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Undertale Player Low 1-C Downgrade

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StrymULTRA said:
The fact that they're the same being means that they have the same capabilities over lower worlds.

Also emphasis on the "fighting player in UT/DR". They're a being which exists outside said worlds, not inside, as Player has always existed prior to those and is not bound to these. What they did in these games should be in the same key as is the same being applying to those worlds different actions as the structure of both is different, thus require a different approach rather than literally changing the powers they have.
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I meant that contextually. They're only capable of causing these changes inside these game-like worlds in the first place, take them out of that context and they're not even a character.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Playing after Undertale literally means that is the same person. This sounds like argument from incredulity ngl.
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not really Toby can easily be specifically talking about us in that case, not the in-game "player". In the interview he isn't talking about ingame things, he is talking to us as us, as players, real life players, not the ingame representation of the player. You are blurring the lines between the real player and the in-game player, thus your argument doesn't work unless you can prove that he is specifically talking about the ingame player.
 
Arceus0x said:
not really Toby can easily be specifically talking about us in that case, not the in-game "player". In the interview he isn't talking about ingame things, he is talking to us as us, as players, real life players, not the ingame representation of the player. You are blurring the lines between the real player and the in-game player, thus your argument doesn't work unless you can prove that he is specifically talking about the ingame player.
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Considering how meta Undertale is and how importance it puts to 4th wall breaks, to the point Toby himself is a character in the game(s), I don't see why I should give evidence for this, you're the one who has to say how those are separate.
TioKill said:
I meant that contextually. They're only capable of causing these changes inside these game-like worlds in the first place, take them out of that context and they're not even a character.
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I never denied that, but what I mean is that the influence over said worlds is quite similar, just applied differently.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I never denied that, but what I mean is that the influence over said worlds is quite similar, just applied differently.
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So leave them in seperate keys, since they're under these different contexts which gives them slightly different capabilities, as they're """bound""" by the games' own ruleset to be able to use these abilities as a player. Merging them would be making a hypothetical Player which can use the same capabilities under both contexts at the same time, which is inaccurate.
 
TioKill said:
So leave them in seperate keys, since they're under these different contexts which gives them slightly different capabilities, as they're """bound""" by the games' own ruleset to be able to use these abilities as a player. Merging them would be making a hypothetical Player which can use the same capabilities under both contexts at the same time, which is inaccurate.
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Meh, neutral about this then.

However, only the hax should be split, the other statistics will have to be merged anyway.
 
If Chara scales to Player, then why can't Asriel scale to them?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Considering how meta Undertale is and how importance it puts to 4th wall breaks, to the point Toby himself is a character in the game(s), I don't see why I should give evidence for this, you're the one who has to say how those are separate.
Click to expand...
no, you are the one trying to add something, you have to prove that they are relevant to the canon. Just because it has 4th wall breaks doesn't mean this is a 4th wall break. You need to prove that THIS specific statement is an actual 4th wall break, otherwise it is an assumption and nothing more.
 
Originlima said:
If Chara scales to Player, then why can't Asriel scale to them?
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Chara has a feat where they scale to the player and are aware of them.

Asriel doesn't have a feat where they scale to the player, although he is also aware of the player.
 
Greatsage13th said:
How does Chara scale to the player?
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What Tio said, including the fact that Soul absorption is always a big boost in Undertale, whenever is from human or monster. Chara was able to reach them and take their Soul, making them in the same ballpark.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Sorry, I'm very clueless about it. So yeah I'm definitely ******** you right now.
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Alright, except that you have completely ignored what I said before, the fact that even after the Genocide Route, people like Asgore still want Frisk's Soul and Papyrus still notices said soul, etc already should tell you that Frisk did not get their Soul stolen, otherwise you're basically saying that even Souls which don't exist can be used to open the barrier.
 
Arceus0x said:
you have to prove that they are relevant to the canon.
Click to expand...
This already answers from itself. They literally are, given they're the ones controlling Frisk/Kris and the reason why the different routes are a thing.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Considering I'm suggesting in the OP also the merge, quite of.

CRTs can cover multiple things you know.
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But it's really minor in comparison to the main purpose, the title is very clear. Couldn't we leave this to be discussed later? It's not like the conclusion of this minor discourse influences the downgrade.
 
StrymULTRA said:
This already answers from itself. They literally are, given they're the ones controlling Frisk/Kris and the reason why the different routes are a thing.
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i still see 0 evidence. You keep saying it is but our argument is going like this
Me: you can't say x is y because there's no proof
You: x is literally y

it's basically like that. Please provide evidence or just stop.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Alright, except that you have completely ignored what I said before, the fact that even after the Genocide Route, people like Asgore still want Frisk's Soul and Papyrus still notices said soul, etc already should tell you that Frisk did not get their Soul stolen, otherwise you're basically saying that even Souls which don't exist can be used to open the barrier.
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That's not screenshotted nor linked evidence. I was asking for those kind of proofs.
 
TioKill said:
You have two hands, a big brain, and context. Look it up, or play the game, which anyone who has will remember these facts.

Better yet - don't partake in CRTs on verses you are ignorant about.
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You just typed out lines of text without proof or evidence senator Armstrong
 
TioKill said:
No one is obligated to satisfy your curiosity as you're not going to add anything to the thread. Leave already, you are being quite annoying.
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That's Argumentum ad nauseum and ad hominem fallacy for you.

​

Just get the proofs here so we could have a clearer understanding about your theory at hand and get on with it.
 
Greatsage13th said:
That's Argumentum ad nauseum and ad hominem fallacy for you.
Click to expand...
You can't even comprehend the meaning of these fallacies given how astronomically inaccurate your use of them here is.
Greatsage13th said:
Just get the proofs here so we could have a clearer understanding about your theory at hand and get on with it.
Click to expand...
You are a layman in Undertale.
You are condescending and irritating, insistent on participating where you don't belong.
You are not a supporter.
You refuse to look at the source material even when given the necessary information to go look for it yourself.
No one will come out of their way to find evidence that any Supporter would know just by playing the game, as, again, you are being sloppy and lazy on purpose. At this point, you are trolling, or forcing some reaction.


Ending of Genocide Route, True Pacifist-Genocide Route. YouTube. I'm done talking to you.
 
TioKill said:
You can't even comprehend the meaning of these fallacies given how astronomically inaccurate your use of them here is.

You are a layman in Undertale.
You are condescending and irritating, insistent on participating where you don't belong.
You are not a supporter.
You refuse to look at the source material even when given the necessary information to go look for it yourself.
No one will come out of their way to find evidence that any Supporter would know just by playing the game, as, again, you are being sloppy and lazy on purpose. At this point, you are trolling, or forcing some reaction.


Ending of Genocide Route, True Pacifist-Genocide Route. YouTube. I'm done talking to you.
Click to expand...
I don't refuse to look at the source material if you won't link for post any of em here. I'm not an AI that would do someone's work for them. Besides that you're clearly intolerant of minor critiques and unable to learn to use imgur or linking a timeframe to a video on YouTube. Not that it is the absolute fact but a temporary one where you would eventually grow out of. This is not an insult.
 
Greatsage13th said:
I don't refuse to look at the source material if you won't link for post any of em here. I'm not an AI that would do someone's work for them.
Click to expand...
You want to learn the information, you WERE given the tools to do it.
It's not ANYONE'S job but yours to go after this information, your stance here is not worth anything, as again, you are a layman when it comes to the Undertale Multiverse.

Get out of here, like, actually, stop clouding the thread with your bickering about people not showing you the evidence that would be common sense to any Undertale Verse supporter, which are the ones we have to convince, not you.
 
But anyway, since tiokill is unable to elaborate with evidence. We can disregard his previous statements with a grain of salt.

I'll be neutral about changing the stats but agree with everything else.
 
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