’s history since D is absent from the AR

That and smth similar to Monika from DDLC’s case
 
ImmortalDread said:
So it is an argument without an evidence of statement or feat?
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It’s stated D isn’t in the AR
And it’s stated the AR contains the history of everything across the verse

So my guess is RM97 argument for Type 5 is:
AR contains the history of everything across of verse + D is completely absent from the AR = D has no history present within AR = Aspect 5
 
Theglassman12 said:
Type 4 seems a little iffy with the explanations unless further elaborated his info is gone, and I guess to an extent type 5 unless further explored but the other 3 is fine
Click to expand...
Types 4 and 5 are based on the Information argument.
Essentially, Akashic Records govern the entirety of Creation and its past, present, and future while keeping information of everything there is which can be manipulated to change the Universe:
The fog wasn’t really fog. It was the substance that filled the universe—the ether. It was said to be imprinted with records of the entire universe, spanning the past, present, and future. Even the science of the Nobility hadn’t been able to decipher those records, and history contained the names of only a few individuals who could read what was written there. They included Nostradamus, Abramelin, Paracelsus, and Swedenborg. The Sacred Ancestor was also on that list. One theory held that it was after reading the record one night that the Sacred Ancestor began his mysterious experiments. The “akashic record” was the general term given to the great ether that recorded all of creation.
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“Did you think I wouldn’t? I’ve said it before. The ether that fills my territory is imprinted with every creature in my domain, living or dead. It even contains the thoughts that were, are, or will be in the past, present, and future. Reading it is a Herculean task. Being who I am, it’s possible. It’s something I, Valcua, alone can do.”
Click to expand...
He could read the record. The past, present, and future of everything in the universe . . .
Click to expand...
I have pointed this out before that the first "Universe" mentioned in the line "The fog wasn’t really fog. It was the substance that filled the universe—the ether." is referring to the realm of the Akashic Records, and not the main Universe. I will also point out that Akashic Records governs not just the Universe but the entire Creation as mentioned above "The “akashic record” was the general term given to the great ether that recorded all of creation." This is supplemented by two facts: 1) Existence of alternate universes, dimensions, quantum realms, supernatural realms, mental planes, etc being made even before Volume 17 where Akashic Records appears. and 2) Akashic Records being inaccessible to the Nobles (and only accessed by a Vault/Doorway created by the Sacred Ancestor) who are capable of accessing alternate universes, higher dimensions, non-existence void realms, quantum realms, supernatural realm of Shangri-La, and so on.

I would also like to point out that the Scope of Creation here is referred to everything below the records which would include all of these as well as what I have mentioned above in my comment.
Now, just meddling with the records (let alone even erasing the information from the records) can erase you from all of history as if you never existed in the first place. For example, Kima, the loyal servant of both D and Valcua, amped himself up and decided to take matter into his own hands and change the records by going into the Akashic Records dimension, but he got wiped out of all of Creation.

After sacrificing the last of Callas’s life and now adding his own, what was Kima trying to read in the ether?
“Open the door to the vault,” he ordered.
Somewhere there was the creak of hinges that resembled a protracted scream. The milky whiteness crushed in around Kima. No matter how dense the super alloy used to contain it, the ether always seeped through it like some kind of ghostly matter.
“Was bringing him back to life the right thing to do? And what is he? I shall travel as far as my ability allows, Lord Valcua!” And then, after a pause, Kima added, “And Lord D!”
Click to expand...
A foglike substance began to fill the light. It glittered like the myriad stars of the Milky Way.
“If the record leaks out, it could warp the very fabric of the universe. I must prevent that. Hurry, D!”
From nowhere in particular, something like fog began to flood the room.
“It’s a fragment of the akashic record,” the Sacred Ancestor said. “Someone has managed to get a peek at it, though its contents are difficult to decipher even for me. But that which isn’t meant to be seen truly shouldn’t be seen. Having broken that taboo, the person’s existence is erased from history. And now look! The akashic record seeps from the vault, and the universe as we know it may end. The history carved into that space-time is vanishing. Because history is made of time.”
By this point, the existence of the man called Kima had been wiped from Valcua’s brain, and also from the memories of every living creature that knew him.
Click to expand...
Matter of fact, it is possible to erase things from the records themselves just by erasing their information from the ether as Matthew tried to do with the World/Universe:
“Stay back, D,” he said, straightening himself up. “You understand, don’t you? I obtained part of the Sacred Ancestor’s power. And the great Valcua, too, is within me. Alone, there’s nothing you can do. Ha! I can read this. I can read the whole akashic record. Valcua is telling me to resurrect him—but what the Sacred Ancestor has to say is even more incredible. He says I should erase this world completely from the record. Interesting, isn’t it, D? Which should I do?”
Click to expand...

So we know that everything in creation (whether its existence or non-existence), is part of the Akashic Records, and that erasing anything from the records completely erases that thing from all of creation across history. However, D does not exist in the records or part of the records. This shown to be the case when Valcua meets him for the first time and says this:
“I’ve heard you’re a Vampire Hunter. I’ve also heard you’re a dhampir. However, I know nothing else about you. And I, the great Valcua, can consult the ether that records everything in the universe—the akashic record. D, who are you?”
Click to expand...
Matter of fact, later even though Matthew was trying to know who D was and change the events, he was very surprised despite knowing fully well at that point in the story that D, the Vampire Hunter, is the son of the Sacred Ancestor.
“Ah, yes. D, let’s see who you really are.”
A fiendish look spread across Matthew’s face, and he stuck his right hand out in front of his chest, plucking a bit of fog from the air. He could pull whatever he liked from the record at any place and time.
As Matthew stared at the fog, his expression changed immediately.
“Impossible . . . It can’t be!” the boy exclaimed, his surprise so great his face wore a look of utter stupefaction as he stared at D.
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The fact that D's information truly does not exist at all is supplemented by the fact that when Valcua tried to forcefully write D and make it so that he will follow his command, D disobeyed.
“Dear me, at some point I’ve become inured to the Hunter’s beauty. Very good. D, drink her blood. Then you may leave this land as if nothing ever happened and continue hunting Nobility. I’ll have nothing further to do with the humans now. Here in my castle I shall explore the wisdom of the universe for all eternity.”
Sue felt something clamp down on her shoulders with substantial strength. She didn’t want to know how the face of the young man behind her appeared as he looked at her.
“It’s okay, D,” the girl said, and then she glared at Valcua. “You still have something against me. Until you move beyond those feelings, you’ll never be the ultimate anything!”
“D,” Valcua said, prodding the Hunter. “It’s written in the akashic record. Your fate is to do exactly as I told you. Go ahead and drink.”
Sue shut her eyes.
A white fog drifted through their world.
Hot breath fell on the nape of Sue’s neck.
I knew his breath would be warm, she thought.
A mysterious peace of mind enveloped Sue.
Her right shoulder grew lighter unexpectedly. Reaching his hand out before him, D had caught hold of something.
“No! You—” Valcua cried out in shock.
He saw two points of light blazing from the depths of the fog, so red they froze his blood—they were D’s eyes.
“You—you son of a bitch,” the grand duke stammered. “You can change the akashic record?”
Sue felt the warmth of the hand that rested on her left shoulder. There was no mistaking the strong palm of the hand of the man who’d kept her safe.
“You’ve played me false!” Valcua shouted, although whom that was directed at was unclear.
Click to expand...
Another case is when Matthew tried to change the records so that he will live again because he instinctively knew that D will cut him down. But this also failed. Both of these cases are due to the fact that D does not exist as part of the Records and his information truly does not exist, so adding his information in the records does actually nothing at all.
The Hunter had closed to within six feet of him, but Matthew wasn’t worried. He knew although it appeared to the naked eye to be six feet, the space between them was infinite.
“What are you going to do about Sue?” D asked.
“Sue? Who’s that? All that aside, I’m surprised . . . Don’t tell me you . . . Oh, Sue? I have plans for her. I’m going to take her at my leisure. I’m changing the record to reflect that. Actually, you’re going to cut me down here, but I’ll change that too. Don’t worry. I’ll arrange it so that after I’ve had my way with her, she bites off her own tongue and dies—”
As the boy laughed uncontrollably, a silvery flash zipped to the end of his nose.
“What the—” Matthew exclaimed, reeling back and putting his hand to the tip of his nose. Something red dripped from it.
“You cut me?” he said, purple madness turning to white fear. “How could you cut me? Between you and me, there must be—”
His eye burned with red reflected from D’s eyes. Eyes narrowed with rage, fangs peeking from vermilion lips—it was clearly the face of a vampire.
“Stop, D! You really are the Sacred Ancestor’s own—”
The boy’s words were cut short by a stark flash of light.
As he heard the sound of Matthew’s body falling, D turned his gaze to where the boy’s head lay at his feet.
Click to expand...
So all in all, D does not at all exist as part of the Akashic Records and his information itself does not exist there. I know some people will likely argue that D's information not being in the Akashic Records means that he exists outside of the records but not that he is non-existent. But the issue is that information of both existence (1) and non-existence (0) exists as a monolith in the records of the ether. If this very information is erased or not present in the records, then it very clearly not only ceases to exist but also becomes something that lacks both binaries aka an idealistic form of non-existence.
A big supporting evidence comes from the fact that D's father (Sacred Ancestor) himself is a Non-Existent entity who is also not part of the records and exists outside of creation, as such, his Son being non-existent is valid.

So tl:dr:
  • AR records information about all of creation across the past, present, and future.
  • Simply meddling with the records, let alone erasure of the information, can wipe you out from history as if you never existed.
  • D does not exist as part of records and thus his information is nonexistent.
  • Trying to enforce D as part of the records by forcefully writing him in the records does not do anything at all to him as his information is something that is entirely different from the monolith of 1 and 0 binaries of creation which is registered/recorded as part of the AR.
 
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RM97 said:
So tl:dr:
  • AR records information about all of creation across the past, present, and future.
  • Simply meddling with the records, let alone erasure of the information, can wipe you out from history as if you never existed.
  • D does not exist as part of records and thus his information is nonexistent.
  • Trying to enforce D as part of the records by forcefully writing him in the records does not do anything at all to him as his information is something that is entirely different from the monolith of 1 and 0 binaries of creation which is registered/recorded as part of the AR.
Click to expand...
@ImmortalDread
What you think?
 
Would rather give a possibly rating for NEP aspect type 5, since this is only an assumption. All this is only strong evidence for type 4, not type 5.
 
I won't say that this is an assumption because that's what happened to Kima whose erasure removed him from History itself since information dictates the past, present, and future and thus, being Type 4 non-existent will automatically lead to Type 5 in this case. We also have a precedent case of Monika from DDLC getting the very same types because of the same reason of Information governing History, Concepts, etc.
But I will wait for mods to check this.
 
@RM97 what are we going to do here? it seems the OP lost interest in this thread so the only way is for you or someone else is to put it on the profile since im not knowledgeable enough.
 
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