Urban Warfare in the City of Eternal Nights Assassination 7 (Charlie Nash vs Spider-Man)

[First_Witch]

"Seven days have passed since a mysterious group of 16 individuals entered the forsaken Metropolis of decadence.
The quiet night of the Office streets is where our fateful encounter happens.
A clash of Executives and Peacekeepers is upon us. Soon,
Death will occur upon these streets."

​

 

[SamanPatou]

I will comment soon, but I've noticed something I will proceed to fix right now with a quick CRT: basically, Nash's teleportation (Sonic Move) should instead be speed amplification, in the form of fast, single dashes.
It shouldn't make the match a stomp as other characters could still fight him despite this, and the power itself doesn't allow him to Flash through anything (his attacks, run etc.. are "normal", and apparently his options while dashing are limited), but if it's deemed too much, I can swap him with another character.

The evidences are pretty clear, so the changes should be uncontroversial, and if the match is still valid we can start debating while already considering Sonic Move a speed amp and not teleportation.

 

[Oleggator]

So I guess, Nash scales to this which puts him at 1.31 tons of TNT.

While Spidey through scaling to Tom Holland Spidey, I guess should be comparable comparable to Captain America who tanked this. Which should put Spidey at 0.91 tons of TNT.

Nash overall should have x1.43 AP, so I could say they're close to each other.

 

[Oleggator]

I will comment soon, but I've noticed something I will proceed to fix right now with a quick CRT: basically, Nash's teleportation (Sonic Move) should instead be speed amplification, in the form of fast, single dashes.
It shouldn't make the match a stomp as other characters could still fight him despite this, and the power itself doesn't allow him to Flash through anything (his attacks, run etc.. are "normal", and apparently his options while dashing are limited), but if it's deemed too much, I can swap him with another character.

The evidences are pretty clear, so the changes should be uncontroversial, and if the match is still valid we can start debating while already considering Sonic Move a speed amp and not teleportation.

Sure, seems ok.

 

[Popted2]

o I guess, Nash scales to this which puts him at 1.31 tons of TNT.

wait what, wasn't the limit of ap required to partecipate the tournament not above 1 tons?

i might be mistook, but i want a confirm

 

[SamanPatou]

Iirc it was around 1 ton, but not 1 ton specifically, but it's better to ask @First_Witch

 

[Popted2]

so wanna be honest i'm leading towards Spider-Man, because Nash doesn't seem, to have something to overcome his spider sense

and most importantly the lift strengh, since Spidey has more lifting strengh than Nash, this mean that he can trap him with his webs and he can't break free from them

 

[First_Witch]

It was preferable to be around 1 tons. No hard 1 ton maximum

 

[Popted2]

It was preferable to be around 1 tons. No hard 1 ton maximum

Thanks Witch

 

[Popted2]

Iirc it was around 1 ton, but not 1 ton specifically, but it's better to ask @First_Witch

i hope you're not writing a page long argument right now

 

[Coolboy6]

Doesn’t Spider-Man blitz here? Or is speed equal? Plus Spidey has precog to make it worse.

 

[Oleggator]

I believe Speed is equal

 

[Popted2]

Doesn’t Spider-Man blitz here? Or is speed equal? Plus Spidey has precog to make it worse.

of course speed is equalized

 

[Coolboy6]

of course speed is equalized

OP doesn’t list…

 

[Popted2]

OP doesn’t list…

every match has speed equalized, as explained in the main tournament thread

8-C Tournament "Urban Warfare in the City of Eternal Nights"

"The City, metropolis of dreams and nightmares. A place of unimagineable riches and pleasures, open for anyone brave, cunning and strong enough to grab. Reach the top and the City will lay before you, for its ruler can only be the truly worthy. Hm? What happens to the ones who aren't worthy...

www.vsbattles.com

 

[Stillwinston]

How good is Raimi's spider sense again? I remember him getting tagged quite often in his trilogy

 

[Propellus]

every match has speed equalized, as explained in the main tournament thread

8-C Tournament "Urban Warfare in the City of Eternal Nights"

"The City, metropolis of dreams and nightmares. A place of unimagineable riches and pleasures, open for anyone brave, cunning and strong enough to grab. Reach the top and the City will lay before you, for its ruler can only be the truly worthy. Hm? What happens to the ones who aren't worthy...

www.vsbattles.com

Still has to be specified

 

[SamanPatou]

Ok, let's see what I can get from this.

So I guess, Nash scales to this which puts him at 1.31 tons of TNT.

Yes, he does.

While Spidey through scaling to Tom Holland Spidey, I guess should be comparable comparable to Captain America who tanked this. Which should put Spidey at 0.91 tons of TNT.

Kind of, iirc Cap America is still superior to Spider-Man and I believe it's much safer to mainly consider Raimi Spider-Man's best durability feat, which is surviving a pumpking bomb whose yeld has been calced as 0.5 tons.
Accounting that, the difference is a little more than 2X, but at the same time we have to consider that Spidey was badly damaged by the bomb, meaning that Nash's blows are going to hurt a lot. Nash can also boost the power of his special attacks, of an unknown amount, but it's still something.

The setting is favorable for both, as they are very mobile, well-versed in stealth and used to such environment. Spidey lives in a city and has his own stealth feats, while Nash has formal training in stealth and assassination and performed some vigilante-like activity.

Nash is undoubtedly the best fighter of the two. He has received actual combat training, has many years of experience as a fighter and a soldier, and has very good skill feats. He can basically be considered a much better version of Guile, having taught him everything he knows and still being superior to him to this day, could keep Chun-Li at bay with easy, stalemated poster boy Ryu, defeated Fang (the guy who can melt you alive with a simple graze) and went toe to toe with a restricted M. Bison twice.
In a fistfight, Spider-Man is going to be destroyed with ease, even because of the aforementioned AP advantage. And remember that Nash's ki attacks are sharp, and would cause severe cuts on Spider-Man, if not slicing him right away.

The range of their projectiles is somewhat even, but Nash is more than used at fighting opponents who employ projectiles with great skill, and is helped by his speed amps and acrobatics. He can also shoot Sonic Boom in rapid succession, and "Sonic Break" is a flurry of them.
Spider-Man has his senses (which I will tackle later) and acrobatics, but was also intercepted by Octopus tossing stuff at him, meaning that he isn't completely flawless. Countering Nash's projectiles with webs as he did to the pumpkin bombs is also of questionable utilty, as they are are energy blades that carry more force than the webs themselves.

In mobility, Spider-Man has an advantage given by his webs which allow him to reach high spots and swing for long distances, but Nash can use his ki attacks to cut the web, use the speed amps to keep his pace or even surpass him, climb buildings and structures with said amps (as he did here) and strike with one of his aerial attacks or aerial throws (such as ''Air Jack" and the second unnamed one).

As others said, Peter's Spider-Sense is his most useful ability, but we also have to remember that he has always reacted to pretty mundane or telegraphed things. Far from me to downplay it, but we have to remember the several times he's been hit (more here, in some previous links and other fight scenes like the one against Octopus over the roofs of New York).
Precognition and slowed perception of time are there without a doubt, but they don't grant him the ability to Ultra Instinct everything, also because being able to foresee something doesn't automatically translate in your ability to properly avoid it, especially if your enemy is as fast as you or more.

For these reasons Nash is more than likely to land quite a few hits, accounting that he is much more skilled and battle-savvy than Spider-Man's previous foes. Nash is also quite the analytical fighter (these images won't load at first, but you just need to refresh the page), and would quickly figure out that his opponent possesses super senses, and would work in order to make his attacks more dangerous, less easy to react to, maybe even distract Peter and such, let alone the fact that Peter himself will have a very hard time landing hits due to the skill difference.

Lastly, it's true that Spidey's webs are stronger than Nash's Lifting Strength, but Peter isn't known for restraining his opponents with them even when he would have the chance. And you have to remember that Nash is used at fighting expert projectile-users, and his sharp ki attacks would allow him to cut through the webs, even if it means doing some awkward acrobatic stunt or kick infused with ki, something he's more than capable of doing.


All in all, the battle can unfold in a variety of ways, but in my opinion Nash is going to seize the victory most of the times.

i hope you're not writing a page long argument right now

Also, sorry for this, lol, I couldn't refrain from doing it...

 

[Oleggator]

Ok, let's see what I can get from this.


Yes, he does.


Kind of, iirc Cap America is still superior to Spider-Man and I believe it's much safer to mainly consider Raimi Spider-Man's best durability feat, which is surviving a pumpking bomb whose yeld has been calced as 0.5 tons.
Accounting that, the difference is a little more than 2X, but at the same time we have to consider that Spidey was badly damaged by the bomb, meaning that Nash's blows are going to hurt a lot. Nash can also boost the power of his special attacks, of an unknown amount, but it's still something.

The setting is favorable for both, as they are very mobile, well-versed in stealth and used to such environment. Spidey lives in a city and has his own stealth feats, while Nash has formal training in stealth and assassination and performed some vigilante-like activity.

Nash is undoubtedly the best fighter of the two. He has received actual combat training, has many years of experience as a fighter and a soldier, and has very good skill feats. He can basically be considered a much better version of Guile, having taught him everything he knows and still being superior to him to this day, could keep Chun-Li at bay with easy, stalemated poster boy Ryu, defeated Fang (the guy who can melt you alive with a simple graze) and went toe to toe with a restricted M. Bison twice.
In a fistfight, Spider-Man is going to be destroyed with ease, even because of the aforementioned AP advantage. And remember that Nash's ki attacks are sharp, and would cause severe cuts on Spider-Man, if not slicing him right away.

The range of their projectiles is somewhat even, but Nash is more than used at fighting opponents who employ projectiles with great skill, and is helped by his speed amps and acrobatics. He can also shoot Sonic Boom in rapid succession, and "Sonic Break" is a flurry of them.
Spider-Man has his senses (which I will tackle later) and acrobatics, but was also intercepted by Octopus tossing stuff at him, meaning that he isn't completely flawless. Countering Nash's projectiles with webs as he did to the pumpkin bombs is also of questionable utilty, as they are are energy blades that carry more force than the webs themselves.

In mobility, Spider-Man has an advantage given by his webs which allow him to reach high spots and swing for long distances, but Nash can use his ki attacks to cut the web, use the speed amps to keep his pace or even surpass him, climb buildings and structures with said amps (as he did here) and strike with one of his aerial attacks or aerial throws (such as ''Air Jack" and the second unnamed one).

As others said, Peter's Spider-Sense is his most useful ability, but we also have to remember that he has always reacted to pretty mundane or telegraphed things. Far from me to downplay it, but we have to remember the several times he's been hit (more here, in some previous links and other fight scenes like the one against Octopus over the roofs of New York).
Precognition and slowed perception of time are there without a doubt, but they don't grant him the ability to Ultra Instinct everything, also because being able to foresee something doesn't automatically translate in your ability to properly avoid it, especially if your enemy is as fast as you or more.

For these reasons Nash is more than likely to land quite a few hits, accounting that he is much more skilled and battle-savvy than Spider-Man's previous foes. Nash is also quite the analytical fighter (these images won't load at first, but you just need to refresh the page), and would quickly figure out that his opponent possesses super senses, and would work in order to make his attacks more dangerous, less easy to react to, maybe even distract Peter and such, let alone the fact that Peter himself will have a very hard time landing hits due to the skill difference.

Lastly, it's true that Spidey's webs are stronger than Nash's Lifting Strength, but Peter isn't known for restraining his opponents with them even when he would have the chance. And you have to remember that Nash is used at fighting expert projectile-users, and his sharp ki attacks would allow him to cut through the webs, even if it means doing some awkward acrobatic stunt or kick infused with ki, something he's more than capable of doing.


All in all, the battle can unfold in a variety of ways, but in my opinion Nash is going to seize the victory most of the times.

Probably yeah, considering webbing is more like a Tom's Spider-man thing rather than Toby's.

LS advantage and spider sense probably can still counter Nash's grab moves and sneak attacks (such as his ult). But overall yeah, I can see more likely Nash outskilling and using his AP advantage for his own good. As well as Raimi's Spider doesn't abuses range so it's eventually for them to be close to each other.

 

[SamanPatou]

Totally, but judging how he's been intercept by much less skilled opponents, I don't see it impossible for Nash to land some grab on him, also considering that they aren't submissions, and the only easy to break out from is the first unnamed one. Technically even Target Down, but the knee in the gut is going to hurt and likely stun Spidey enough to let Nash finish the throw.
I agree that his ult could be avoided, at least under normal circumstances.

 

[Propellus]

Spider-man's Class 25 webbing is gonna be pretty iffy to get out of

 

[SamanPatou]

As I said, this Spider-Man doesn't use it too envelop the opponents as comic Spidey does, there are quite a few instances in the movies where he could have done it but he didn't.

Even then, they're projectiles, and Nash has fought with people extremely skilled at using them, meaning he is more than used to deal with them, his speed amps also work well for evasive maneuvers and his ki blades can be used to counter them.
And even if he were to be stuck in a web like happened to Goblin at the end of the first movie, Nash can create sharp ki blades from his hands, feet and forearms, which can be used to cut the web, occasionally even with the help of some awkward maneuver made possible by his acrobatics.

 

[First_Witch]

Bump

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump.

Also, if I'm not wrong me and Oleg have voted for Nash, so we can count them and even proceed with the next match (as Spidey was Oleg's character), while we wait for more votes (hopefully) or other arguments, who knows.

 

[Oleggator]

Bump.

Also, if I'm not wrong me and Oleg have voted for Nash, so we can count them and even proceed with the next match (as Spidey was Oleg's character), while we wait for more votes (hopefully) or other arguments, who knows.

that is correct, I've voted for Nash, so I guess that's 2

 

[Bruhtelho]

Charlie Nash FRA

 

[Popted2]

Nash FRA, i'm voting completely for making the tournament continue, since i hoped Spider-Man would won

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Nash FRA.

 

[First_Witch]

Seeing as both participants agree to the verdict, i will consider this round concluded

 

[SamanPatou]

True (and votes can still be cast).

 

[Kflare63]

Nash fra

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[rawXDglomp]

Nash FRA SF always wins bby

 

[SamanPatou]

Grace
Also, I could name more than a few instances in which SF has lost tbh.