Usopp Durability Revision (One Piece)

[Damage3245]

As discussed in this thread, Usopp's durability in the Enies Lobby arc should be scaling off of base Jabra's striking strength instead of Hybrid Jabra whose attacks Usopp could not withstand (Hybrid Jabra's Shigan went right through him). Just because Usopp survived the serious injury that Jabra dealt him does not mean that he should be treated as comparable to Hybrid Jabra's Rokushiki.

As it turns out, Usopp's durability on his Enies Lobby arc key is already scaling to 7-B which is the value of base Jabra, so all that will need to happen here is that Usopp's durability justification gets upgraded so that it is base Jabra, not Hybrid Jabra.

However, there's another issue I noticed in Usopp's profile for his Thriller Bark key:

Durability: City level+ (Could take a hit from his Firebird attack)

Usopp's durability in the Thriller Bark arc is rated as City level+ for survivng being hit from his own Firebird attack; however there is nothing that actually warrants his Firebird being rated as City level+ in the first place. When he used it against Oars, he didn't cause any injury to the giant at all and only succeeded in momentarily distracting him.

So I believe that Thriller Bark arc Usopp should also be downgraded to City level.


EDIT:

To cover in depth the reason why Usopp's Firebird Star isn't scaling to half of Oars anymore:

The one Usopp sends at Kuma is an ordinary Firebird Star (sometimes called Phoenix Star in the Viz version).

The one sent at Oars is a Special Oil Star which Franky ignites to create a Super-Size Firebird Star.

There is actually no relationship between the two techniques besides them looking similar. Nothing about it being twice as powerful... Nothing about Usopp and Franky both putting in half the energy (however that would work).

What's more, the Super-Size Firebird Star didn't actually harm Oars. Oars reacted in pain but it was all in his head. No actual damage was done to his body.

 

[Eseseso]

As discussed in this thread, Usopp's durability in the Enies Lobby arc should be scaling off of base Jabra's striking strength instead of Hybrid Jabra whose attacks Usopp could not withstand (Hybrid Jabra's Shigan went right through him). Just because Usopp survived the serious injury that Jabra dealt him does not mean that he should be treated as comparable to Hybrid Jabra's Rokushiki.

As it turns out, Usopp's durability on his Enies Lobby arc key is already scaling to 7-B which is the value of base Jabra, so all that will need to happen here is that Usopp's durability justification gets upgraded so that it is base Jabra, not Hybrid Jabra.

However, there's another issue I noticed in Usopp's profile for his Thriller Bark key:



Usopp's durability in the Thriller Bark arc is rated as City level+ for survivng being hit from his own Firebird attack; however there is nothing that actually warrants his Firebird being rated as City level+ in the first place. When he used it against Oars, he didn't cause any injury to the giant at all and only succeeded in momentarily distracting him.

So I believe that Thriller Bark arc Usopp should also be downgraded to City level.

Since it doesn't seem that Base Jabra used Rokushiki when he hit Usopp, I agree with the OP.

This downgrades basically everyone since Hody Jones in base scales to Usopp.

 

[Damage3245]

Since it doesn't seem that Base Jabra used Rokushiki when he hit Usopp, I agree with the OP.

This downgrades basically everyone since Hody Jones in base scales to Usopp.

Yeah, pretty much.

But I've got a scaling chart being drawn up, so it'll be easy to update everyone.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This seems fine to me

 

[Deceived3596]

Agree with everything.

Can't believe that Firebird scaling was even accepted in the first place ngl, the attack didn't even harm the dude, much less heavily damaged him.

 

[Eseseso]

Agree with everything.

Can't believe that Firebird scaling was even accepted in the first place ngl, the attack didn't even harm the dude, much less heavily damaged him.

And it wasn't even combined with Franky's attack from what I can tell, so it shouldn't have scaled to 1/2 of Oars anyways.

 

[Eminiteable]

As discussed in this thread, Usopp's durability in the Enies Lobby arc should be scaling off of base Jabra's striking strength instead of Hybrid Jabra whose attacks Usopp could not withstand (Hybrid Jabra's Shigan went right through him). Just because Usopp survived the serious injury that Jabra dealt him does not mean that he should be treated as comparable to Hybrid Jabra's Rokushiki.

As it turns out, Usopp's durability on his Enies Lobby arc key is already scaling to 7-B which is the value of base Jabra, so all that will need to happen here is that Usopp's durability justification gets upgraded so that it is base Jabra, not Hybrid Jabra.

Since I proposed removing it in that thread I obviously agree.

However, there's another issue I noticed in Usopp's profile for his Thriller Bark key:


Usopp's durability in the Thriller Bark arc is rated as City level+ for survivng being hit from his own Firebird attack; however there is nothing that actually warrants his Firebird being rated as City level+ in the first place. When he used it against Oars, he didn't cause any injury to the giant at all and only succeeded in momentarily distracting him.

So I believe that Thriller Bark arc Usopp should also be downgraded to City level.

However, regarding this it's referring too a different time when Usopp used the firebird star, specifically when he and Franky combined their fire and it did harm to Oars:

 

[Damage3245]

However, regarding this it's referring too a different time when Usopp used the firebird star, specifically when he and Franky combined their fire and it did harm to Oars:

Sure, but that doesn't scale to Usopp which is the important part.

 

[Eminiteable]

Sure, but that doesn't scale to Usopp which is the important part.

Currently Oars is rated at 7-A, Franky & Usopp both contributed to a combined attack which is where their 7-B+ ratings are coming from (Half of Oars value):

City level+ (Together with Franky, they created a combined attack that harmed Oars)

This is why him taking the Firebird attack normally is 7-B+.

 

[Damage3245]

@Eminiteable I don't agree with splitting the value that amped up Firebird Star like that.

This is not an energy beam where both Franky and Usopp are putting an unknown amount of energy into a combined attack so we divide the results between them.

For all we know that Super-Sized Firebird is many times more powerful than a regular one. There is no backscaling here that should be taking place.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah I agree, surviving getting impaled like that is more of a stamina feat than durability.

 

[Eminiteable]

@Eminiteable I don't agree with splitting the value that amped up Firebird Star like that.

This is not an energy beam where both Franky and Usopp are putting an unknown amount of energy into a combined attack so we divide the results between them.

For all we know that Super-Sized Firebird is many times more powerful than a regular one. There is no backscaling here that should be taking place.

This all seems fair, but is a bit different than what you were proposing in the OP. Also regarding these issue with combined attack ratings the verse profile does state this in the notes section:

Regarding Combined Attacks: In the case of unified attacks, it has been decided in this thread that combined attacks done at the same time, whether with several limbs or with several relative characters, would be equal to the sum of their attack potency. An attack done by 1 person using several limbs at the same time would be equal to the sum of their attack potency. This will be taken on a case by case basis, and we should look closely to each instance of events like this to see if they truly qualify.

And I know we treat other cases of combined attacks (besides just this one) as a equal contribution from all contributes, such as chinjao & Elizabello destroying Pica's arm.

 

[Nierre]

Agree with the OP

 

[Eseseso]

Either way, since Oars only scales to Base Luffy's 108.57 megatons, Usopp's durability would be 54.28 megatons, which is just below 7-B+. So it'd be 7-B regardless.

 

[Eminiteable]

Either way, since Oars only scales to Base Luffy's 108.57 megatons, Usopp's durability would be 54.28 megatons, which is just below 7-B+. So it'd be 7-B regardless.

That seems valid if that's what Oars is scaling to (doesn't seem to be the case via the on profile justifications but whatever) but that should probably be covered in a thriller bark CRT rather than a Usopp only CRT which seems to be covering a different issue with the scaling entirely.

 

[Damage3245]

This all seems fair, but is a bit different than what you were proposing in the OP. Also regarding these issue with combined attack ratings the verse profile does state this in the notes section:

It's still a case-by-case basis.

And I know we treat other cases of combined attacks (besides just this one) as a equal contribution from all contributes, such as chinjao & Elizabello destroying Pica's arm.

That's a very different case.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Eminiteable]

It's still a case-by-case basis.

Sure, it was added during this CRT so if you intend to propose on changing it then that's fine I just think the current OP doesn't cover that well since it doesn't cover the actual justification for it being 7-B+.

That's a very different case.

Maybe, just making a point that a lot of profiles use the combined attack logic for splitting their AP results in half which is why it was accepted on Usopp's profile.

 

[Damage3245]

Sure, it was added during this CRT so if you intend to propose on changing it then that's fine I just think the current OP doesn't cover that well since it doesn't cover the actual justification for it being 7-B+.

I'll update the OP at some point then and get that bit removed too.

 

[Eseseso]

I don't see the difference between the firebird which scales to 1/2 of Oars and the one that Usopp endured.

They're the same attack.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't see the difference between the firebird which scales to 1/2 of Oars and the one that Usopp endured.

They're the same attack.

They're not.

The one Usopp sends at Kuma is an ordinary Firebird Star (sometimes called Phoenix Star in the Viz version).

The one sent at Oars is a Special Oil Star which Franky ignites to create a Super-Size Firebird Star.

There is actually no relationship between the two techniques besides them looking similar. Nothing about it being twice as powerful... Nothing about Usopp and Franky both putting in half the energy (however that would work).

What's more, the Super-Size Firebird Star didn't actually harm Oars. Oars reacted in pain but it was all in his head. No actual damage was done to his body.

So this is extra reason to remove that bit of scaling.

 

[Eseseso]

They're not.

The one Usopp sends at Kuma is an ordinary Firebird Star (sometimes called Phoenix Star in the Viz version).

The one sent at Oars is a Special Oil Star which Franky ignites to create a Super-Size Firebird Star.

There is actually no relationship between the two techniques besides them looking similar. Nothing about it being twice as powerful... Nothing about Usopp and Franky both putting in half the energy (however that would work).

What's more, the Super-Size Firebird Star didn't actually harm Oars. Oars reacted in pain but it was all in his head. No actual damage was done to his body.

So this is extra reason to remove that bit of scaling.

Wow, did not know that (as I kinda forgot 90% of the arc).

My bad.

Point dropped then.

 

[Damage3245]

Wow, did not know that (as I kinda forgot 90% of the arc).

My bad.

Point dropped then.

No worries. I didn't even realize it myself until recently.

 

[Eseseso]

That should have never been considered a 50/50 attack in the first place, even without considering that Oars was hallucinating the pain.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah if Oars wasn’t actually hurt and only thought he was in pain then the attack probably shouldn’t scale to him in that case

 

[Damage3245]

Since it looks like this will go through, and Mitch has approved it, I'll put together the draft for changes to the profiles based on this. Once that is evaluated, I'll update the profiles.

 

[Damage3245]

Sandbox is currently being worked on. I'll post it here over the weekend when it is ready.

 

[Damage3245]

Progress is going good. (Bumping this thread myself so nobody else has to)

Just got to add in the Straw Hats, Vinsmokes, and about four or five other characters. Should be done tomorrow.

 

[Eseseso]

Progress is going good. (Bumping this thread myself so nobody else has to)

Just got to add in the Straw Hats, Vinsmokes, and about four or five other characters. Should be done tomorrow.

Take your time!

 

[Damage3245]

Take your time!

I will, I'd just rather this not stay up longer than it has to.

 

[Damage3245]

Here is the completed Sandbox. for evaluation @DemonGodMitchAubin

If anyone can point out if I've missed out any characters, please let me know.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with the OP

 

[Eminiteable]

If anyone can point out if I've missed out any characters, please let me know.

Small mistake here, Impact wolf should scale to 7-B:

Dressrosa Saga​

Attack Potency: Small City level (Stronger than before), higher with Impact Wolf (Incapacitated Daruma)

Striking Strength: Small City level (Stronger than before)

Durability: City level (More durable than before)

 

[Damage3245]

Small mistake here, Impact wolf should scale to 7-B:

Thanks. I think it'd be City level+ actually. Fixed the sections.

 

[Eminiteable]

Thanks. I think it'd be City level+ actually. Fixed the sections.

No problem, also in Cavendish's durability section the far higher should be updated to Mountain level+:

Durability: Mountain level (He could intercept attacks from Chinjao), higher as Hakuba, far higher with Durandal (Stopped an attack from Donquixote Doflamingo intended to kill Trafalgar Law)

 

[Eseseso]

Here is the completed Sandbox. for evaluation @DemonGodMitchAubin

If anyone can point out if I've missed out any characters, please let me know.

Would you mind showing the values that the people on each tier scale to?

That way we can better understand why each person scales to their tier.

 

[Damage3245]

Would you mind showing the values that the people on each tier scale to?

That way we can better understand why each person scales to their tier.

I'll put together a rough list for that.

 

[Eseseso]

Here is the completed Sandbox. for evaluation @DemonGodMitchAubin

If anyone can point out if I've missed out any characters, please let me know.

For Sanji, since it was more or less accepted in this CRT that only DJ Sanji's barrage attacks scale above Eagle Bazooka, would you mind adding that to the Sandbox?

 

[Damage3245]

For Sanji, since it was more or less accepted in this CRT that only DJ Sanji's barrage attacks scale above Eagle Bazooka, would you mind adding that to the Sandbox?

Just realized that the Mountain level+ wouldn't be warranted anyway, so it'd be more like this, if that's alright:

Attack Potency: Mountain level (Could match attacks from Vergo, who could slightly crack his leg), higher with Diable Jambe (Doflamingo complimented the power of his barrage of Diable Jambe-enhanced kicks, while he said Luffy's Eagle Bazooka was weak)

 

[Eseseso]

Just realized that the Mountain level+ wouldn't be warranted anyway, so it'd be more like this, if that's alright:

I mean, I don't know what new values Sanji scales to so I can't comment.