Unwritten, Fables, and DC Continuity Connection

[XXKINGXX69]

We say that the Unwritten is non canon to DC because its creator owned, but in The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse Simply Explained, they treat creator owned stuff as part of the continuity. Fables is also canon to unwritten if you read the last 4 issues, and Batman appears in this comic issue 4 with Fables characters and its stated he came from another dimension and Earth (obviously referring to Prime Earth) and the comic says that those are the characters from Fables

 

[Confluctor]

1. Lol
2. Source of second scan. Despite it being absolutely meaningless
3. Fables crossover with Unwritten, as a homage thing, but so what? How does that prove both verses are canon to one another when their Cosmology is vastly different?
4. Although tier 0 Leviathan will be based. There is potential

 

[XXKINGXX69]

1. Lol
2. Source of second scan. Despite it being absolutely meaningless
3. Fables crossover with Unwritten, as a homage thing, but so what? How does that prove both verses are canon to one another when their Cosmology is vastly different?
4. Although tier 0 Leviathan will be based. There is potential

What about their cosmology is different? And what homage?

Its issue 1 of the comic I linked I think

 

[Confluctor]

You think?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

You think?

I believe I think

 

[Confluctor]

Such huge cosmological upgrades and you think? Nice

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It is issue 4

 

[Jibz]

Nah

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Nah

Nice argument

 

[Jibz]

Nice argument

Sagan's standard :/

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Sagan's standard :/

You agree? Ok

 

[Swerzye29038]

The cosmology of the Unwritten doesn't align with that of DC's. At best this is homage, and even if it was in DC, it would be considered non-canon DC and won't affect any other characters or scaling

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The cosmology of the Unwritten doesn't align with that of DC's. At best this is homage, and even if it was in DC, it would be considered non-canon DC and won't affect any other characters or scaling

Prove that

 

[Swerzye29038]

Prove that

Prove what?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Prove what?

That the cosmology doesn't align with DC

it would be considered non-canon DC

Proof?

 

[Darksmash]

Fortnite making all of fiction canon to each other when?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Fortnite making all of fiction canon to each other when?

That's a bad comparison

 

[Swerzye29038]

That the cosmology doesn't align with DC

This isn't something that I need to "prove". The unwritten cosmology or any of it's important characters have never been mentioned or referenced in any DC stories

Proof?

Because the cosmologies are incompatible

 

[XXKINGXX69]

This isn't something that I need to "prove". The unwritten cosmology or any of it's important characters have never been mentioned or referenced in any DC stories

Because the cosmologies are incompatible

This isn't something that I need to "prove". The unwritten cosmology or any of it's important characters have never been mentioned or referenced in any DC stories

I literally showed a scan that Fables was referenced in DC comics, and its directly stated to be the Fables characters, not some non canon crossover

Because the cosmologies are incompatible

Circular logic and hitchen's razor

 

[Swerzye29038]

I literally showed a scan that Fables was referenced in DC comics, and its directly stated to be the Fables characters, not some non canon crossover

1. You showed a DC guidebook that says nothing about the Unwritten or whether or not it's canon to the rest of DC, but tried using it as "evidence". This is a non argument

2. No one disagreed with them not being fable characters. we're saying that it's a non canon crossover, due to the cosmologies not being compatible.

There is no mention of the Presence in the Unwritten or anything similar
There is no reference to the omniversal structure made by the source/presence/the light, which were the first beings in existence and created everything else in DC. For them to even be possible there would have to be a narrative hierarchy under them, but there isn't in DC.
There is no reference to the Overvoid in the unwritten
No reference to any relevant DC stories with the exception that fables comic you keep bringing up that most likely isn't canon
The leviathan is never referenced in DC comics and there is no narrative hierarchy
no reference to super celestials


There is no evidence that the Unwritten is canon to DC, and they have independent cosmologies that don't align with each other. Why is this even being debated?

Circular logic and hitchen's razor

You don't know what "circular logic" means

If the literal cosmological systems of two verses are fundamentally incompatible than they cannot be canon. This has nothing to do with circular logic, im not sure why that was even brought up

 

[XXKINGXX69]

1. You showed a DC guidebook that says nothing about the Unwritten or whether or not it's canon to the rest of DC, but tried using it as "evidence". This is a non argument

2. No one disagreed with them not being fable characters. we're saying that it's a non canon crossover, due to the cosmologies not being compatible.

There is no mention of the Presence in the Unwritten or anything similar
There is no reference to the omniversal structure made by the source/presence/the light, which were the first beings in existence and created everything else in the unwritten
There is no reference to the Overvoid in the unwritten
No reference to any relevant DC stories with the exception that fables comic you keep bringing up that most likely isn't canon
The leviathan is never referenced in DC comics and there is no narrative hierarchy
no reference to super celestials


There is no evidence that the Unwritten is canon to DC, and they have independent cosmologies that don't align with each other. Why is this even being debated?



You don't know what "circular logic" means

If the literal cosmological systems of two verses are fundamentally incompatible than they cannot be canon. This has nothing to do with circular logic, im not sure why that was even brought up

I didn't even say the guidebook mentioned Unwritten, massive strawman

we're saying that it's a non canon crossover, due to the cosmologies not being compatible.

Scans?

There is no mention of the Presence in the Unwritten or anything similar

There is no reference to the omniversal structure made by the source/presence/the light, which were the first beings in existence and created everything else in the unwritten
There is no reference to the Overvoid in the unwritten

There is no need for those to be mentioned dude. Crisis on infinite earths wasn't mentioned in Green Lantern 1990 #67, is that GL comic non canon? Not every single thing has to be referenced

No reference to any relevant DC stories with the exception that fables comic you keep bringing up that most likely isn't canon

I never even brought up an example in a fables story, another massive strawman that proves you didn't read what I said

The leviathan is never referenced in DC comics and there is no narrative hierarchy

Wonder Woman wasn't referenced in Blue Beetle Volume 2, I guess Wonder Woman is non canon. Again, not everything needs a reference. The example I gave is enough

If the literal cosmological systems of two verses are fundamentally incompatible than they cannot be canon. This has nothing to do with circular logic, im not sure why that was even brought up

Post scans of them being incompatible

 

[Swerzye29038]

I didn't even say the guidebook mentioned Unwritten, massive strawman

You used a guidebook statement as evidence for why the Unwritten should be canon. I never said that you directly said that. Stop playing dumb

Scans?

Unless you disagree with the confirmed existing cosmological structures of each verse, why would I need to provide scans? The descriptions themselves prove they do not align with each other.

Here is the DC map of the multiverse

Here are the super celestials

Here's the Overvoid

^^^None of the former fits into the Unwritten, no matter how much you want it to.

There is no need for those to be mentioned dude. Crisis on infinite earths wasn't mentioned in Green Lantern 1990 #67, is that GL comic non canon? Not every single thing has to be referenced

You used a DC owned comic as an example while you're trying to prove why an author owned vertigo comic is canon to DC. Likewise, there's a difference between a story "not being mentioned" and two different things simply being incompatible in nature.

I never even brought up an example in a fables story, another massive strawman that proves you didn't read what I said

Yes, you did. I was referring to this:

Fables is also canon to unwritten if you read the last 4 issues, and Batman appears in this comic issue 4 with Fables characters and its stated he came from another dimension and Earth (obviously referring to Prime Earth) and the comic says that those are the characters from Fables

Unless you didn't type this?

Wonder Woman wasn't referenced in Blue Beetle Volume 2, I guess Wonder Woman is non canon. Again, not everything needs a reference. The example I gave is enough

Your analogy is inapplicable in this situation and I've already explained why:

there's a difference between a story "not being mentioned" and two different things simply being incompatible in nature.

Post scans of them being incompatible

You already asked this. The description alone proves that they are not compatible, unless you are willing to explain how and where the Unwritten fits into this cosmology? Where is the Overvoid? Why is CAS or Mandrakk never brought up? What about Anti-monitor or barbatos? The Eonymous? Nothing indicates that the two are connected.

 

[Darksmash]

That's a bad comparison

Was mostly a joke, just saying appearances of characters from one verse to another doesn't make them canon to each other.

 

[Darksmash]

How would the cosmologies even fit together? Leviathan=DC collective unconscious?

 

[Confluctor]

You are making some insane, and I mean INSANE, changes to the entire verse and it's cosmology, I would recommend you find more proof than whatever this is.

 

[Xearsay]

What’s the evidence for the Unwritten not being canon to DC? The only argument I see on the wiki is that “it’s creator owned” which isn’t evidence of it being non canon as you creator owned stories can still be canon.

 

[Jibz]

What’s the evidence for the Unwritten not being canon to DC? The only argument I see on the wiki is that “it’s creator owned” which isn’t evidence of it being non canon as you creator owned stories can still be canon.

The entire cosmologies don't align in any way shape or form. And trying to mash them together like a triangle block inside a hole meant for a square will just lead to insane contradictions.

Especially when the person running the CRT has provided literally barebones evidence that is completely unsourced.

 

[Jibz]

You agree? Ok

Do you know what Sagan's Standard is?

Prove that

it's self evident if you knew anything about the two verses so you either:

a) no nothing about the verses or
b) are being purposefully obtuse

There is no reference to the omniversal structure made by the source/presence/the light, which were the first beings in existence and created everything else in the unwritten
There is no reference to the Overvoid in the unwritten

There is no need for those to be mentioned dude. Crisis on infinite earths wasn't mentioned in Green Lantern 1990 #67, is that GL comic non canon? Not every single thing has to be referenced

Strawman

Wonder Woman wasn't referenced in Blue Beetle Volume 2, I guess Wonder Woman is non canon. Again, not everything needs a reference. The example I gave is enough

Strawman part 2

Post scans of them being incompatible

Despite it being self evident, someone actually did which should denounce your argument.



Conclusion: King has spouted off fallacies, still hasn't properly sourced his post, and is using strawman's, whilst simultaneously complaining that others are using strawmans....in the same comment. There is one easy solution to this, close the thread and have King make a proper CRT because this involved a massive **** ton amount of changes, and the way it is now is just a cluttered disorganised mess that is wasting everyone's time.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah this needs to be cited

 

[XXKINGXX69]

You used a guidebook statement as evidence for why the Unwritten should be canon. I never said that you directly said that. Stop playing dumb

Unless you disagree with the confirmed existing cosmological structures of each verse, why would I need to provide scans? The descriptions themselves prove they do not align with each other.

Here is the DC map of the multiverse

Here are the super celestials

Here's the Overvoid

^^^None of the former fits into the Unwritten, no matter how much you want it to.


You used a DC owned comic as an example while you're trying to prove why an author owned vertigo comic is canon to DC. Likewise, there's a difference between a story "not being mentioned" and two different things simply being incompatible in nature.

Yes, you did. I was referring to this:


Unless you didn't type this?

Your analogy is inapplicable in this situation and I've already explained why:




You already asked this. The description alone proves that they are not compatible, unless you are willing to explain how and where the Unwritten fits into this cosmology? Where is the Overvoid? Why is CAS or Mandrakk never brought up? What about Anti-monitor or barbatos? The Eonymous? Nothing indicates that the two are connected.

Why does it being a guidebook matter?

You said "the cosmologies aren't compatible", I asked why, you said "because it doesn't fit into the unwritten". That's not a valid argument at all. What do those links even prove? Elaborate on that

Is there something wrong with using a DC owned comic to prove something is canon to DC????

That wasn't even a fables comic I mentioned, I was talking about a DC Comic where its stated characters from Fables appear in it

there's a difference between a story "not being mentioned" and two different things simply being incompatible in nature.

Ok, prove they're incompatible

The description alone proves that they are not compatible, unless you are willing to explain how and where the Unwritten fits into this cosmology?

The leviathan just embodies everything, thats it. Not complicated

Where is the Overvoid? Why is CAS or Mandrakk never brought up? What about Anti-monitor or barbatos? The Eonymous? Nothing indicates that the two are connected.

Why do those need to be mentioned?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

How would the cosmologies even fit together? Leviathan=DC collective unconscious?

There are more than 1 collective unconscious in DC

You are making some insane, and I mean INSANE, changes to the entire verse and it's cosmology, I would recommend you find more proof than whatever this is.

So you don't have any counter arguments, and instead choose to say "more evidence please"? Thats really petty.

 

[Greenshifter]

Imma give my 2 cents here. I found out about the Unwritten and Leviathan because of it being treated as DC’s top dog off-site by people who are VERY knowledgeable on DC (to the point I’m fodder to them). They seem to treat Unwritten as an expansion to the cosmology and not a contradiction to it.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The entire cosmologies don't align in any way shape or form. And trying to mash them together like a triangle block inside a hole meant for a square will just lead to insane contradictions.

Do you know what Sagan's Standard is?


it's self evident if you knew anything about the two verses so you either:

a) no nothing about the verses or
b) are being purposefully obtuse

Strawman

Strawman part 2

Despite it being self evident, someone actually did which should denounce your argument.



Conclusion: King has spouted off fallacies, still hasn't properly sourced his post, and is using strawman's, whilst simultaneously complaining that others are using strawmans....in the same comment. There is one easy solution to this, close the thread and have King make a proper CRT because this involved a massive **** ton amount of changes, and the way it is now is just a cluttered disorganised mess that is wasting everyone's time.

Sagan's Standard is just appeal to absurdity

You ran out of arguments, so you decided to just say "you no nothing about the verses"

Prove those are strawmans

And no, he didn't provide any evidence of the cosmologies being incompatible, he just sent wiki links to characters and said "not compatible lol"

Conclusion: King has spouted off fallacies, still hasn't properly sourced his post, and is using strawman's, whilst simultaneously complaining that others are using strawmans....in the same comment. There is one easy solution to this, close the thread and have King make a proper CRT because this involved a massive **** ton amount of changes, and the way it is now is just a cluttered disorganised mess that is wasting everyone's time.

I did source this post, stop being dishonest. I also like how you convieniently ignored my argument that being creator owned doesn't mean its non canon, because you don't have a counter argument to it

 

[Greenshifter]

Kek, did you get that of of Zamasu? In each case +10 style points for you .

 

[Confluctor]

So you don't have any counter arguments, and instead choose to say "more evidence please"? Thats really petty

If you read carefully, I don't think I have disagreed with this, and ofc, I haven't agreed with it either.

Since, according to you, I don't read DC comics at all, why don't you go ahead and explain to me why this verse should be considered canon to other verse? And I mean, really really explain, going full in details of all cosmological references and whatnot.

 

[Jibz]

Sagan's Standard is just appeal to absurdity

You ran out of arguments, so you decided to just say "you no nothing about the verses"

Prove those are strawmans

And no, he didn't provide any evidence of the cosmologies being incompatible, he just sent wiki links to characters and said "not compatible lol"

uhh no its that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence also they clearly are strawmans

I did source this post, stop being dishonest. I also like how you convieniently ignored my argument that being creator owned doesn't mean its non canon, because you don't have a counter argument to it

Send links, rather then just blanket statements of "i think its this issue actually wait its this issue"

Also i didn't ignore your argument, because i never made it in the first place dumbass.


You have not facilitated the requirement of Sagan's standard and thus i can evoke Hitchen's Razor. I can't debunk something you've provided no substantial evidence for, because what is there to debunk? Nothing you've stated directly confirms Unwritten to be canonical to DC, or how the verses would interlink cosmology wise if they did. All you've done is assert your rhetoric.

 

[Darksmash]

There are more than 1 collective unconscious in DC

That doesn't answer my question in absolutely any way

 

[Y3kthunder]

The only references to DC or vertigo that I remember outside of fables is a reference to superman and books of magic in which both of these are just comics inside toms universe. And there is multiple uh references or mentions of Lucifer by the series main villain which is probably just a homage to the fact Carey wrote both stories

 

[Swerzye29038]

What’s the evidence for the Unwritten not being canon to DC? The only argument I see on the wiki is that “it’s creator owned” which isn’t evidence of it being non canon as you creator owned stories can still be canon.

Just because there isn’t evidence of it NOT being canon doesn’t mean that IS canon. Did the Unwritten just miss the entire cosmology of DC, and vice versa?

 

[Swerzye29038]

Why does it being a guidebook matter?

You don’t even understand what you’re arguing. You brought the guidebook and tried using it as evidence for why the Unwritten should be considered evidence. As I’ve already explained, the guidebook never actually mentions the Unwritten, so this is a non argument

You said "the cosmologies aren't compatible", I asked why, you said "because it doesn't fit into the unwritten". That's not a valid argument at all. What do those links even prove? Elaborate on that

This is something I’ve already explained. The cosmologies are incompatible because the Unwritten’s cosmology has never been mentioned or referenced to within DC, or vice versa. Where does the presence fit into DC if the leviathan is actually the supreme being? Where is the hierarchy of worlds in DC and where does it fit into the cosmology? Where is the Overvoid and the super celestials? You can’t just claim that the DC and the Unwritten are canon and refuse to elaborate on how they would fit into their cosmologies.

Is there something wrong with using a DC owned comic to prove something is canon to DC????

Yes, there is, when the comic book in question isn’t DC owned. The green lantern has consistently appeared in the verse and is a DC title/character, none of this applies to the Unwritten.

That wasn't even a fables comic I mentioned, I was talking about a DC Comic where its stated characters from Fables appear in it

When I said “fables comic” I was referring to the characters, not the comic book series itself.

Ok, prove they're incompatible



The leviathan just embodies everything, thats it. Not complicated

1. I already explained why they’re incompatible

2. What evidence do you have that the Leviathan embodies DC? Where has this been shown in DC comics to be the case?

Why do those need to be mentioned?

why should we consider the Unwritten canon if nothing important to DC’s cosmology is ever brought up or mentioned? The Unwritten and DC have never been shown or stated to be canon and they do not connect story wise whatsoever, so what other reason should they be considered canon?