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Upside Down Man/Great Evil Beast revisions

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Just to throw this out there. The collective unconscious during this story was presented as the subconscious of magic and Hecate. And magic was displayed as tied into the fabric of reality during this story.

Justice-League-Dark-6-spoilers-D.jpg

Which kind of aligns with belief being what the multiverse is built upon as stated by Metron during Death Metal.

Dark-Nights-Death-Metal-Rise-of-the-New-God-1-spoilers-14.jpg
 
Just to throw this out there. The collective unconscious during this story was presented as the subconscious of magic and Hecate. And magic was displayed as tied into the fabric of reality during this story.

Yeah, not saying otherwise. Just saying that from what I know magic and humanity's ability to shape the Sphere of the Gods through their belief was something that Hecate gave them.

Which kind of aligns with belief being what the multiverse is built upon as stated by Metron during Death Metal.

I don't think we should scale her to the Source though.
 
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Idk why hecate would scale to the source? Th source is literally more powerful than perpetua who is more powerful than hecate.
 
Amakasu said:
Idk why hecate would scale to the source? Th source is literally more powerful than perpetua who is more powerful than hecate.
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I'm replying to the post by Xearsay which says that everything including the Source is based on belief. Just saying that I don't agree if he's imlying that Hecate should scale to the Source
 
Sandman31 said:
Just to throw this out there. The collective unconscious during this story was presented as the subconscious of magic and Hecate. And magic was displayed as tied into the fabric of reality during this story.

Yeah, not saying otherwise. Just saying that from what I know magic and humanity's ability to shape the Sphere of the Gods through their belief was something that Hecate gave them.

Which kind of aligns with belief being what the multiverse is built upon as stated by Metron during Death Metal.

I don't think we should scale her to the Source though.
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Maybe not to the Source but definitely to the Multiverse. As shown in one of the scans I posted the Upside Down Man literally draws energy from The Source. So he can’t be beyond it.
 
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Antvasima said:
Thank you. I will unlock the two pages. Tell me here when you are done.
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Ok, I think possibly 1-A is fine because though dreams and this collective unconscious may have some similar properties, from what people here said and from what I read , I think they have different origins so I think a "possibly" is more appropriate than a straight 1-A


Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the Sphere of the Gods, a metaphysical reality which is a higher plane of existence than the Orrery of Worlds, which contains the 5-dimensional Bleed. Manitou Dawn could have destroyed Rama Kushna with a facet of Hecate's power and Hecate stated that Kama Kushna's power was nothing compared to her own. Her power is beyond that of other gods), possibly Outerverse level (Hecate was the one who bestowed magic and beliefs into mankindwhich gave rise to the pantheon of gods and their creation stories. Creation stories are the oldest stories and changing them could change reality itself)
 
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That seems fine to me. Feel free to apply the changes.
 
Sandman31 said:
Ok, I think possibly 1-A is fine because though dreams and this collective unconscious may have some similar properties, from what people here said and from what I read , I think they have different origins so I think a "possibly" is more appropriate than a straight 1-A


Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the Sphere of the Gods, a metaphysical reality which is a higher plane of existence than the Orrery of Worlds, which contains the 5-dimensional Bleed. Manitou Dawn could have destroyed Rama Kushna with a facet of Hecate's power and Hecate stated that Kama Kushna's power was nothing compared to her own. Her power is beyond that of other gods), possibly Outerverse level (Hecate was the one who bestowed magic and beliefs into mankindwhich gave rise to the pantheon of gods and their creation stories. Creation stories are the oldest stories and changing them could change reality itself)
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Shouldn't being the owner of her own metaphorical realm in the crest of the collective unconscious above the Godsphere still count as just straight up 1-A? As it would be more archetypal than the dreaming?
 
Xearsay said:
above the Godsphere
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The Collective Unconscious isn't above the Godsphere, it's an energy that contributes to it. There is a scan where it's said that the peak or "crest" of the CU is above the Sphere, but that's not a statement of it being transcendent.
 
Deagonx said:
The Collective Unconscious isn't above the Godsphere, it's an energy that contributes to it. There is a scan where it's said that the peak or "crest" of the CU is above the Sphere, but that's not a statement of it being transcendent.
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Read my comment again. I said the "the crest of the collective unconscious above the Godsphere."
 
Xearsay said:
I said the "the crest of the collective unconscious above the Godsphere."
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I'm aware, I was addressing the potential implication that the CU was greater than the Sphere or somehow transcendent to it due to that scan, which is never suggested.
 
If you were aware you then wouldn't have even tried and failed to correct me on that lol.
 
Malomtek said:
In what way specifically?

I gotta say that this is some hilariously blatant trolling you're doing here. The attempt at acting like you're some sort of "commander of the forums" is a nice touch.
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I am not on the side of terrible ethics that praises and supports users even after they get caught lying and censoring the full conversation they had with an author. I caught this user in the act lying about this, but you said nothing. The conversation that was censored by him was used to justify the data points and ranking that was currently active for the rating system. The actual rest of the conversation that was hidden for an entire year by this user, which was found by me a short time ago, it changes that information. My getting heated over it and saying I felt bad about even having to address it in that hostile manner is you thinking I am seriously trolling...?

...but you had no problem with the user who lied to your face on that Twitter exchange, who considers you so naive and so inept that he can lie to your faces knowing you won't go read the rest of it. And you never did. None of you did. You don't consider that a giga-trolling? You got trolled by this guy. The entire forum and the entire rating system was trolled by him. Kid is laughing at all of you for believing him and not going to read the rest of the Twitter exchange that he actively censored from you for an entire year. That's trolling, dude.
 
Well, if you have exposed blatant misdirection that prevented accurate tiering, that is obviously commendable. However, can somebody remind me specifically what the issue you are talking about is please?
 
MichaelJZero said:
after they get caught lying and censoring the full conversation they had with an author. I caught this user in the act lying about this, but you said nothing.
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I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that I never lied, demonstrating that I uploaded the full exchange on the same day more than 9 months ago.

You're the one who is caught in a lie, not me.


Antvasima said:
However, can somebody remind me specifically what the issue you are talking about is please?
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I had an exchange with Tynion on Twitter about UDM and the GEB. The important bits are summed up in the first exchange but I asked him for clarification about what he said regarding "original intent"

Michael is alleging that I hid the tweets from the community. After he said that I screenshotted my gallery from Comicvine proving that I uploaded both parts of the Twitter exchange on the same day in April 2020, proving utterly that I never hid that part of the conversation.

As per usual, he ignored the proof and as you can see is still spouting this false accusation in excruciating detail.
 
Okay. That obviously isn't good then.

Anyway, I am still waiting for somebody knowledgeable to update Hecate and TUDM according to Sandman31's conclusions.
 
Deagonx said:
I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that I never lied, demonstrating that I uploaded the full exchange on the same day more than 9 months ago.

You're the one who is caught in a lie, not me.



I had an exchange with Tynion on Twitter about UDM and the GEB. The important bits are summed up in the first exchange but I asked him for clarification about what he said regarding "original intent"

Michael is alleging that I hid the tweets from the community. After he said that I screenshotted my gallery from Comicvine proving that I uploaded both parts of the Twitter exchange on the same day in April 2020, proving utterly that I never hid that part of the conversation.

As per usual, he ignored the proof and as you can see is still spouting this false accusation in excruciating detail.
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Someone please call Steve Orlando here maybe he can help. That thread he made with that interview sure showed everyone, ammiright @MichaelJZero @steveorlando
Soz for the bump, literally just saw this after I came back onto here.
 
While it would be nice for the author to directly weigh in I guess, Steve has far more important things to do than weigh in on some random internet battle board thread.
 
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but New 52 and in turn Rebirth Zatara and Sagon didn't die from the Great Darkness.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
While it would be nice for the author to directly weigh in I guess, Steve has far more important things to do than weigh in on some random internet battle board thread.
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I'm not sure if i am allowed to post links to other forums/battle boards, but Michael faked an interview by pretending to be Steve Orlando, hence I find ironic how he said how Deagon lied when he basically did something theoretically worse than what he claimed Deagon did. Basically that thread was littered with memes and got eventually closed because no one believed him for a second. He is still using that "interview" elsewhere on other sites and claiming how The Presence is the Monitor and something silly like that.
But this getting into the realms of derailment. So I will kindly drop it.
 
Antvasima said:
I am still waiting for somebody knowledgeable to update Hecate and TUDM according to Sandman31's conclusions.
Click to expand...
So is somebody who knows what he or she is doing willing to handle this please?
 
Sandman31 said:
Ok, I think possibly 1-A is fine because though dreams and this collective unconscious may have some similar properties, from what people here said and from what I read , I think they have different origins so I think a "possibly" is more appropriate than a straight 1-A


Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the Sphere of the Gods, a metaphysical reality which is a higher plane of existence than the Orrery of Worlds, which contains the 5-dimensional Bleed. Manitou Dawn could have destroyed Rama Kushna with a facet of Hecate's power and Hecate stated that Kama Kushna's power was nothing compared to her own. Her power is beyond that of other gods), possibly Outerverse level (Hecate was the one who bestowed magic and beliefs into mankindwhich gave rise to the pantheon of gods and their creation stories. Creation stories are the oldest stories and changing them could change reality itself)
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@Antvasima

This is what has been accepted, yes?
 
Firestorm808 said:
@Antvasima I made the revisions.
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Suggestion. You should add a footnote on the Hecate and the Upside Down Man's profiles about the Great Darkness retcon and also the confusions about Hecate & Upside Down Man being above the Presence/Source.

Finally, I think that we should make a second key for the Great Darkness/Great Evil Beast with a "At least Low 1-C, possibly 1-A" or "Low 1-C" rating for being equal to an "aspect" of the Presence (Otherwise that would put Hecate & UDM beyond the Presence/ Source) and being able to nearly destroy heaven. This would avoid more confusion.
 
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Thank you for helping out Firestorm808.

Elizio33 makes sense to me btw. What he suggests should preferably be done.
 
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