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The player 1-A rating (Off)

Napoleondevious

Napoleondevious

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So the player already has an r>f transcandance that get him to low 1C, so we should just change it to 1-A

and also granting him infinite speed i believe, from euclidian distances being irrelevent to the player as agreed in the FAQ, and removing the immeasurable speed rating because i dont see any justifications

agree : henryzx900ruly , Infinitinet
neutral :
disagree :
 
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Napoleondevious said:
really ? i didnt know that, can you link the faq or anywhere where its agreed to be ?


also can i directly edit the profile ? as every premisses were already accepted
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nah you need 3 staff agrees since it's still a stat change for tier 1 even if it seems straight forward.

also for 1-A its just immeasurable because a 1-A existence just cant be bound or measured by normal temporal dimensions which can easily be determined from just this
Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)
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1-A: Outerverse level​

Characters or objects residing in higher states of existence surpassing material composition as a whole, and who are therefore completely unreachable and inaccessible to any and all extensions of the aforementioned structures. Their superiority over such realms, as such, is purely "qualitative"; based entirely on the ontological quality and nature of their existence, rather than any quantitative or numerical principle.

A way to explain their superiority over "physical composition" would be to bring attention to the fact that all of the previous tiers can be expressed as the union of constructs of lower tiers. For example, a 4-dimensional spacetime continuum is at most Low 2-C. However, an inaccessible cardinal's worth of such spacetimes is well into High 1-B+. In spite of the extremely large gap in size between the individuals comprising this totality and the totality itself, the latter is simply the sum of all the former, and as such both ultimately reside in the same state of existence, and have continuity of composition within that state.

Likewise, even the Von Neumann Universe (As well as larger structures still) is still simply the union of many elements that, individually, are smaller than itself. And the same applies to any mathematical space whatsoever.
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and this is a default ability for 1-A existences too
vsbattles.fandom.com

Beyond-Dimensional Existence

Beyond-Dimensional Existence is the state of existing beyond dimensions. In the majority of cases, this will be referring to characters who are timeless and spaceless. That is to say: A "beyond-dimensional" character does not take up any volume whatsoever, nor does it occupy a position in...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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Robo432343 said:
He is 1-A and unable to interact with 3-D characters
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i feel like this is more of a supporting evidence for the player being totally unreacheable to dimensions

"le batteur est controlé par une ame exterieur a l univers de Off"
"the batter is controlled by an entity (soul) outside the Off universe"


The player isnt physically present within the game, which follows the reality fiction transcandance of the player, as having non-empty part of itself contained in a dimensional space would make a non inexistent part of it dimensioned, and so the whole is atteingable by the part while the part is dimensioned, contradicting the very basis of an outerversal entity being beyond any possible succession of dimensional space. (and so unreacheable)

also the player can interact with them by possessing the batter like an avatar, hes just too big to be inside the game
 
Robo432343 said:
He is 1-A and unable to interact with 3-D characters
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And? It's not needed for a 1-A character. As long as both worlds are "inaccessible" to one another (i.e change in quality) it doesn't need the higher reality to be interacting with the lower one.
 
Robo432343 said:
He is 1-A and unable to interact with 3-D characters
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That is not an antifeat - Ultima went out of his way to dispel that idea during his initial tier 1 threads. 1-A is about separation and ontological superiority. The player having limited influence over the game world does nothing to suggest they aren't 1-A, it just suggests that they have limited ability to interact with things that are qualitatively inferior to them. The antifeat would be if the 3D game characters are shown to have significant influence over the player (and not their avatar/player characters).
 
Infinitinet said:
Not true actually. You can just destroy this much but still only move spatially. Thor is an example.
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The point is this is via being a higher level of existence that does not occupy any spatial points or temporal points by being above them and would have to inherently have immeasurable. I don’t care if there are mechanics that allow 3-D beings or whatever to be 1-A because it doesn’t apply here.
 
Any 1A character inherently has immeasurable speed because they transcend spatial and temporal dimensions
 
Robo432343 said:
look
"Before writing this summary, I took the time to do some digging and found that some characters are currently accepted as holding a Reality-Fiction Transcendence over a reality due to some pieces of evidence that are rather underwhelming. These profiles, for instance, treat purely visual depictions of characters viewing reality as TV channels, or a film, as gameboards, as evidence of R>F.

As I've said before, I more or less completely reject the usage of such things as primary evidence for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence. Those would be relegated to being supplementary evidence, at best, but alone would never suffice." - Ultima
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Death of the Author.
 
Robo432343 said:
"Before writing this summary, I took the time to do some digging and found that some characters are currently accepted as holding a Reality-Fiction Transcendence over a reality due to some pieces of evidence that are rather underwhelming. These profiles, for instance, treat purely visual depictions of characters viewing reality as TV channels, or a film, as gameboards, as evidence of R>F.

As I've said before, I more or less completely reject the usage of such things as primary evidence for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence. Those would be relegated to being supplementary evidence, at best, but alone would never suffice." - Ultima
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I mean, it doesn't really change much of the current stance. If the OP isn't accepted as 1-A due to lackluster proofs, it has nothing to do with characters from one level of reality or the other interacting (or not).
 
I'm not really seeing solid evidence of 1-A here.

By definition, a computer program itself is not actually fictional, and editing its code does not require you to be R>F.

It is impressive, and implies at least Low 2-C Information Manipulation, but it doesn't objectively establish anything beyond Low 1-C (via being clearly 'outside of' and superior to the Low 2-C universe of the game.)
 
FinePoint said:
I'm not really seeing solid evidence of 1-A here.

By definition, a computer program itself is not actually fictional, and editing its code does not require you to be R>F.

It is impressive, and implies at least Low 2-C Information Manipulation, but it doesn't objectively establish anything beyond Low 1-C.
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I don't think this would be low 1-C either
 
Vyfourthaccount said:
I don't think this would be low 1-C either
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Could not be, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt since it's already on the profile. Either way the justification would need to change since R>F is now 1-A by default.

On paper, you are correct that this could technically just be between Low 2-C and 2-A.

But if they're truly beyond and superior to a Low 2-C world in an ontological way that would imply at least Low 1-C.
 
FinePoint said:
Could not be, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt since it's already on the profile. Either way the justification would need to change since R>F is now 1-A by default.

On paper, you are correct that this could technically just be between Low 2-C and 2-A.

But if they're truly beyond and superior to a Low 2-C world in an ontological way that would imply at least Low 1-C.
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Fair then
 
FinePoint said:
I'm not really seeing solid evidence of 1-A here.

By definition, a computer program itself is not actually fictional, and editing its code does not require you to be R>F.

It is impressive, and implies at least Low 2-C Information Manipulation, but it doesn't objectively establish anything beyond Low 1-C (via being clearly 'outside of' and superior to the Low 2-C universe of the game.)
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A program is not fictional; however, the reality within the program is fictional. from the point of view of being within the program, their reality is real, but to the player, their reality is not real, nonexistent, just a program code

This is pretty much 1-A
 
Vietthai96 said:
A program is not fictional; however, the reality within the program is fictional. from the point of view of being within the program, their reality is real, but to the player, their reality is not real, nonexistent, just a program code
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That could be an argument, but it would need to be sufficiently established that the character views this programmed world as fictional, and not just lower (and also dictated by code).

Based on the actual scans, there's no mention of that outside of some 4th wall breaks referencing it as a game.

So it could just be Low 2-C universe -> Governed by Type 2 Information (code) -> Creature 'outside' can manipulate this code. Could be in a Low 2-C way, a Low 1-C way, or a 1-A way depending on how exactly you determine that.

With a range of interpretations like that, I think assuming the highest one based off one 4th wall break is a bit much.
 
FinePoint said:
That could be an argument, but it would need to be sufficiently established that the character views this programmed world as fictional, and not just lower (and also dictated by code).

Based on the actual scans, there's no mention of that outside of some 4th wall breaks referencing it as a game.

So it could just be Low 2-C universe -> Governed by Type 2 Information (code) -> Creature 'outside' can manipulate this code. Could be in a Low 2-C way, a Low 1-C way, or a 1-A way depending on how exactly you determine that.

With a range of interpretations like that, I think assuming the highest one based off one 4th wall break is a bit much.
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yeah, pretty much, depending on how you're interpreting this situation, 1-A isn't too big of a reach from what i see, but i could understand the skepticism and the other interpretation angle
 
FinePoint said:
It is impressive, and implies at least Low 2-C Information Manipulation, but it doesn't objectively establish anything beyond Low 1-C (via being clearly 'outside of' and superior to the Low 2-C universe of the game.)
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I don't think they should be any tier, after rechecking it.

The player in OFF in barely quantifiable and has basically no feats besides "seeing the world as a game" but that is done also by any R>F that does not qualify.

Also Low 1-C does not work, as by current standards is either 1-A or not a tier at all. Imo they should be just Unknown off them not having any notable feat whatsoever.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I don't think they should be any tier, after rechecking it.

The player in OFF in barely quantifiable and has basically no feats besides "seeing the world as a game" but that is done also by any R>F that does not qualify.

Also Low 1-C does not work, as by current standards is either 1-A or not a tier at all. Imo they should be just Unknown off them not having any notable feat whatsoever.
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Unknown rating is reasonable i guess
 
StrymULTRA said:
I don't think they should be any tier, after rechecking it.

The player in OFF in barely quantifiable and has basically no feats besides "seeing the world as a game" but that is done also by any R>F that does not qualify.

Also Low 1-C does not work, as by current standards is either 1-A or not a tier at all. Imo they should be just Unknown off them not having any notable feat whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this makes sense to me.
 
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