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Unofficial Powers and Abilities Addition Thread 4

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@Agnaa Well actually, skill is rather more of ultizing the knowledge you have to perform a natural ability you can be capable of doing using said knowledge than intelligence, which involves how fast you can learn said knowledge in general but I don't want to get into that topic for now.

I mean, with Power Modification, you can make something like regular Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation, make someone's time Manipulation affect time in all 3 parts of an entire timeline, be able to control multiple minds instead of just one at a time (something that most people can't do with just mind control alone if there's cases where they need outside sources to use their abilities to this extent) and etc.

And you're still arguing that Power Manipulation alone can do all of that? Absolutely not in the slightest.

That is the main way of how Power Manipulation usually works, being used against someone. Controlling only your powers is a limitation, letting somone have control over it is Power Bestowal (which not every user can do b/c its a different separate ability), letting someone have control over it by syncing your body with your teammate to do the job for you is Synchronization (also a different separate ability that not every user can do) and etc. that involves a number of forms of Power Manipulation that requires you to also have a different ability that you must be stated and/or shown to have.

Well that's because Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation in a way (unlike Power Modification, which is more different) as that allows you to do this temporarily and can be used at any time once you have access to someone's powers & if you still maintain access to it. So it would be more preferred to have both Power Manipulation and Power Modification separately with their own pages.

Its like Possession, once you take over a body or something that can work like one, you have control over it but you can't make the possessed body any better or worse than it already is b/c the physical capabilities of the possessed body varies as it could either work in your benefit or give you more limitations than you would've had without it.
 
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Well actually, skill is rather more of ultizing the knowledge you have to perform a natural ability you can be capable of doing using said knowledge than intelligence, which involves how fast you can learn said knowledge in general but I don't want to get into that topic for now.

For the sake of our pages, it's intelligence.

I mean, with Power Modification, you can make something like regular Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation, make someone's time Manipulation affect time in all 3 parts of an entire timeline, be able to control multiple minds instead of just one at a time (something that most people can't do with just mind control alone if there's cases where they need outside sources to use their abilities to this extent) and etc.

Power Modification can do a lot more than just change potency. Hansode Shiranui can change powers to be completely different ones, turning Kuudou Hinokage's strength ability into a speed ability, turning Zenkichi Hitoyoshi's ability to see through someone else's eyes into an ability that lets him see and surpass his own limits, etc.

And you're still arguing that Power Manipulation alone can do all of that? Absolutely not in the slightest.

With how I think of it, yeah. I don't think that Power Hijacking could do that. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of the post, but it looks like you don't think Power Hijacking and Power Manipulation are the same thing.

Well that's because Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation in a way (unlike Power Modification, which is more different) as that allows you to do this temporarily and can be used at any time once you have access to someone's powers & if you still maintain access to it. So it would be more preferred to have both Power Manipulation and Power Modification separately with their own pages.

I don't see how these two things follow. "Power Hijacking allows you to do this temporarily and as long as you maintain access to the power, therefore Power Manip and Power Modification should have their own pages".

Its like Possession, once you take over a body or something that can work like one, you have control over it but you can't make the possessed body any better or worse than it already is b/c the physical capabilities of the possessed body varies as it could either work in your benefit or give you more limitations than you would've had without it.

As I said in my last post, if you want Power Hijacking to be its own things that's cool with me. Power Hijacking as a new page? Cool. Power Modification being renamed to Power Manipulation, and Power Hijacking being a subset of it? Also cool. Power Manipulation just being Power Hijacking? Not cool.
 
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@Agnaa

  • Intelligence: "Peak Human" = one of the levels of Intelligence
  • Knowledge: The description that goes with Intelligence, which involves explaining why the character is at that level of intelligence.
Once again, I did mention before I don't want to get too deep into it anyways.

Power Modification refers to supernatural abilities only, not statistics. The first thing you're currently describing here is Attribute Exchange and the other would be Eye Manipulation but a better version of it.

Power Hijacking is basically Power Manipulation but by force and I did mentioned that Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation earlier. The one I mainly disagree with being the same is Power Modification, which is different from both of those 2 abilities.

Basically what I'm saying is:

  • Power Hijacking and Power Manipulation are similar abilities with Power Hijacking being a subset of Power Manipulation
  • Make a separate page for Power Manipulation as its a completely different ability from Power Modification and no, this does not mean you have to remove or rename Power Modification.
I prefer Power Manipulation being its own thing, no reason to remove or rename Power Modification (that's clearly not what this is about and I never even propose the idea of doing that at all), and Power Hijacking being a subset of Power Manipulation is fine either way.
 
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Intelligence: "Peak Human" = one of the levels of Intelligence. Knowledge: The description that goes with Intelligence, which involves explaining why the character is at that level of intelligence. Once again, I did mention before I don't want to get too deep into it anyways.

These are both part of the Intelligence section on the page, so I will stick with saying that, for the sake of our pages, it's intelligence. Does not going too deep into it mean that you're not interested in pursuing Superhuman Accuracy as a page any more?

Power Modification refers to supernatural abilities only, not statistics. The first thing you're currently describing here is Attribute Exchange and the other would be Eye Manipulation but a better version of it.

No. Given the context of the character it's Power Modification. Unless you wanna revise Hansode Shiranui's skill which is explicitly about modifying skills.

There are quite a few verses, like Medaka Box where Shiranui comes from, where statistics and physiology are treated the same way as supernatural skills and are affected the same way by abilities that copy/nullify/create/modify skills.

Also, we're not powerlisting wiki. We don't need individual powers for every niche superpower. We do not need a distinction for "Eye Manipulation".

Power Hijacking is basically Power Manipulation but by force and I did mentioned that Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation earlier. The one I mainly disagree with being the same is Power Modification, which is different from both of those 2 abilities.

The thing is I'd only agree that Power Hijacking is a subset of Power Manipulation if Power Manipulation included Power Nullification, Power Bestowal, Power Absorption, Power Modification as well as Power Hijacking. If it doesn't include those, I'm not sure what it's even meant to be.

I prefer Power Manipulation being its own thing, no reason to remove or rename Power Modification (that's clearly not what this is about and I never even propose the idea of doing that at all), and Power Hijacking being a subset of Power Manipulation is fine either way.

You never proposed that idea, but like I said, Antoniofer suggested it when this topic was brought up in past threads. If we're not having it include Power Modification, then I don't want Power Manipulation to have its own page and would rather just have Power Hijacking.
 
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@Agnaa I'm just explaining the differences, not implying that they should be separated but then again, I really don't want too get into that topic for now. As for Supernatural Accuracy, that should fall under Enhanced Senses instead while things like Marksmanship and the like would goes under Weapon Mastery.

No, the context of Power Modification is unrelated to Power Manipulation and saying that it is would also mean that a character has an extra power that they clearly was not stated or shown to be able to use, which is one of the most inaccurate ways of validating a character to possess certain powers.

For Hansode Shiranui's Power Modif...wait a minute. When you said that she "turns" a strength skill into a speed skill, isn't that a form of transmutation (changes the form/structure of something to make it different) but for powers? Power Modification only changes the quality of the powers (the power itself is never completely changed) while Power Transmutation changes the original power to a different power (which is actually what her ability is). Also no, I'm not suggesting a name change or anything that involves revising Power Modification, so don't be claiming that I am.

Examples (just in case you might get confused on the differences again):

  • Power Modification = Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation.
They are both still the same power, the only difference is that the latter is better than the former since changing the quality of the power changes the power into an improved version of it but not into a completely different one.

  • Power Transmutation = Heat Manipulation -> Cold Manipulation or any other power that isn't Heat Manipulation.
The original ability is completely changed to something different and the changed ability works normally with no changes whatsoever to how the ability functions other than how its intended to work as any regular character would do with the ability.

Yeah, we may not be powerlisting wiki but we aren't the type of wiki to make people misunderstand & wrongfully explain the similarities and differences of how these powers properly work either, which is the reason why I'm helping you guys avoid being in that situation. Eye Manipulation is irrelevant to the main point of this and you brought an example which involves a character using that, not me.

Besides Power Hijacking being a subset to Power Manipulation, every other power you mentioned is excluded from this power as its meant to be its own power like how several of every control/manipulating-based powers are already considered of being such.

"You never proposed that idea..."

Yes, yes I did and it was several times in fact before you mentioned this. Power Manipulation is a better name than Power Hijacking as its straightforward and more easier to understand.
 
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No, the context of Power Modification is unrelated to Power Manipulation and saying that it is would also mean that a character has an extra power that they clearly was not stated or shown to be able to use, which is one of the most inaccurate ways of validating a character to possess certain powers.

Not every character with a power needs every subset of that power. You can get heat manipulation for raising temperatures, and you can also get heat manipulation for lowering temperatures.

For Hansode Shiranui's Power Modif...wait a minute. When you said that she "turns" a strength skill into a speed skill, isn't that a form of transmutation (changes the form/structure of something to make it different) but for powers? Power Modification only changes the quality of the powers (the power itself is never completely changed) while Power Transmutation changes the original power to a different power (which is actually what her ability is).

wtf lmao. Just call that Power Modification jesus christ dude. That name works fine for it. We don't need a million different pages for all the extremely specific ways to interact with every substance. We don't need Concept Transmutation and Destruction and Modification and Creation and Erasure, we'll live by just having Conceptual Manipulation. There's no need to distinguish between Power Modification and "Power Transmutation".

Also no, I'm not suggesting a name change or anything that involves revising Power Modification, so don't be claiming that I am.

I never ever claimed that you did. Stop making claims about me that are false.

Yeah, we may not be powerlisting wiki but we aren't the type of wiki to make people misunderstand & wrongfully explain the similarities and differences of how these powers properly work either, which is the reason why I'm helping you guys avoid being in that situation.

I don't understand what you're saying here. There aren't really objective names for superpowers. It really doesn't feel like you're "clearing things up" and enlightening us, it just sounds like you're trying to enforce your headcanon powers like "Power Transmutation" and "Eye Manipulation" on us when such things are wholly unnecessary.

Eye Manipulation is irrelevant to the main point of this and you brought an example which involves a character using that, not me.

Eye Manipulation is not an ability that a character on this wiki has. We are not the powerlisting wiki. Anything which you can call "eye manipulation" is much better described by an ability that already exists.

Besides Power Hijacking being a subset to Power Manipulation, every other power you mentioned is excluded from this power as its meant to be its own power like how several of every control/manipulating-based powers are already considered of being such.

That is not at all true. Conceptual Manipulation covers creation, destruction, modification, erasure, etc.

"You never proposed that idea..." Yes, yes I did and it was several times in fact before you mentioned this. Power Manipulation is a better name than Power Hijacking as its straightforward and more easier to understand.

What? You just told me that you never proposed an idea. I agreed that you didn't, and now you're telling me that you did?!?

Power Manipulation isn't more straightforward if it doesn't include all ways of manipulating powers, and only actually describes hijacking them. Hijacking is more straightforward because that's what it does.
 
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@Agnaa The problem with this claim you're still not understanding is that Power Manipulation is not in any way, shape, or form, to even be considered remotely as a subset of Power Modification, which is a separate and entirely different power. Raising temperatures alone is only Heat Manipulation, yes but being also capable of lowering heat, that's when it becomes Thermal Manipulation at that point.

Yeah, and let's call Transmutation "Modification" instead in this case b/c misinterpretating how these powers actually works is the best solution rather than simply taking the time to understand the important differences between them & not just outright ignoring that completely despite how this method help prevent overcomplications much easier. Seriously no, even these 2 powers are different from each other and you need to understand that. Also, did I not already just explained an example of how they are clearly different? Pretty sure I did.

Never said you mentioned that and your 2nd statement is exactly what I'm saying to you b/c you tend to do that sometimes.

That's no excuse to mix powers by placing them under completely unrelated ones lmao. You should already realize how more complicated it gets when you do that and Power Manipulation shouldn't be one of them. Other than that, if we have powers like Conceptual Manipulation but not Power Manipulation & you're giving subjective reasons why that can't be added, then clearly you're treating powers like this as an exception and that's unacceptable. If we treat Conceptual Manipulation as its own power with associated abilities under it, then there's no reason not to do it for Power Manipulation too.

I can't imagine how would I say something made up that already exists and established to be a common power in fiction while you, however, forgetting the fact that a majority of these powers directly comes from that wiki...yikes, I'm honesty confused how contradicting your logic sounds when you said that. I know Eye Manipulation isn't on this wiki yet, sure but its still a thing in fiction regardless & I'm not suggesting that power to be added here yet and seeing the vague types on Body Manipulation, which could be described more better tbh, I'm not surprised by how it isn't.

Just because it doesn't exist in this wiki does not mean it isn't an actual power which several characters were shown to be able to use before in some form and this misconception some of you guys still believe should never be mentioned at all.

Power Manipulation could cover creation, destruction, and erasure exactly like Conceptual Manipulation in its own page (seriously tho, there's literally nothing wrong with doing that) while also excluding specific powers like Power Modification and every unrelated power from it.

I mean, the main reason why I bought up Power Manipulation in the first place to you because you disagreed on the idea of this power having its own separate page. Yes it is straightforward like Mind Control is. Power Manipulation does have many uses like all other control/manipulation-based abilities have, so that point is invaild or unless you're telling me that powers like mind control is only just about hijacking minds and that's it.
 
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The problem with this claim you're still not understanding is that Power Manipulation is not in any way, shape, or form, to even be considered remotely as a subset of Power Modification, which is a separate and entirely different power.

Yeah, Power Manip isn't a subset of Power Modification. But Power Modification, imo, should be a subset of Power Manipulation, unless you have another definition of Power Manipulation to give me.

Raising temperatures alone is only Heat Manipulation, yes but being also capable of lowering heat, that's when it becomes Thermal Manipulation at that point.

Nope, they're still both Heat Manipulation. We don't need a Thermal Manipulation page.

Yeah, and let's call Transmutation "Modification" instead in this case b/c misinterpretating how these powers actually works is the best solution rather than simply taking the time to understand the important differences between them & not just outright ignoring that completely despite how this method help prevent overcomplications much easier. Seriously no, even these 2 powers are different from each other and you need to understand that. Also, did I not already just explained an example of how they are clearly different? Pretty sure I did.

They're different in the same way that creating fire and bending existing fire are different. They're both applications of Fire Manipulation. Making one power weaker or stronger, adding or removing limitations to it, and turning one power into a different power are all different applications of Power Modification. We don't need whole new abilities for all these different applications.

Never said you mentioned that and your 2nd statement is exactly what I'm saying to you b/c you tend to do that sometimes.

You did say I mentioned that, right here.

That's no excuse to mix powers by placing them under completely unrelated ones lmao. You should already realize how more complicated it gets when you do that and Power Manipulation shouldn't be one of them.

They are related, and doing things this way makes things simpler.

Other than that, if we have powers like Conceptual Manipulation but not Power Manipulation & you're giving subjective reasons why that can't be added, then clearly you're treating powers like this as an exception and that's unacceptable. If we treat Conceptual Manipulation as its own power with associated abilities under it, then there's no reason not to do it for Power Manipulation too.

I've already told you multiple times that I'd be fine for Power Manipulation to be added, if it's considered to be all ways of manipulating powers, including Power Modification, Power Bestowal, Power Nullification, Power Hijacking, Power Creation, and Power Absorption.

I can't imagine how would I say something made up that already exists and established to be a common power in fiction while you, however, forgetting the fact that a majority of these powers directly comes from that wiki...yikes

I've watched a great deal of fiction and I've never heard the words "eye manipulation" put together. A lot of our powers are also on powerlisting wiki, sure, but we don't include the ridiculously niche powers, like fork manipulation.

Just because it doesn't exist in this wiki does not mean it isn't an actual power which several characters were shown to be able to use before in some form and this misconception some of you guys still believe should never be mentioned at all.

What? I believe it's a thing that people can do, but getting so ridiculously specific is pointless when broader powers already cover it. Sometimes abilities don't exist on the wiki and should be added, that's what these threads are about.

Power Manipulation could cover creation, destruction, and erasure exactly like Conceptual Manipulation in its own page (seriously tho, there's literally nothing wrong with doing that) while also excluding specific powers like Power Modification and every unrelated power from it.

Why would it include those things but exclude Power Modification? How is modifying something unrelated to the manipulation of it? Modifying concepts is considered part of Conceptual Manipulation. Modifying fire is considered part of Fire Manipulation. Modifying minds is part of Mind Manipulation. Why would Power Manipulation be any different?

I mean, the main reason why I bought up Power Manipulation in the first place to you because you disagreed on the idea of this power having its own separate page.

I'm fine with there being a page that covers Power Hijacking. I changed my mind when discussing it 6 months ago, and I still hold a similar opinion now.
 
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I would also be fine with "Power Manipulation" if it encompassed everything to do with tampering with "Powers" and "Abilities" themselves then you could be more specific on the profile. I think Power Modification is quite clearly a direct manipulation of "Power" and "Abilities" changing it from one thing to another. Merely having "creation", "destruction" and "erasure" is to restrictive and specific especially if we regard "Power Manipulation" as any interference or interaction with "Powers" and "Abilities" themselves.
 
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@Agnaa If that's an acceptable solution to you, then okay. The idea of having both of pages is what I would agree with the most right now.

Not trying to suggest that we need to have Thermal Manipulation right now, I'm just telling you what it is and how it works. Lowering Heat is Cold Manipulation and lowering temperature (Cold Manip.) & raising temperature (Heat Manip.) would also fall under Thermal Manipulation, which is why I mentioned that.

You misunderstood what I said, when I said "never said you mentioned that," I clearly mean "I never mentioned that you would claim that about me, I'm just giving you a heads up ahead of time to try not to still claim things that I never said which you have previously done so a couple of times before for some of my points I addressed in my arguments earlier."

By association, yes (which is different as it doesn't require the powers to have similarities with each other) whereas for similarities, it would consider the power to be a subset which Power Manipulation isn't one like how Conceptual Manipulation isn't one either.

Okay, just letting you know.

Eye Manipulation is more common than you think, Dio shoots eye beams, Ben has an alien which does just that, Flandre using Eye Magic, Nico Robin using her devil fruit powers to move her eyes in different locations, several characters with supernatural eyes that can perform different kinds of magic and etc. This would fall under a type of Body Manipulation that involves controlling body parts. If we had Object Manipulation, then Fork Manipulation would fall under that but you already know, its not on the wiki yet.

When there are a given list of characters that can use this power, that's when this becomes irrelevant. Superpowers can still exist on other wikis and if they deserve to be added (I'm only referring about the broader powers specifically in this case), then they should be added.

I guess you could make a fair point but Power Modification should be considered as a associated ability under that power instead of being placed under subset powers like Power Creation and etc.

If its possible to come up with a good explanation of how Power Hijacking different from Power Manipulation in some way, then it could happen.
 
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@EmperorRorepme I'm gonna explain the differences between these powers once more, just in case:

  • Power Manipulation = Controls powers, they are never changed just like how you control Fire but you never change the actual element to something else.
  • Power Modification = changes the quality of powers, the context of the wording that this power uses is very important to remember as you can only make powers better or worse.
So with this power, I can make Heat Manipulation be Absolute Hot (eternal heat) and Cold Manipulation be Absolute Cold (eternal cold).

  • Power Transmutation = completely changes the powers and transforms it into a different power but remember, it only changes them but not improve/worsen them.
Basically, I can make Heat Manipulation be Cold Manipulation or a different ability from the original. You can also change the alternate power back to the original too (which that is self-explanatory), so yeah.

Other than that, I'm also fine with Power Manipulation having its page, Power Modification should be added there as an associated power but not as a subset power unlike Power Creation, which is an actual subset power.
 
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Power Manipulation = Controls powers, they are never changed just like how you control Fire but you never change the actual element to something else.

That's because fire refers to that specific element. Power Manipulation refers to all powers, so it includes changing it to other powers. Like how a character with Elemental Manipulation could change elements into other elements.

If you wanna use your definitions in your own time, that's cool, but I'm interested in what are useful phrases and definitions for this site, since this site is the one we're communicating on.
 
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The last two posts are a good enough tl;dr. But if I had to try...

I think we should either have a new Power Hijacking page or a Power Manipulation page which includes things like Power Nullification, Power Bestowal, Power Creation, Power Modification, Power Hijacking, and Power Absorption.

Magi seems to think that some of these powers are unrelated to Power Manipulation and thus shouldn't go on the page, and even that some characters who have Power Modification shouldn't have that ability, and should have "Power Transmutation" instead.

I think that that's getting too close to powerlisting-wiki levels of separation and being nitpicky.
 

Antoniofer

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All right, technically any power that alter control and alter other powers is Power Manipulation, so anything that is called "Power X" qualify as subset of Power Manipulation (be power absorption, negation, creation, destruction, erasure, etc.).
 
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@Agnaa Which proves my point on how they are different, yes. Tbh, our "Transmutation" page is basically omni-transmutation without the "omni-" since we include all types of powers that involves changing things to something different to fall under that broad power which this wiki's literal definition of it also clearly describes it to work like that.

So changing Elements to different ones, which is called Elemental Transmutation (not implying to be added, I'm just telling you what the power is) b/c Elemental Manipulation is just controlling elements in general, falls under Transmutation.

That I can help you out with when I'm available to.

As for Power Manipulation, I would prefer that name for the page instead. The non-subset powers (ex: Power Modification) should be referred as associated powers on the page if it would solve that problem then.
 
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@Antonio Changing powers is Power Transmutation, which falls under Transmutation as a subset and an associated power to Power Manipulation, which actually just controls powers. Power Creation/Destruction/Erasure is fine as a subset, the rest of them should be referred as associated powers.


Other than that, since you're here now, I have mentioned a list of responses for you to check.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination You do realize that's clearly a vague definition to describe Modification, because it's only intended to change the quality of the thing.

Speaking of changing things, we have a page that involves doing that but works completely different from it called Transmutation.

  • Transmutation: "is the ability to alter the form of energy, beings, objects, matter, etc. to change it into something else."
^ This would involve changing the original thing to something different. So think about how Modifications work in a video game, you only change the functions of the things you use in the game, you never actually change the actual game itself because then you would have created an entirely different game from the original, which wouldn't be considered as a Mod anymore.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@The God Of Procrastination You do realize that's clearly a vague definition to describe Modification, because it's only intended to change the quality of the thing.
Danganronpa - All Objections Interjections Refutations Rebuttals Identifications Eurekas Breaks
Danganronpa - All Objections Interjections Refutations Rebuttals Identifications Eurekas Breaks

I got it from [1], and I agree with it, it's you who are being too specific.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination There's a difference between having specific definitions that describes their respective powers and specific powers in general.

If you don't make the definition of the power specific, then unnecessary amounts of constant confusion of what it really means would happen much easier and sooner.

Vague definitions of powers will basically lead to something like this:

  • Transmutation = Manipulation = Modification
 
That's what it's meant to be, though. You could have power amplification as a sub-type, but modification is a good description for what it does. It modifies powers.

It's already plenty specific.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination No, not really. Yeah, Power Amplification can and is a sub-type of Power Modification but that does not apply for Transmutation & Power Manipulation because they have nothing to do with amplifying powers either.

Transmutation & Power Manipulation is specific too and they are already proven to have their own pages with the several differences of how these powers works from other powers.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination Just because Power Manipulation is bound to that in some form (mainly the first part of it), doesn't automatically make it the same power.

Unless you're telling me something similar like generating kinetic energy and generating energy in a form of heat which both originates from the human body is exactly the same power because they are both bound by the conservation of power.
 

Antoniofer

VS Battles
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Heh, I see physiologies like the combination of a bunch of powers, but I'm mostly neutral.
 
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Yeah, you don't really know much from just "X physiology", the powers vary heavily on verse, and even the standard stuff for a creature can be completely different. The underlying connection between members of these isn't even really a power, it's just a trait. Two reanimated undead or vampires don't need to have anything in common other than the fact that we call them undead. Even spiritual undead are sometimes fully corporeal. This wouldn't really add anything to a page, because it's not really a power.

Also, vampires in particular doesn't work as a category, since there isn't even really an underlying principle to them, just a name. If you go with some of the more standard portrayals they're just reanimated undead, while in fantasy settings they often end up more like an actual species than an undead.
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
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The Smashor said:
That sort of power is far too verse-specific.
Things that apply to most user of Type 7 are too verse specific? I gave a ton of examples so this is evidently wrong.

Blahblah9755 said:
Yeah, you don't really know much from just "X physiology", the powers vary heavily on verse, and even the standard stuff for a creature can be completely different. The underlying connection between members of these isn't even really a power, it's just a trait. Two reanimated undead or vampires don't need to have anything in common other than the fact that we call them undead. Even spiritual undead are sometimes fully corporeal. This wouldn't really add anything to a page, because it's not really a power.
I need examples of ghosts being physical that aren't demonic in some way, shape or form.

Said traits are common throughout media, name me some reanimated characters that have a physical response to pain or get tired that aren't subject to an infection, rather than being the deceased.

Vampires are debatable, and can be treated on a case by case basis, there are vampires that fit this category and some that don't, that can be said for a ton of things.

Antoniofer said:
Heh, I see physiologies like the combination of a bunch of powers, but I'm mostly neutral.
There's nothing wrong with streamlining abilities if it means things are more condensed, which is direction we are slowly deciding to take. (And unlike verse-specific things like Servant Physiology, this could be applied anywhere)

Undead aren't represented in the best way here as the only thing we acknowledge them with is Type 7 and that doesn't tell us much, having a page that could link from Type 7 is hardly a negative.
 
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Said traits are common throughout media, name me some reanimated characters that have a physical response to pain or get tired that aren't subject to an infection, rather than being the deceased.

I don't know a ton of media so my examples are pretty limited. Yotsugi Ononoki is a reanimated corpse that doesn't need air and can't get sick, but still has a pain response. It's unknown if she can get tired or not.

Koyomi Araragi, a vampire from the same verse that gets killed and resurrected later, isn't resistant to pain, has a small amount of resistance to disease through Regenerationn, still needs to sleep, eat, breathe, and doesn't have infinite stamina.

Sonny is a zombie who's still vulnerable to toxins and disease, who still feels pain, and I believe he still needs to sleep and lacks infinite stamina.

And unlike verse-specific things like Servant Physiology, this could be applied anywhere

But the good thing about verse-specific pages is that they're perfectly accurate for their verse.

Pages like Inorganic Physiology seem better for this, since they're powers that are much closer to universal and logically follow from the characters' state of being, rather than powers that are only listed because they exist in a lot of verses.
 

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The minority shouldn't dictate the norm, and again, vampirism is disputable as it varies much on interpretation.

I don't know much on Monogatari so I won't attempt to argue with that one.

Sonny is a bizarre instance, as he logically shouldn't be effected by toxins as he is for all intents and purposes dead, his organs do not function.
 
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Blahblah said "the powers vary heavily depending on verse".

So you said "They're common, name me some exceptions".

And so I named some exceptions :v

I'm very very very knowledgeable on Monogatari, so if there's any finer questions you want to ask I'll be able to answer them.

I also don't think that zombies necessarily have their organs non-functioning, I don't really hear that being mentioned so it shouldn't be the default. At best I'd grant that their organs commonly don't function at full capacity, which doesn't have an obvious logically deducible impact on the effectiveness of toxins.
 

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Yeah but there are always exceptions to the norm, but it doesn't discount everything else.

Well, the only exception to organ function ever has been the brain, being disemboweled or being deprived of blood has never been an issue for the undead but removing the head has always been the remedy, but this doesn't apply to skeletons as they completely lack organs.

Undead vary quite a lot and I feel a comprehensive page to highlight important things about them would be helpful, I wasn't implying the page is perfection and was pushing for its application, but rather hoping for assistance in making it better.
 
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I'd say it has, I feel like I've seen tons of undead in fiction die from injuries that aren't to the brain. I also feel like I've seen undead-type beings that can use stomach bile as a weapon, or that eat food (zombies wanting brains, etc.) which is evidence that their digestive systems function.

Sure, I don't have super strong feelings either way for the page being added or rejected, but I wanted to give my comment on these specific points.
 

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Agnaa said:
I'd say it has, I feel like I've seen tons of undead in fiction die from injuries that aren't to the brain. I also feel like I've seen undead-type beings that can use stomach bile as a weapon, or that eat food (zombies wanting brains, etc.) which is evidence that their digestive systems function.

Sure, I don't have super strong feelings either way for the page being added or rejected, but I wanted to give my comment on these specific points.
My page tackles undead and not the infected, as those are different things. Also, the whole "brain" eating thing doesn't necessarily mean their digestive systems function, Titans eat people but digestion doesn't actually happen and they just throw it up.

It's also never been the case of needing food, the only instance I can recall where an actual zombie spoke on the subject is because those specific zombies ate to cope with their bodies physically rotting away.

I appreciate your inquiry, as I wasn't hoping for an echo chamber.
 

Antoniofer

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To be honest, I lost track of this thread long ago. But from what baraely recall, it would be fine to Imperceptibility or Concealment, as Stealth Mastery would be the real life equivalent, and the formers would cover stuff like conceal from powers like psychometry and life-force detection without the need to hide from conventional senses.

And if creating a Innate Capability power allows user to stop creating a power for any profesion, then I'm fine with it.
 
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@Antonio Here's what I mentioned to you + added responses:

  • Evolution may be a part of Biological Manipulation in a way but still different from it.
  • I already mentioned about Power Modification to @Unshakeable and to several other people.
  • Imperceptibility (can't be preceived by the 5 human senses) would be needed and separated into types. which Inodorosity, Ingustability (having no taste as mentioned by @Crzer) and Inaudibility are considered as good examples of it since they fall under that power.
  • I also wish dividing powers into types weren't a thing too but if we don't do that, superpowers would be too complex to understand without separating any possible differences that it may have. Also, dividing sub-powers into types under 1 power reduces the creation of specific powers anyway.
  • Paradox Defiance might need its own page and this pretty much gives you the first 3 or 4 types of Acausality by default, according to what the ability allows you to do as explained on the page.
  • Paradox Existence may be a part of Acausality but actually a different power & there's multiple types of it.
  • Undead Pulse can be named to Perfect Undead (being both alive & dead) and we really need that on the Immortality page since Undead is already a thing, so should Perfect Undead.
  • Also, Deathless Immortality should be changed to "Amortality" (which means neither dead or alive) tbh.
  • Innate Capability would be needed as well.
  • Platform Creation =/= Glyph Creation, using glyphs to create platforms is a type of method of using this ability & there's several different things glyphs can do but Platform Creation can't do, it does not automatically mean they are the same.
  • Trapping Intuition would be the right term since just having the knowledge of being capable of doing it, doesn't automatically mean you mastered it and this applies to all other skills based on having the knowledge to do it.
  • Language Assimilation should be a separate power as you're gathering knowledge of how to speak the language of the person you're using this ability on through physical contact.
  • I agree with separating -lism (ex: Zoolinguilism) abilities into types under 1 power.
  • Concealment would involve not being seen through ESP (Extrasensory Perception)-types of powers, which is pretty unique and I almost thought there was no difference to that from imperceptibility.
  • Stealth Mastery technically does not fall under that, it depends on the method you use for stealth which does.
  • I'm pretty sure Innate Capability does not allow you to do that tho.
 

Antoniofer

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Ok, that do help a little to remember, but not enough, so here a quick opinion:

  • Evolution is either Biological Manipulation or Time Manipulation.
  • You can go with Imperceptibility (or Concealment, call it as people consider it better), and I also agree that Stealth Mastery shouldn't be used to cover that.
  • Rather than dividing powers into types, just but possible applications, if we write down types users will be more focused in forcely fitting the character's powers into the types, rather than explaining the power individually.
  • Neutral about this Paradox Defiance/Existance.
  • If want to change the name of a power better consult it with the staff.
  • If Innate Capability (or whatever name people decide to call it) is a thing, then we do not need to worry about Trap Intuition/Mastery and similar things, just write the skill and redirect it to the page.
  • The form in what Glyph Creation is described it sounds like simply Plaform Creation, so at least for me its the same.
 
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@Antonio

  • Evolution cannot be caused by Time Manipulation as Time affects the growth of your age, not your genetics unlike what Biological Manipulation is actually capable of doing.
  • We can have both, Imperceptibility is based on not being perceived by the 5 senses whereas Concealment is based on not being perceived by ESP powers.
  • You do have a good point, I noticed that some of them have enough information to have their own pages.
  • Okay then, when the time comes, Paradox Defiance and Paradox Existence will have further elaboration on what we should do with them in a later time
  • They are probably busy with other things at the moment, so the name change to Amortality might have to wait.
  • I guess we're all good with Innate Capability then.
  • Platform Creation needs its own page to avoid confusion and a Symbol Magic page for Glyph Creation since Symbols includes Emblems, Runes, Inscriptions and even Glyphs.
 
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Reflex manipulation would be interesting, I remember there being a spell in WoD that let someone influence another's instincts and reflexes, such as causing them to flinch, have their hair prick or is mess with their instincts in other ways.
 
I think something like Skeleton Physiology would be a nice idea since some abilities are inherent in a character that is only a skeleton.

Some redundant abilities like resistance to blood, hair... or simply a Limited Biology Manipulation for the lack of body parts that at the target of these abilities.

And possibly, since some characters are not originally skeletons but what are left of their previous bodies (characters like Brook from One Piece), abilities like Longevity or even Immortality Type 1.

Edit: the idea was brought up here, btw.
 
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@Thelastmlg Paradox Defiance is basically a power that allows you to ignore/be immune to specific types of paradoxes rather than naturally having immunity to those paradoxes like Paradox Existence would do.

@Udlmaster That sounds kind of interesting to have here.

@Theformofacast Yeah, we should have an Undead Physiology page where Skeleton Physiology can be added on it.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@The God Of Procrastination Just because Power Manipulation is bound to that in some form (mainly the first part of it), doesn't automatically make it the same power.

Unless you're telling me something similar like generating kinetic energy and generating energy in a form of heat which both originates from the human body is exactly the same power because they are both bound by the conservation of power.
They are both Energy Manipulation. Technically, both are kinetic energy manipulation.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination Heat Energy and Kinetic Emergy may relate to each other as they are both forms of energy but they are still both different powers regardless.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination But also considered to be 2 different powers despite that.

Seriously though, you got to avoid this association fallacy you're doing when you're considering 2 powers to be exactly the same just because they sound similar but have actual differences.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination Ik and the other main powers I was previously explained the differences between them would still be different even when they both fall under 1 power.
 
Technically speaking, Retrocognition, Clairvoyance, and Precognition are all subsets of Premonition. Retrocognition is perceiving the past. Clairvoyance is perceiving the present. Precognition is perceiving the future. There are various mediums that can be used to acquire said knowledge, ranging from: Psychometry (touching an object or person), Dreams, Crystal Gazing (via crystal balls), Scrying, Chiromancy (palm reading), Tasseomancy (reading tea leaves), Tarot Reading, Pool Gazing, Mirror Gazing and its subset Catoptromancy (using mirrors to spy on the present).

The Extendable Ears from Harry Potter would fall under a subset of Clairvoyance called Clairaudience (being able to hear things beyond your normal range).

A Building/Construction power would probably apply to characters like Tank Dempsey since they can build barriers quicker than a horde of zombies can tear them down. Trap Mastery could be a subset of Building/Construction.
 
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@ChemistKyle Actually Premonition is a sub-type of Precognition, Retrocognition is its own thing besides being the opposite of Precog, Clairvoyance is that but its rather as a sub-type of ESP (Extrasensory Perception) in general, not Precognition or Premonition, which relates to future things.

Yeah, Psychometry involves doing that to know the condition of the object in the past, present and future. The rest of that stuff should fall under Divination, another power we need to have as a page to explain all of that.

That should be mentioned under ESP too. Seriously though, they should really acknowledge these sub-type powers just as much as the main power they fall under, I mean they give the real meaning to the main power's relevance after all.

Trap Intuition is one of those associated powers for that but yeah. In a way, it could be.
 
@Magi ... further analysis (aka wikipedia) reveals you are correct about Premonition being a sub-type of Precognition. I'm used to how Charmed throws it all together under the umbrella of Premonition (I should've known better considering how much else they got wrong). According to wikipedia, they're all sub-types of ESP, which also includes Intuition and Telepathy (for some reason) as well.

Wikipedia also has a monstrous page of Methods of Divinatio that might be useful if we need to make a page for it...who knew there were so many types. Some of them could also be called Remote Viewing.
 
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@Chemist Usually some powers that are considered as sub-types under the main power have their own pages when having several different types of it.

Yeah, knowing that it make take a while to create those pages, it should be left on the list of accepted powers to be added after the forum migration is over.
 
Could the sub-types of ESP be mentioned (with their link) on the ESP page though? Precognition is listed as a possible use on the ESP page (though not linked). This could possibly be updated with the other sub-types that have and/or get pages and using their link.

For example Biological Manipulation lists Shape Change as a type.
 
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@Chemist Yes, that's how it's usually done with sub-type powers such as the sub-types found under Elemental Manipulation.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@The God Of Procrastination Which Power Manipulation already fits this case, yes.
The sub-types will stay, of course.

Also, power bestowal should have two types, one where they grant powers out of their own capabilities (thus losing them), and one where they create new abilities for the target.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination Well actually, Power Bestowal only bestows abilities you already have for the 2nd thing you said, otherwise that's Power Creation in general.

It's like when you have an item and when you're trying to give the same item to someone else, the item you gave to them wouldn't be any different from the one you used to have before.
 
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Magi Hussie said:
@Thelastmlg Paradox Defiance is basically a power that allows you to ignore/be immune to specific types of paradoxes rather than naturally having immunity to those paradoxes like Paradox Existence would do.
So it just type 1 acausality with activation? Sounds unnecessary, literally limited acausality or acausality via x power.
 
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@Thelastmlg That's just a part of it and it isn't a limited Acausality since it can defy all known forms of paradoxes.

Paradoxes that has to do with time, casuality, fate, erasure, events, logic and physical laws can be defied when using this power and grants the user immunity to them.
 
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Acausality Type 1 is just dealing with the grandfather paradox, there are a lot more paradoxes out there that would be fairly interesting if weaponized.
 
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Paradoxes that has to do with time, casuality, fate, erasure, events, logic and physical laws can be defied when using this power and grants the user immunity to them.

Those would be resistance to (insert power here). Being able to defy all paradoxes sounds too NLF in most cases, and too niche in any remaining cases.
 
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@Blah Yeah, exactly why it's just one thing out of the many from Acausality and other powers that you can get with Paradox Defiance.

@Agnaa Ik that, only some specific characters can do that while others can only get resistance to specific ones/most but not all of them.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@The God Of Procrastination Well actually, Power Bestowal only bestows abilities you already have for the 2nd thing you said, otherwise that's Power Creation in general.

It's like when you have an item and when you're trying to give the same item to someone else, the item you gave to them wouldn't be any different from the one you used to have before.
It could still be listed as power bestowal (since it does bestow powers upon the target), but it should be listed whether the powers are new or not.
 
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@The God Of Procrastination Transduality involves being above dualities, it has nothing to do with Paradox Defiance.

Power Bestowal is giving your powers to others, Paradox Defiance is giving your yourself immunities (which doesn't involve powers) to paradoxes (which that's the basic way to understand it).
 
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Magi Hussie said:
@The God Of Procrastination Transduality involves being above dualities, it has nothing to do with Paradox Defiance.
Power Bestowal is giving your powers to others, Paradox Defiance is giving your yourself immunities (which doesn't involve powers) to paradoxes (which that's the basic way to understand it).
It could in a way.

For example, Transdualism will mean you're either both inside and outside, everywhere and nowhere or you're none of them at once, or maybe a third thing.

It would be paradoxical to not be inside or outside everything.
 
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@Udlmaster Transduality would already transcend the dualities and as for Paradox Defiance, its depends on the character in general because not all of them can do that but it is possible.
 
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Question: What would blacking out in a fight against an entire army and running on pure instinct to the point you far extend your physical limits but are still able to function be?
 
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An easier way to describe is that Fighting Spirit is based on willpower & ambition (a desire for power/success/persistence or usually just all of them) which can be triggered from instinctive reactions alone.

Any Empowerment or Amplification you get from that is a bonus.
 
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But in my example the person who performs the feat can't think until much later on when he "comes to" and finds himself outside castle gates. Is it still instinctive reaction despite him mentally blacking out and not being able to think while fighting?
 
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I... Dunno. From the context of the story, he fights amped fodder swarm after swarm, says it eventually got to him after a while, and then he blacked out during the fighting and eventually became aware of his surroundings again by the time he reached the front gates.

In real-life, humans are also capable of blacking out during fights, but it comes from our minds retreating into an insticntual survival mode that makes us enter a state of adrenaline rush IIRC. Does this mean humans can undergo instinctive reaction when in peril?
 
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@Oliver Yeah but then again, controlling order to an degree that it even allows you have a indirect/direct affect on laws and concepts just gives it more reasons why it is its own ability.
 
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Any power ca be achieved with law and concept manipulation, but that doesn't mean every case of it is covered by the two. If order manipulation can do things that aren't heavily overlapped with other powers or there are enough/notable cases where abilities are achieved primarily with order as the base mechanism, then it makes sense to have it as a power (especially since we already have its opposite.
 
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Blahblah9755 said:
Any power ca be achieved with law and concept manipulation, but that doesn't mean every case of it is covered by the two. If order manipulation can do things that aren't heavily overlapped with other powers or there are enough/notable cases where abilities are achieved primarily with order as the base mechanism, then it makes sense to have it as a power (especially since we already have its opposite).
Yeah, especially reality warping and conceptual manipulation since they are baeically the reason for stuff to happen.
 
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Would managing to keep up with a person who has Accelerated Development and Reactive Power Level grant you the same ability? Or would that just be good adaptability, i.e. skill?
 
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Foxthefox1000 said:
Would managing to keep up with a person who has Accelerated Development and Reactive Power Level grant you the same ability? Or would that just be good adaptability, i.e. skill?
Depends on HOW you keep up with them.

If they overwhelm you in all stats and continue to grow, at best skill could help you if the speed gap isn't that big.

If you can keep trading blows with them, you might just be WAY stronger than they were before adapting.

It depends on context.
 
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What would the ability to appear invisible to a camera be? Like, they can physically be in front of a broadcast streaming images live yet all you can see is their shadow on the ground? Similarly, in another broadcast their entire body is obscured and looks like a silhouette as well, seemingly able to control how they appear to a camera?
 
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Foxthefox1000 said:
What would the ability to appear invisible to a camera be? Like, they can physically be in front of a broadcast streaming images live yet all you can see is their shadow on the ground? Similarly, in another broadcast their entire body is obscured and looks like a silhouette as well, seemingly able to control how they appear to a camera?
sounds like limited invisibility.
 
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