Undyne nerf

[Antvasima]

The Smashor, please calm down and behave in a polite manner. Othervise we will likely be forced to block you.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, since the questions seem to have been answered, I agree that we should probably close this thread.

 

[Zhex10]

despite literally being the entire concept of ATK and DEF?

Equip The Locket and the Real Knife right after defeating Sans, and then open the menu.

....

im sick of arguing with you people, you just wont understand the difference between a simple 99 stat of something number and the literal definition of that something. stats were not meant to be a linear and reliable scale and just a simple idea of how strong they might be so you know how much damage youre going to take and how many times you need to hit them. Comparing Chara and Undyne because they have same stats is pure bullshit. comparing them both because Undyne also has DT (and DT makes you fluctate from below average to mutliversal) is somewhat reasonable.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

....

im sick of arguing with you people, you just wont understand the difference between a simple 99 stat of something number and the literal definition of that something

So... You didn't equip The Locket and the Real Knife after defeating Sans, and then oppened the menu?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Zhex10

The difference between Undertale and use of stats in other games is the fact that stats are actually inherent to the story and thus not relegated to the zone of game mechanics.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, this was mentioned in this blog post:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...cation_for_the_stats_of_Undertale's_god_tiers

"This isn't the same as stat scaling in something like Pokémon. Undertale has two sets of stats: internal stats and CHECK stats. Internal stats are not made visible within the game itself and are only found by looking in the game's files. These are the stats that influence how much damage a character can do and how much they can take, just like traditional RPG stats. CHECK stats are, as the name implies, the stats seen when using the CHECK option on an enemy. These stats have no affect on the gameplay whatsoever, and exist only to show how strong one character is compared to another. While they are very clearly shown to be non-linear, they do allow us to see which characters are stronger or weaker compared to other monsters. They're also canon to the world, as Chara makes mention of them"

 

[Zhex10]

....

im sick of arguing with you people, you just wont understand the difference between a simple 99 stat of something number and the literal definition of that something

So... You didn't equip The Locket and the Real Knife after defeating Sans, and then oppened the menu?

just stop with that argument.

im sick of hearing it. it makes arguably no logical sense. stats in undertale in a sense are meant for the player to see. you dont see humans and other monsters going around saying "HAHA YOU SUCK I HAVE 20 ATK AND 20 DEF YOUVE GOT 13 ATK AND DEF", I dont see it canon within the game except for when asriel comes along. It was never meant to be a logical canon for use to scale how many universes a child can kill using dimensional mathematics.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

just stop with that argument.

im sick of hearing it. it makes arguably no logical sense. stats in undertale in a sense are meant for the player to see. you dont see humans and other monsters going around saying "HAHA YOU SUCK I HAVE 20 ATK AND 20 DEF YOUVE GOT 13 ATK AND DEF", I dont see it canon within the game except for when asriel comes along. It was never meant to be a logical canon for use to scale how many universes a child can kill using dimensional mathematics.

Ok, so, go talk to the guy who wrote this:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...cation_for_the_stats_of_Undertale's_god_tiers

 

[Reppuzan]

@Zhex10

Currently, your argument is:

"I don't think it works this way, so that's not how it is."

We're not using Undertale Stats to rate characters haphazardly, but to scale Undyne the Undying to someone who could match Genocide Frisk who was filled with DETERMINATION and has stats comparable to Frisk at his strongest.

It's more like scaling Captain Marvel to Superma than anything else.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Again, please close this. There is no literal argument here we haven't brought up and talked about already in previous and at this point people who are disagreeing are just being spiteful at this point.

@Zhex10 "isn't relevant until Asriel come along"

So we can't use the stats for any UT character because this is wrong, but you can cherry pick because you think it's correct?

 

[Zhex10]

Again, please close this. There is no literal argument here we haven't brought up and talked about already in previous and at this point people who are disagreeing are just being spiteful at this point.
@Zhex10 "isn't relevant until Asriel come along"

So we can't use the stats for any UT character because this is wrong, but you can cherry pick because you think it's correct?

I think that way because it was a representation of saying he had infinite power.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

And that's fine when the other check stats can't be used to scale everyone even if their purpose is to compare other characters only and have ZERO effect on the gameplay?

Oh, and before the whole "well Asgore's 80 Atk and Def so he's also Mulitversal by that logic" comes out AGAIN, here's one example:

Deadpool has a speed rating of 2 in Marvel, but it becomes 7 when he uses the teleportation device he has

The Living Tribunal is scaled at 7 in speed as well.

Is that mean Deadpool w/ teleport is Omnipresent? Hell to the NO.

We do not rely on purely stats in scaling alone, we also rely on feats and lore in scaling characters.

Chara fought Undyne the Undying.

Her stats are 99 ATK and DEF, like Chara (and again, this is not natural stats, these are stats increased via determination, which is much different).

Undying had Determination in her (which is shown Repeatedly to amplify one's physical capabilites in the game, Frisk vs. Omega Flowey/Asriel)

No one in Genocide can fight Chara w/ thier Soul and killing intent combined except UtU, who tanks Multiple hits from Chara easily. Not even Toriel (who's equal to Asgore) could survive one hit from them. Even if she let her guard down, in Neutral you can't oneshot her because you're not using all of your strength and killing intent, unlike Chara who has no problems going all out and killing.

Even when Chara isn't at full power, is doesn't change the fact their powered by a strong SOUL infused with their killing intent, WHILE being fed determination by another source (The Player).

So yeah, that's why UtU is LIKELY 2-B, not straight up 2-B.

All of this in Azathoth's blog in the UT page that can be read, but no one does apparently.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Also, since Ant agreed and no one has made new agruments, this REALLY needs to be closed, nothing is getting done here and topics appearing have already been discussed to the point of death, I seriously think we need a new rule to ban downgrade UT threads unless the arguments are new and not just people complaining aboit the check stats and such.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.