Uzui Tengen vs Santana (Demon Slayer vs Jojo)

[Nehz_XZX]

Them adapting away the vulnerability at their neck doesn't mean that they are less vulnerable to sunlight overall. They'd only be less vulnerable to the sunlight in the Nichirin blade in an overall sense. I don't think that there is any mention of the Nichirin sword affecting their other body parts now to a lesser degree after their neck became less vulnerable.

That's not Muzan being resistant to the sun, that's him making more flesh as protection to buy himself more time to get away. He's so vulnerable against it that he is fearing for his life and desperately trying everything he can to not die. He pretty much has a panic attack over the sun rising. The only reason he lasts any amount of time in the sun at all is that he can generate a lot of flesh to cover himself with. He was still inside there in his combat form if the visual depiction of the scene of him turning Tanjiro into a demon can be trusted.

Adding to the points regarding demons that have adapted away their particular vulnerability to Nichirin sword decapitation, Muzan said that the sunlight would destroy him in an instant, so I really doubt that any demon other than Nezuko and Tanjiro has any degree of resistance against direct sunlight exposure at all. None of the demons who managed to adapt to the point where beheading them with Nichirin swords wouldn't kill them have shown or been stated to have become more resistant to sunlight in any other way other than in this specific context. There is no statement or showing of them withstanding Nichirin sword slashes and stabs better in areas other than the neck and even the strongest demon of them all who had an immunity to Nichirin sword decapitation long before the Upper Moons did would have disintegrated in the sun in an instant if it hadn't been for the flesh shield he generated. Given that decapitation through Nichirin swords is the only thing the adaption has been shown to help against there is no reason to assume that it is anything more than that.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

It doesn't seem like as if Armorchompy is going to continue with this discussion, so if no one has changed their opinion on who is winning this match, going to make a case for Tengen winning or argue that this is a stomp, then this match can probably be added.

 

[Chariot190]

It's pretty cool when you don't get notified for a page and only find out because you see the thread pop up in what's new.

 

[Chariot190]

Okay, that's indeed good for Santana's range though whatever parts he stretches to attack Tengen will be in Tengen's range of attack and therefore be vulnerable to his Nichirin swords

Yes but Santana isn't limited to just doing a single part or not, he can control his whole body to that degree, sure his finger gets chopped off, but that doesn't mean the various other parts would, for example, lets say Santana does a Wham and bends his body while also opening it up like a spread, uses his bone blades, and extends his fingers, his foe can't take them all out at once, sooner or later he's gonna get touched, and one touch is all he needs to drain Uzui of all blood, turning him into a husk, or to use the acid manip and so on.

I recall the Pillarmen contorting their body form for dodging but did they use their Body Control to have a piece of their body separate in the series? Simply ripping pieces out with his hands doesn't seem practical in the middle of fighting.

As we see in a above scan, ACDC literally splits his arm in half down the middle at a whim to dodge an attack, he also separated his brain from his body when things started to go south. Wham can do it with his horn. Santana himself has displayed control over dozens of stray chunks of himself and so on. Vampires and Zombies have shown the ability to seperate parts of the body as well, whether it be minor like Tarkus firing his fangs out or what not. Wham's arms also got injured once so he decided to separate his arms to launch them like a rocket punch to pin and choke Joseph out (id grab scans but eh cant right now, this one should be obvious though, it was a pretty popular fight) preventing him from moving. They can do this just fine, they don't usually do that in a fight, as a lead or anything, but they very much can and have shown the capability to do so many times and will if they need to.

The acid would apply but how fast can Santana recover from being petrified?

Probably nigh instantly or at least close to it, as long as he's out of the light (or in this case the sunlight energy dissipates or whatever), if he's stone and has a continuous supply of light hitting him once stone, he can't turn back, but if there's none he's good to go, it's why they keep him under bulbs 24/7, the doc even says that while stone Santana isn't asleep, and that he's actually cognizant in that state and if he was taken out of the light he'd simply reassemble himself, thus they gotta keep that shit up at all times. Basically as long as he isn't being ****** with by sunlight at that given moment, it's just a matter of turning back.
To further that, we see with other Pillar Men be able to return to their normal state the moment the UV light is gone, a good example would be Wham, where he had dozens of military grade UV lights shining on him, but the moment he covered them with blood, he broke free instantly. So the answer would be as soon as the light, or I guess light energy, is gone.

That would be because of the lower surface area a blade covers compared to an explosion. Something that can tank an explosion can still take damage from a sharp edge that's driven into it with energy equivalent to the explosion, so assuming that the explosions can damage everything the blades can would be fallacious.

Yeah sure, but if you're arguing that explosions do **** all to Santana, why would we assume the blade could either? Of course, the area does help, piercing and slashing and all that, indeed that can mitigate durability to an extent, but to what extent? If a similar AP thing can't hurt him, when do we say the sword won't either? Maybe his durability is enough to mitigate the sword as well? See the issue? You just opened a whole can of worms that might make this a stomp or not. Tbh it doesn't matter a whole lot in the long run but still, would prefer not to enter complex or unknown variables.

did say that it would take time and that the Nichirin swords' effects would probably be slower for him than it would be for demons which is something that I did in fact mention in an earlier comment.

Precisely, it's gonna be slower, what's that mean? It means Santana is going to be able to retaliate back, an eye for eye, difference being he only needs one hit to win, while his foe can't even truly kill him.
Santana gets hit, he hits his foe back. Santana gets hit with sun blade, he retaliates back as he can still throw punch even while starting to petrify, and so on (We explicitly see him toss a punch against Joseph while starting to petrify in sunlight, and nearly blows Joseph's arm off, we also see him and jump).

I would also like it if you don't accuse of feigning something purely because I'm pointing things out that as far as I'm aware aren't quite in line with what you argued.

Feigning might be the wrong word, either way, you can very clearly see he can act, attack and move while standing directly in sunlight, saying "well light reflected in the well ****** him over", while true, doesn't change the fact that he can act, move and attack while standing directly in daylight, it's not something he likes, but he can do it even if not forever.
Your argument comes off as, because the well light turned him to stone, that means normal sunlight is enough and thus the blades will work perfectly fine, but that's foregoing the showings immediate prior that tells us that no, by itself, sunlight isn't enough, it does work, but it's not immediate, it'd take a bit, maybe a minute or so especially as even in the case of the well, he wasn't instantly petrified.

To just assume that I'm arguing in bad faith will just make things more tedious for both of us. Was it stated that reflection makes the sunlight more effective? If so, then I'd like to see that if you don't mind.

Well for starters, we can straight up see that to be the case, dude is standing directly in sunlight, and while he's being petrified, he's still capable of action, it is indeed turning him to stone, but it's a process, not instant.
Then he jumps into a well, and the reflective light is blinding and turns him to stone before he can dive beneath the water. That alone shows us that yeah ***** kinda ******. But we're shown this later too, most notably with Aja, that is stated to amplify Hamon and even natural sunlight by simply reflecting it a bunch, not how it works irl but Araki seems to think if you reflect light it increases the potency of it. we also see this with Caesar who uses his bubbles to refract sunlight to make like lasers.
Tbh if you just want the Aja lines I could give that, it's explicitly stated reflection of the light magnifies it, up to millions of times due to repeating that process. Might even be a 6251 scan talking about light, reflection and stuff but I'll need to translate that, I'll hit up Redgrave I guess.

Didn't he instantly go with Joseph into the well? Sounds like as if he didn't think as if he should stay in the sun too long though he did show that he can act for a while under the influence of the sunlight which isn't something I denied.

Instantly? No. But he definitely wanted in there (In fact he stood around for a solid like 20 seconds), and of course, why wouldn't he? That ***** painful and he's still gonna petrify if he doesn't go somewhere safe, please don't argue that because he was going for the well it means he can't function in daylight, because we see him do exactly that. How long? Well that's another matter entirely, whether it's 1 minute or five, or even half a minute, it's obviously not forever, it is a emergency. Point is, he can, has and will be able to act if struck by a blade, he will petrify, until the energy dissipates, but he can still function, albeit not permanently, while inflicted with that energy.

had the impression that Santana was petrified due to being exposed to sunlight on his front and back though if it's specifically due to sunlight being reflected, then I'd like it if I can have that cleared up.

I could see why you'd think that, you're not wrong, but that doesn't seem to be the whole reason either, Joseph does say that with the sun hitting him from the back and the sun bouncing off the reflection, so there being two sources was definitely a factor, but imo it was more about how he was getting a double dose, not that he was hit both front and back (Though the anime does word it like that a bit, manga less so), given he was standing in the middle of a courtyard while the afternoon sun hit him directly, he was being hit by all sides then and there. It being front back in the wall isn't really why but more because he was getting a double helping with nowhere to go imo. Though fact of the matter is that Part 2 and reflecting light to magnify it is a common theme. But in this case you could say it's a bit of a combination of a few things if anything.

And even still, it wasn't instant, Joseph had to actually smash his feet on the well to slow down the descent to a grind as wee see Santana could still act for a handful of seconds despite the double wammy.

Actually a visual of this would probably be best.


Here we see in the anime, that Santana was actually active for quite a bit after getting hit by that wack mix up, about 15 seconds (he obviously stays cognizant for longer but anything beyond that he's petrified to the point of being kinda ******).

never argued that Tengen would just outright outsmart Santana. My point is that Tengen isn't going to act incompetently. Whether or not that's enough for him to win is a different matter.

Of course, I'm not saying Uzui's gonna do stupid shit and throw, he's obviously tactical, intelligent and good at fighting, but I am saying his past experiences could easily skew his understanding and perception of Santana, opening him up for Santana to exploit, that's less Uzui being dumb and more him ******* up, it isn't the same thing, making a mistake that can be exploited is still very much possible even if you are intelligent and competent. And Santana's own intellect definitely surpasses Uzui in some categories, he does have to be careful no matter the case, he can't afford a slip up.

While Tengen will probably think of Santana as a demon his Extrasensory Perception can differentiate humans and demons, so he will pick up on the fact that Santana is different pretty much instantly.

Yeah I'm not so sure on that end, what's his ESP gonna do? It's not gonna go "oh he's a pillar man", because those don't exist in his verse and he wouldn't know what that is to begin with. And then there's the point of HOW does it differentiate them? What's the difference that tips him off? Is that difference something that applies to Santana as well that might give a false reading of sorts? Need context and info here. Is it via aura, physiology, etc?

That isn't going to give any knowledge beyond Santana being different but it will be enough to make him somewhat wary and while Santana will do things that Tengen won't expect he is still vulnerable enough to sunlight for Tengen's Nichirin blades to be usable if he can cut Santana.

As said, how does he get that info to differentiate, ESP yes, but what's the ESP tipping him off to exactly (Or is it like Samus/Gil analysis where it just flat out tells him?).
In that vain why does his past experience matter? If he doesn't know what Santana is and you're saying he'd act cautious and wary, in that light, why would he also use demon tactics on what he thinks isn't a demon? And if he does use Demon Tactics just because, would Santana not be able to exploit them being less effective or not at all?

Also, while decapitation is pretty much an instant kill with most demons some demons actually persist for a short while while disintegrating and try to land some attacks on the demon slayer who decapitated them

That might be good but Santana can act like for like, over a minute straight after being bathed in sunlight, it's pretty hefty.

, so that's not going to be too much of a surprise for Tengen but he will have to wait until Santana is completely petrified for a good bit longer than he is used to.

Why wouldn't it be a surprise? If he knows he's not fighting a demon, why would the solid chunk of rock retaliating not be a surprise? Demons vaporizing but trying to attack is one thing but the solid chunk of stone might be a tad more suspicious to assume that (Especially the acid stuff, if Uzui never learns about the acid Santana has, if he makes contact with it for whatever reason, that's it for him, maybe to move, check it, or something else, he has no reason to assume Santana has contact based instant kill basically, this also goes for while Santana is fully functional as well).
And most certainly longer, he'd have to stick around forever, as as soon as the sunlight energy dissipates he can come back. In fact, any reason why Santana can't just outlast Uzui? Santana isn't going to die here, even if you turn him into solid rock 100% through and then toss him into daylight and keep him there, once the sun starts to set he's gonna unpetrify, and it's completely impossible to keep Santana petrified for 24h for incap due to day night cycles existing, and his stamina is kinda ludicrous by virtue of being a pillar men, he can't last or fight for a whole year or anything like big boy Kars, but he can stay active for an absolutely stupid amount of time (he just woke up from his 2000y nap, he's good to go).

The points I've "ignored" are the points which I consider to be perfectly valid. I haven't voted for Tengen nor am I even arguing that he is winning. I'm merely responding to the points that are either wrong or partially incorrect based on what I know.

Idk man it just seems a tad odd, you're arguing and correcting things but at the same time you kinda aren't? If that makes sense. For example the above, you argued about the blades and the energy and what they'd do to Santana, but ignored the perfectly valid point in your own words, of Santana being able to make bladed weaponry far less sufficient via elasticity. Aka what the blade would do doesn't matter because it can't do that thing in the first place, idk it just comes off as missing the forest for the trees, though I really shouldn't complain, I guess it helps for future reference.

That's indeed what you would usually think especially if you are thinking of Hamon but Nichirin swords do not exactly work like Hamon.

Yeah they aren't exactly the same, but they do have numerous examples of overlap. Knowing one helps with the other, it's not perfect and there is differences, but it'd give at least a few red flags and things to be wary of.

The thing is that the disintegration that Nichirin swords cause demons to undergo when they are beheaded with them doesn't just spread from the cut neck. The entire body disintegrates, so a demon's hands, feet, back or forehead might end up disintegrating before the disintegration can spread from the neck region to those areas, so no, you can't escape the effect by cutting parts off.

Tbh that sounds like a demon problem.

Once it it is cut off there is no saving it from the effect. That's at the very least what I can tell to be the case from how the disintegration is visually depicted in the series.

Yeah idk at that point that sounds like a demon thing, in this case, why would Santana getting cut in the leg effect his completely unrelated arm if he decides to remove said leg immediately, what's actually causing his unrelated arm to be effected? There has to be cause, did the sunlight energy spread? If it didn't then it wouldn't be turning to stone in the first place as the reason he turns to stone is BECAUSE said part was struck with sunlight, other parts of him being struck don't matter. And in DS' case, if they chop off a demons arm, does it still have that same effect of the whole body vaporizing or is it ONLY the neck where the whole body vanishes and cuts other places only effect that specific place? Because idk that implies to me it's a demon weakness in particular if they suddenly vanish via neck cut but not cuts other places.

PS: Chariot190, is it just my imagination or are you being a bit aggressive here? I'd honestly prefer it if you were just helpfully presenting your position like you did in that thread of mine back then.

Nah just your imagination, If I say ****, cuss a bit or come off as a bit pissy or whatever don't take it personally, just how I talk and long ass posts are bound to come off a bit rough or have a bit of my personal writing bleed into it, nothing against you or anything, most annoying thing here is typing shit on mobile (or well, was on mobile, this was written like yesterday, just going back to finish up, so I'm not proof reading I'm just typing. Also means no scans but I'll deal with that when I'm home later, or well, at the time, I can get scans atm if you really need them still, I'll load up the VPN to grab some Part 2 scans if you want something still).

Though speaking of scans, clipped from the eps I obtained through perfectly legal means

Santana acting in sunlight, about 50+ seconds worth of action under constant sunlight.

Plus about another 15 seconds when getting hit with the double dose from both sides (he stays active a bit longer, the clip is about 30 seconds long but at that point he's to solid to do anything).

There's also another instance of Santana in sunlight but that was only like five-ten seconds.

This should paint a decent picture of how long Santana can act after getting cut or under light on par with sunlight (And assuming the cut's energy lasts for a prolonged period of time), how much time he can act after the fact, aka Santana can easily just crosscounter and trade blows and win said exchanges as his acid/absorption/ap/etc is a far more lethal and long term thing to him getting turned to stone for a bit (The narration even states sunlight CAN'T kill Santana, merely incap him).

Anyway here's a wall of text.

---

tldr
Santana can act for over a minute in sunlight, it doesn't permanently petrify, explicitly stated sunlight doesn't kill him and once the energy dissipates he can just reform back whenever. Making actually defeating Santana pretty much impossible, best case is incap, but said incap won't be permanent either, it's only a matter of time as Santana only needs one good hit to win between AP, acid or draining/bio manip.
That's assuming the blade isn't mitigated by Santana becoming elastic.

Still think the match isn't fair, Uzui has no kill conditions.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Impossible. How could you have possibly written all of that in 2 minutes? Even if you saw it from earth mans comment in what's new, it's not plausible for you to write that in a mere 10 minutes.

 

[Chariot190]

Impossible. How could you have possibly written all of that in 2 minutes? Even if you saw it from earth mans comment in what's new, it's not plausible for you to write that in a mere 10 minutes.

I wrote it up like 3 or 4 or how many days ago it was, got busy, and then just decided I'd reply whenever I get pinged. Then never got pinged. Wiki saved it as a draft so I just clicked "post reply".

 

[Chariot190]

As for the hibernation shit, the "Santana used to much power", was actually just a in-universe theory as they don't know **** all about him (the line even says "it's thought that he used to much power and that's why he slept", actual reason? Not that, probably just got bored or something. That happens a lot with Pillar Men, nobody knows much about them so they make wild guesses, Lisa Lisa even is like "man they could be ******* ayy lmaos lol". We don't actually know WHY they hibernated, or well, we kinda have an idea for Kars main squad, they just kinda napped till Aja revealed itself, iirc it was just waiting for the Romans to die out. No idea why Santana napped though, Kars ghosted his ass and ditched him because he sucks and nobody likes him, **** him.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it some more Jotaro managed to kill Dio and he hasn't Regeneration Negation, so I guess a demon slayer could still kill a vampire with enough damage but getting that point will undoubtedly prove difficult.

He didn't, it's flat out stated DIO was actually alive. And they had to be super ******* careful. Luckily the sun was coming up (the fight ended early morning) and he stayed incapped long enough for them to put him out. Him being incapped because he literally just had his soul ******* punched to dust and, I quote, "annihilated", Stands are the manifestation of one's spirit and are reflective of their mind and will.

 

[XVII]

Impossible. How could you have possibly written all of that in 2 minutes? Even if you saw it from earth mans comment in what's new, it's not plausible for you to write that in a mere 10 minutes.

thats the power of his stand you silly

 

[XVII]

He didn't, it's flat out stated DIO was actually alive. And they had to be super ******* careful. Luckily the sun was coming up (the fight ended early morning) and he stayed incapped long enough for them to put him out. Him being incapped because he literally just had his soul ******* punched to dust and, I quote, "annihilated", Stands are the manifestation of one's spirit and are reflective of their mind and will.

wait, didn't the fight only last like 100-200 seconds? it started at 5:15pm
it didn't end early morning

but yeah, dio's body was alive but he had no soul left, so meh

even then, jotaro was there if anythoing happened

 

[Chariot190]

wait, didn't the fight only last like 100-200 seconds? it started at 5:15pm
it didn't end early morning

but yeah, dio's body was alive but he had no soul left, so meh

even then, jotaro was there if anythoing happened

That's early morning imo, sun usually raises here quite early at least, the sun starts coming up early as **** depending on the time of year too or where you live in relation to the time, but I don't think you need me to explain that. Regardless, we see the sun coming up at the end of the fight,

Notice the purplish hues and streams of light emerging from the horizon (leading into an eventual light blue hue) and then a flat out sunrise.

Also yeah, it's stated that the fight took about 150~ seconds (a little over a 100 seconds + less than half that time, so about 150).

 

[XVII]

Notice the purplish hues and streams of light emerging from the horizon (leading into an eventual light blue hue) and then a flat out sunrise.

Also yeah, it's stated that the fight took about 150~ seconds (a little over a 100 seconds + less than half that time, so about 150).

i see.

it was night in the anime tho

 

[Armorchompy]

is the coloring canon?

 

[XVII]

is the coloring canon?

it isnt

 

[Chariot190]

Canon enough for me to actually make mention of it, but if we're going to get anal about it, the streams of light in the black and white suggest it as well, there's black streaks coming off the horizon reflecting and skewering the clouds (which the colored manga has as golden streaks of light) so either way.
(And they definitely didn't sit on their ass for a few hours if that's what people are getting at, it's early enough in the morning for me to believe they just waited like 10-15 minutes or so till the sun came up).

 

[XVII]

even tho it is a white sky in the original version, araki doesnt draw night skies black

even during the fight, the sky was always white, and in part 6's flashbacks as well

 

[XVII]

so yeah, bright is not light in jojo

bizarre but whatever

 

[Chariot190]

The light streaming through the clouds is in both black and colored, so debate kinda ends there.


And this one just kinda comes off as day is breaking, dark sky, light towards the horizon.

I could continue.

 

[XVII]

kakyoin said it's 5:15 in cairo, so it's around midnight in japan

5:15pm

Also yeah, it's stated that the fight took about 150~ seconds (a little over a 100 seconds + less than half that time, so about 150).

yes, so the fight ended around 5:17pm

also, when joseph was getting the blood transfusion, jotaro said "he had his blood drained only a few minutes ago"
so there's no way that the fight extended for that long, or that it was 5:15am

since the sun JUST went down, there is just no way
also, in the senator philips scene, he says that "people are coming back home from work, that's why it's so crowded"

tl;dr -> it's not early morning. hell, it's barely 5:30pm before the fight ends

so yeah, it's not canon at all

the anime is also proof

 

[XVII]

fixed a typo

 

[Armorchompy]

This is like, barely relevant to the debate of whether Santana resists sunlight, let alone relevant to the debate.

 

[XVII]

This is like, barely relevant to the debate of whether Santana resists sunlight, let alone relevant to the debate.

yeah, sorry.

anyway, back to the topic...

i believe that uzui can outlast santana and sun incap since he has his sound abilities and ESP, but he has no way of killing him
meanwhile, santana only needs to touch him and it's game over

it's almost a stomp, but if it isn't, my vote goes to uzui, he has a much better chance running (since he can see santana is too strong or not a demon, which should [given his intelligence] make him do a tactical retreat and report it to the demon corps. he is, after all, a great strategist and since santana isn't a demon, he shouldn't be too bothered by letting him slip) than fighting the pillar man

if santana were to chase him, given it's speed equal, uzui would definitely have stamina for 12h of running, given his training and all, so he would never reach him

besides, uzui has his ninja gear on him, bombs and stuff, so he would be able to slow santana down a bit

 

[XVII]

santana has actually no chance of catching up to uzui, and considering this is an in-character match, santana would probably just let him slide and avoid conflict, since he was pretty cool with joseph fooling around until he decided to attack him

 

[XVII]

santana is like that, he just would be like "stupid human" and give up

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Isn't it better to make Santana (Or use at least a interesting character) against some High 8-C character from Kimetsu? Because like, there are several

 

[XVII]

meh

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Isn't it better to make Santana (Or use at least a interesting character) against some High 8-C character from Kimetsu? Because like, there are several

I am anime only. I don't want to make a match that could lead me to being spoiled. I was spoiled far too much already.

 

[Chariot190]

anyway, back to the topic...

I'm legally obligated to reply.

Isn't it better to make Santana (Or use at least a interesting character) against some High 8-C character from Kimetsu? Because like, there are several

Santana's "High 8-C" is actual garbage, he's like, and I shit you ******* not, like only 0.1881455743% above baseline. Of course, he upscales, but not enough to matter that much. That's right, not even 1% above.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It would be interesting a match between muzan vs ultimate kars. Both have similar goals, same tier, and both are horribe antagonists.

Santana's "High 8-C" is actual garbage, he's like, and I shit you ******* not, like only 0.1881455743% above baseline. Of course, he upscales, but not enough to matter that much. That's right, not even 1% above.

Although Santana is weaker than any High 8-C in Kimetsu, he is much more haxxed

 

[Chariot190]

Given we've had two pages arguing why Santana would beat a DS dude 3x weaker than him and it still isnt over yet, idk man. I could only imagine.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Given we've had two pages arguing why Santana would beat a DS dude 3x weaker than him and it still isnt over yet, idk man. I could only imagine.

I want to give everyone a chance to preseny their argument. But okay, I will add the match now.

 

[XVII]

true, santana absolutely murders him

but if he can (and will) outlast him, uzui ftw

 

[XVII]

I want to give everyone a chance to preseny their argument. But okay, I will add the match now.

oh ok, guess this can be closed then

 

[Nehz_XZX]

oh ok, guess this can be closed then

I'm still planning to give an answer to Chariot190 since he asked something in regards to Nichirin swords and demons. I have currently just access to my mobile phone and will later be able to write better with my laptop.

 

[Chariot190]

Don't bother at this point tbh, I might just end up reading it along with Chainsaw Man, (unless it's an answer about the neck demon stuff, that's kinda something I want still because I've seen like half a dozen people give me a different reply, a scan clearing this up would be neat).

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Don't bother at this point tbh, I might just end up reading it along with Chainsaw Man, (unless it's an answer about the neck demon stuff, that's kinda something I want still because I've seen like half a dozen people give me a different reply, a scan clearing this up would be neat).

That's precisely what I want to give an anwer to.

 

[StekFence]

It's pretty cool when you don't get notified for a page and only find out because you see the thread pop up in what's new.

Ah, love when that happens

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I know that you are more interested in the answer to your question about demon necks but I do feel a need to give an answer to everything that needs a clarification from my perspective, so I'll try to keep that comparatively short to get to the point that interests you most at the end of this comment.

As we see in a above scan, ACDC literally splits his arm in half down the middle at a whim to dodge an attack, he also separated his brain from his body when things started to go south. Wham can do it with his horn. Santana himself has displayed control over dozens of stray chunks of himself and so on. Vampires and Zombies have shown the ability to seperate parts of the body as well, whether it be minor like Tarkus firing his fangs out or what not. Wham's arms also got injured once so he decided to separate his arms to launch them like a rocket punch to pin and choke Joseph out (id grab scans but eh cant right now, this one should be obvious though, it was a pretty popular fight) preventing him from moving. They can do this just fine, they don't usually do that in a fight, as a lead or anything, but they very much can and have shown the capability to do so many times and will if they need to.

a good example would be Wham, where he had dozens of military grade UV lights shining on him, but the moment he covered them with blood, he broke free instantly. So the answer would be as soon as the light, or I guess light energy, is gone.

Yeah sure, but if you're arguing that explosions do **** all to Santana, why would we assume the blade could either? Of course, the area does help, piercing and slashing and all that, indeed that can mitigate durability to an extent, but to what extent? If a similar AP thing can't hurt him, when do we say the sword won't either? Maybe his durability is enough to mitigate the sword as well? See the issue? You just opened a whole can of worms that might make this a stomp or not. Tbh it doesn't matter a whole lot in the long run but still, would prefer not to enter complex or unknown variables.

Then he jumps into a well, and the reflective light is blinding and turns him to stone before he can dive beneath the water. That alone shows us that yeah ***** kinda ******. But we're shown this later too, most notably with Aja, that is stated to amplify Hamon and even natural sunlight by simply reflecting it a bunch, not how it works irl but Araki seems to think if you reflect light it increases the potency of it. we also see this with Caesar who uses his bubbles to refract sunlight to make like lasers.
Tbh if you just want the Aja lines I could give that, it's explicitly stated reflection of the light magnifies it, up to millions of times due to repeating that process. Might even be a 6251 scan talking about light, reflection and stuff but I'll need to translate that, I'll hit up Redgrave I guess.
Instantly? No. But he definitely wanted in there (In fact he stood around for a solid like 20 seconds), and of course, why wouldn't he? That ***** painful and he's still gonna petrify if he doesn't go somewhere safe, please don't argue that because he was going for the well it means he can't function in daylight, because we see him do exactly that. How long? Well that's another matter entirely, whether it's 1 minute or five, or even half a minute, it's obviously not forever, it is a emergency. Point is, he can, has and will be able to act if struck by a blade, he will petrify, until the energy dissipates, but he can still function, albeit not permanently, while inflicted with that energy.
I could see why you'd think that, you're not wrong, but that doesn't seem to be the whole reason either, Joseph does say that with the sun hitting him from the back and the sun bouncing off the reflection, so there being two sources was definitely a factor, but imo it was more about how he was getting a double dose, not that he was hit both front and back (Though the anime does word it like that a bit, manga less so), given he was standing in the middle of a courtyard while the afternoon sun hit him directly, he was being hit by all sides then and there. It being front back in the wall isn't really why but more because he was getting a double helping with nowhere to go imo. Though fact of the matter is that Part 2 and reflecting light to magnify it is a common theme. But in this case you could say it's a bit of a combination of a few things if anything.

Yeah I'm not so sure on that end, what's his ESP gonna do? It's not gonna go "oh he's a pillar man", because those don't exist in his verse and he wouldn't know what that is to begin with. And then there's the point of HOW does it differentiate them? What's the difference that tips him off? Is that difference something that applies to Santana as well that might give a false reading of sorts? Need context and info here. Is it via aura, physiology, etc?
As said, how does he get that info to differentiate, ESP yes, but what's the ESP tipping him off to exactly (Or is it like Samus/Gil analysis where it just flat out tells him?).
In that vain why does his past experience matter? If he doesn't know what Santana is and you're saying he'd act cautious and wary, in that light, why would he also use demon tactics on what he thinks isn't a demon? And if he does use Demon Tactics just because, would Santana not be able to exploit them being less effective or not at all?

Why wouldn't it be a surprise? If he knows he's not fighting a demon, why would the solid chunk of rock retaliating not be a surprise? Demons vaporizing but trying to attack is one thing but the solid chunk of stone might be a tad more suspicious to assume that (Especially the acid stuff, if Uzui never learns about the acid Santana has, if he makes contact with it for whatever reason, that's it for him, maybe to move, check it, or something else, he has no reason to assume Santana has contact based instant kill basically, this also goes for while Santana is fully functional as well).
And most certainly longer, he'd have to stick around forever, as as soon as the sunlight energy dissipates he can come back. In fact, any reason why Santana can't just outlast Uzui? Santana isn't going to die here, even if you turn him into solid rock 100% through and then toss him into daylight and keep him there, once the sun starts to set he's gonna unpetrify, and it's completely impossible to keep Santana petrified for 24h for incap due to day night cycles existing, and his stamina is kinda ludicrous by virtue of being a pillar men, he can't last or fight for a whole year or anything like big boy Kars, but he can stay active for an absolutely stupid amount of time (he just woke up from his 2000y nap, he's good to go).

Idk man it just seems a tad odd, you're arguing and correcting things but at the same time you kinda aren't? If that makes sense. For example the above, you argued about the blades and the energy and what they'd do to Santana, but ignored the perfectly valid point in your own words, of Santana being able to make bladed weaponry far less sufficient via elasticity. Aka what the blade would do doesn't matter because it can't do that thing in the first place, idk it just comes off as missing the forest for the trees, though I really shouldn't complain, I guess it helps for future reference.

Yeah, Wamuu did shoot off his arms. Santana controlling stray chunks doesn't really help since it's him controlling pieces that already separated instead of controlling his body to separate pieces but the rest seems valid to me.

I recall that it was said that Santana's body would start to reassemble and come back to life which would suggest that it isn't an instant recovery. I also recall the example with Wamuu where Wamuu still had enough capacity of movement to move his head and use his horn to cover the UV lights, so I do think that it would have taken longer to recover if he was completely petrified but I do see that it doesn't seem to be a long time and that he could recover fairly quickly from any sunlight effects once he isn't exposed to it which can probably be extended to a fully petrified state that isn't hibernating.

Well, if Tengen can't harm Santana at all, then that's certainly a bad situation for him. I honestly just presumed that the sharpness of Tengen's blade could allow him to penetrate Santana's skin but if there is evidence that this isn't the case, then that's how it is. I've explained earlier that explosions can't necessarily hurt everything that the blades can due to the surface area and I'd also argue that this can also be taken to mean that not everything that the explosions can't hurt can also not be hurt by the blades since they cover less surface area. That's something for the people in the thread to figure out I guess.

The Aja, the example with Caesar's bubbles and you mentioning lasers brings to my mind how lasers differ from light in the sense that they are focused to a tight spot which is if I'm not wrong how it works with the Aja and Caesar's bubbles. The Aja shoots lasers because it concentrates all of the sunlight in a single direction though the potency does seem to be exaggerated compared to what you would find in real life. In Caesar's case he was able to use the bubbles to hit Wamuu with multiple concentrated light rays from multiple angles which kind of reminds me of how Hamon is more effective when concentrated to a smaller area. I don't think that the example with the well has anything to do with focusing light unlike the other examples, so can it still be assumed that it was more potent than regular sunlight purely due to being reflected? Okay, now that you mention it, it does seem like as if Santana was in the sun for longer than I initially recalled but I never denied his ability to act for a while in the sun. This is just another thing Tengen has to deal with for the purposes of this match. I'm pretty sure that the sunlight can only hit him from one direction even in the courtyard if there is no reflection involved since we only have one sun and therefore only one source of sunlight with only one general direction it is coming from.

The Extrasensory Perception is about sensing presences and malicious intent. Every other bit of Extrasensory Perception from the justification is derived from that, so Tengen can sense that Santana's presence isn't that of a human and also not that of a demon and that Santana is really strong but he won't get any more information than that. He also knows from his crow as specified in the OP that Santana was killing humans and it should get pretty apparent early on that Santana can do a lot of things with his body that humans can't. Tactics against demons usually boil down to taking into consideration a demon's basic capabilities which do overlap with that of a Pillar Man a bit, look out for that demon's Blood Demon Art (Santana doesn't have that due to not being a demon but he does have various dangerous abilities, so that should get close enough) and behead them with trained combat skills using Nichirin swords.

I don't think that Tengen will be surprised by Santana retaliating while petrifying and by the time Santana is completely petrified he will already be in a state of alert where he will continue maneuvering around if Santana moves or recovers. If a petrified chunk of Santana recovers and can attack though, then Tengen will probably be surprised by that though I doubt that he wouldn't notice that with his sharp hearing. There are quite a number of demons with poison and there is also a demon with acid and this isn't even going into Muzan's Biological Deconstruction. Tengen should be well aware of possible instant kill attacks but the sheer potency of Santana's case might indeed catch him by surprise if he does fail to avoid it. Depending on whether or not Santana absorbed people while killing in the entertainment district Tengen might actually start out with an idea of it since the OP does specify that Santana killed people in the Entertainment District. Kars fought for a year? Was that without breaks? The profiles for the Pillar Men completely lack descriptions of their stamina feats, so it's kinda hard to make an actual comparison beyond the fact that they have a good amount of it. Tengen himself has quite good stamina and could technically rest while the sun is up. Whether or not he can get to that point and if that is what he would do is another thing.

What I argued about was the hypothetical situation where Tengen did in fact decapitate Santana and my arguments regarding that did not in fact take into account how Tengen would get to that point. It was solely about the effects the Nichirin blades would have in that situation regardless of whether or not Tengen can in fact get to that point. So, I wasn't exactly deliberately ignoring something but it was in fact merely not related to the topic I was arguing about in the sense that it was strictly about the effects of the hypothetical scenario. If Santana can prevent the scenario from happening via Elasticity, then that's simply how it is and I'll be fine with it as long as the effects of the Nichirin blades were properly understood.

As for the hibernation shit, the "Santana used to much power", was actually just a in-universe theory as they don't know **** all about him (the line even says "it's thought that he used to much power and that's why he slept", actual reason? Not that, probably just got bored or something. That happens a lot with Pillar Men, nobody knows much about them so they make wild guesses, Lisa Lisa even is like "man they could be ******* ayy lmaos lol". We don't actually know WHY they hibernated, or well, we kinda have an idea for Kars main squad, they just kinda napped till Aja revealed itself, iirc it was just waiting for the Romans to die out. No idea why Santana napped though, Kars ghosted his ass and ditched him because he sucks and nobody likes him, **** him.

He didn't, it's flat out stated DIO was actually alive. And they had to be super ******* careful. Luckily the sun was coming up (the fight ended early morning) and he stayed incapped long enough for them to put him out. Him being incapped because he literally just had his soul ******* punched to dust and, I quote, "annihilated", Stands are the manifestation of one's spirit and are reflective of their mind and will.

It does look like as if it's a hypothesis now that I've checked the corresponding chapter that the Jojowiki links to. Not sure why the Pillar Men would waste time they could use for searching though but there is probably context that I'm missing.

Okay, it's good to have that clarified.

Yeah idk at that point that sounds like a demon thing, in this case, why would Santana getting cut in the leg effect his completely unrelated arm if he decides to remove said leg immediately, what's actually causing his unrelated arm to be effected? There has to be cause, did the sunlight energy spread? If it didn't then it wouldn't be turning to stone in the first place as the reason he turns to stone is BECAUSE said part was struck with sunlight, other parts of him being struck don't matter. And in DS' case, if they chop off a demons arm, does it still have that same effect of the whole body vaporizing or is it ONLY the neck where the whole body vanishes and cuts other places only effect that specific place? Because idk that implies to me it's a demon weakness in particular if they suddenly vanish via neck cut but not cuts other places.

Okay, here is the answer to the question that apparently interests you much more than the rest which starts with a clarification about something that you seem to have misunderstood. I didn't say that Nichirin swords affects could affect Santana's arm if his leg gets cut off. If Santana's head gets cut off, then that might happen but otherwise the effect is limited to whatever part of his body was cut off. The parts that are cut off will be affected in their entirety, so Santana can't excise the already petrified pieces and stop the process with that. You can see an example of that in the anime.

As for the cause, it basically is the fact that a Nichirin sword is comprised of special ore that absorbed sunlight and that is what the story proceeds to work with. I don't think that there is any more of an explanation than that other than an explanation that is more about the materials than how the sunlight in the blade interacts with the body of a demon. So, with how the story treats and depicts it I'd say that the trigger of the disintegration is the instant where the Nichirin sword completely severs something. This has worked against demons which are capable of detaching parts of their bodies which means that they weren't able to save themselves by doing exactly that before their bodies fully disintegrated, so I don't think that Santana could do that either to avoid complete petrification if he gets his head cut off. He could however avoid it by severing his head himself before the blade does it which was in fact done by a demon in the series, so I can imagine Santana doing it once he understands what happens should the Nichirin sword sever his head.

As already mentioned earlier cutting a demon's neck off will cause their entire body to disintegrate. While the neck is a weakness from the perspective of demon slayers since it is the only spot that will allow them to actually kill the demon that's in fact the only context where it is one. Decapitation via any means other than Nichirin swords doesn't kill demons which is what makes fights between them generally pointless. You could perhaps argue that the matter with the decapitation is a trait unique to demons and that it shouldn't be generalized to all beings with a weakness to sunlight but demons are the only reference point in the series that can be used to judge how Nichirin swords affect beings that are weak to the sun and if we can't in fact use them to judge how it would affect other beings that have sunlight as a weakness, then I'm afraid that it'll be extremely difficult to judge what the actual effects are going to be.

There is also the fact that we list the effects of Nichirin sword decapitation on the demon slayer pages as part of their equipment description instead of having it in the Weakness section of the demons, so if we have conclusive evidence that points towards it being a unique weakness to demons, then we might need a CRT for that which I'll in fact do myself if that is indeed the case. There is also a case where one of the strongest demons makes it so that it's head is no longer a weak point which is considered an example of Adaption on the profiles. Other than demons that have adapted to decapitation through Nichirin swords the only other examples of demons who won't die because of that are those that are immune to the sun which is treated by the story and characters as a trait unique to them. In contrast to that, Muzan said that the sunlight would destroy him in an instant and he was the strongest demon in existence who already had immunity against Nichirin sword decapitation for a long time before he turned Tanjiro into a demon.

Armorchompy argued earlier that Nichirin swords are merely swords with the ability of absorbing sunlight and that due to the fact that this is the only special trait they have that it is much more likely for the demon to have that weakness due to their bizarre traits which isn't quite accurate if you ask me. It was stated that Nichirin swords change color depending on the wielder if they have enough proficiency and that the different colors have certain properties. There is also Giyu specifically looking for a sword belonging to a Breath of Water user which further confirms the rather peculiar properties of Nichirin swords. So, I don't think that having more of an effect when cutting the neck would be the weirdest trait by Nichirin sword standards especially since the effect it has when cutting the neck of a demon is basically the main reason for why they are used by the Demon Slayer Corps.

Tanjiro and Inosuke managed to deal with a headless demon puppet by slicing from the base of its neck on the right side to its left waist and Rengoku was completely certain about a demon who fused with a train having a neck which he was in fact right about in the sense that there was a neck bone, so this effect seems to apply even in cases where the demon doesn't really have quite what you'd usually call a head or neck. This does make it seem like as if it isn't a matter of biological structure since demons do have High-Mid Regeneration and Immortality Type 2, so demons shouldn't technically need their neck or any component of it to live especially since it isn't a weak spot they can target in battles against each other.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Tengen could escape the fight with his running speed, but bring Santana down? I can't see that happening. Tengen is smart so he'd know if something is too much for him and without any backup here, he'd quickly realize that he's unable to bring Santana down. He just has no ways to kill him while Santana needs contact and its gg. Joseph bombed Straizo with several grenades and he regenerated from that, and Santana>>Straizo in every area (Except in intelligence, I guess).

 

[StekFence]

Except in intelligence, I

Pillarman are typically geniuses

 

[Shey]

(Except in intelligence, I guess).