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Alright, this is 100% being controversial.
Mid Low-Godly Regeneration for High DETERMINATION Users
The argument comes from Frisk being able to resurrect in case they die, and they cannot reach their SAVE File (as even said in their profile), but there is something which is still worth to mention.
As said already in the Flowey's profile, he lacks a soul, and yet he still can LOAD back to the SAVE point when he dies, meaning that DETERMINATION can LOAD even if both soul and body are destroyed.
But how this related with Frisk? As said before, they cannot LOAD anymore in the Asriel fight, given that a Determination user, when they encounter someone with greater DT, they cannot LOAD anymore. And not even Asriel was able to LOAD anymore, as he was forced to make Frisk give up in order to gain control over time, meaning that both of them couldn't SAVE, LOAD or RESET during the fight. Meaning that Frisk was still using their DT, but instead of LOADing back to a previous SAVE point, they straight up just resurrect, refusing to die.
What do I mean with this? DETERMINATION shown already the ability to bring back from complete destruction of body and soul through LOADing, and in case a high DT user like Frisk cannot LOAD, they should be able to resurrect, even if soul and body are destroyed.
It's basically regeneration instead of using time manipulation, so if time manipulation can bring back from soul + body destruction, regeneration should be able to as well.
Who gets this?
Agree: ShionAH, Lynieryz, KingNanaya, Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12, Board3659, Da3ggman
Disagree: Metalballrun, Sans015, TheKingStrategist13
Neutral: Planck69 (but towards agreeing), Roachman40 (but towards agreeing), y3p_owo
Nonexistent Physiology for Chara
We all know that Chara lacks a SOUL after their first death, as even said in their profile in the Immunity to Soul hax, but if you're lazy, they have lost both their SOUL and body after combining theirs with Asriel's in short.
Then Chara possesses Frisk, as already said in the profile, with proofs being Frisk was referred as themselves when looking in the mirror in both the Neutral and Pacifist Route, but in the Genocide Route instead it was Chara the one who was looking at the mirror and showcased that they were in their body after the first Genocide ending. Another is Flowey describing Chara as both empty as him and having a "stolen SOUL", while also recognizing them as Chara instead of Frisk. Basically implying that Chara became a Nonexistent and non-physical being who needs a physical host like Frisk to interact with stuff again.
Another evicence is on the premise of Chara destroying the entire game, but after that, they talk to the player as the void left from the destruction of the game, thus it can be argued that they are made of the same void left after the destruction of the game, combined with the previous evidence.
I think it would be Nature Type 1 Aspect Type 1 at least, given that Chara lacks a SOUL.
Agree: Planck69, ShionAH, Roachman40, Lynieryz, y3p_owo, Da3ggman, Metalballrun, KingNanaya, Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12, Mr._Bambu, Board3659
Disagree:
Neutral: Roachman40
Human SOULs power boost and "Unknown" tier for Photoshop Flowey
Alright, him being just 8-A doesn't really make sense. The boost that Human SOULs give to monsters is exponential as:
A similar character was reverted to Unknown right because of this exponential multipliers from its base form, so if a Human SOUL already gives to a monster enough power to wipe out and exterminate an entire village, and 7 SOULs give a Tier 2 boost, there's no ******* reason to say that Photoshop Flowey is only x6 Frisk, he immensely outclasses that, but the gap is quite, Unknown, so the safest bet is this tier.
Some of the feats he has are:
His "Chara's Soul" key for this reason should be changed to "At least 8-B, likely far higher" instead because of him being superior to lots of full powered humans.
Agree: Planck69, ShionAH, y3p_owo, Da3ggman, Metalballrun, KingNanaya, Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12, Board3659
Disagree: omegabronic
Neutral: Roachman40 (but towards agreeing), Mr._Bambu
Hax for Photoshop Flowey
Flowey should have the following hax in his Photoshop Flowey key, given that he erased humanity while also changing the game's name, intro and overwritting Frisk's SAVE file with his information:
Disagree: Roachman40 (EE, Info and Data hax), y3p_owo (On EE), Da3ggman (Plot Manip), Mr._Bambu (Plot and Info)
Neutral: Metalballrun (For Plot Hax and EE), Maverick_Zero_X (EE, Info and Data)
Minor Law Manipulation for Sans
Basically Sans can infinitely extend his turn, making the opponent unable to attack him given it's still not their turn yet. Given how metafictional Undertale is, and the inability to attack because of the lack of using a FIGHT button being already showcased with Gerson not being able to be attacked in his shop because of the player not fighting there, this can be taken as an actual hax, and Law Manipulation fits this, as Sans is using a rule of RPG games in his advantage.
Agree: ShionAH, Lynieryz, y3p_owo, Therefir, Board3659
Disagree: KingNanaya, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12
Neutral: Planck69 ,Roachman40, Da3ggman, Metalballrun (but leaning towards agreeing), Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, Mr._Bambu
The argument comes from Frisk being able to resurrect in case they die, and they cannot reach their SAVE File (as even said in their profile), but there is something which is still worth to mention.
As said already in the Flowey's profile, he lacks a soul, and yet he still can LOAD back to the SAVE point when he dies, meaning that DETERMINATION can LOAD even if both soul and body are destroyed.
But how this related with Frisk? As said before, they cannot LOAD anymore in the Asriel fight, given that a Determination user, when they encounter someone with greater DT, they cannot LOAD anymore. And not even Asriel was able to LOAD anymore, as he was forced to make Frisk give up in order to gain control over time, meaning that both of them couldn't SAVE, LOAD or RESET during the fight. Meaning that Frisk was still using their DT, but instead of LOADing back to a previous SAVE point, they straight up just resurrect, refusing to die.
What do I mean with this? DETERMINATION shown already the ability to bring back from complete destruction of body and soul through LOADing, and in case a high DT user like Frisk cannot LOAD, they should be able to resurrect, even if soul and body are destroyed.
It's basically regeneration instead of using time manipulation, so if time manipulation can bring back from soul + body destruction, regeneration should be able to as well.
Who gets this?
- Frisk
- Asriel Dreemurr (due to having the same amount of DT)
- Chara (as they have similar amounts of DT as these two)
Agree: ShionAH, Lynieryz, KingNanaya, Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12, Board3659, Da3ggman
Disagree: Metalballrun, Sans015, TheKingStrategist13
Neutral: Planck69 (but towards agreeing), Roachman40 (but towards agreeing), y3p_owo
Nonexistent Physiology for Chara
We all know that Chara lacks a SOUL after their first death, as even said in their profile in the Immunity to Soul hax, but if you're lazy, they have lost both their SOUL and body after combining theirs with Asriel's in short.
Then Chara possesses Frisk, as already said in the profile, with proofs being Frisk was referred as themselves when looking in the mirror in both the Neutral and Pacifist Route, but in the Genocide Route instead it was Chara the one who was looking at the mirror and showcased that they were in their body after the first Genocide ending. Another is Flowey describing Chara as both empty as him and having a "stolen SOUL", while also recognizing them as Chara instead of Frisk. Basically implying that Chara became a Nonexistent and non-physical being who needs a physical host like Frisk to interact with stuff again.
Another evicence is on the premise of Chara destroying the entire game, but after that, they talk to the player as the void left from the destruction of the game, thus it can be argued that they are made of the same void left after the destruction of the game, combined with the previous evidence.
I think it would be Nature Type 1 Aspect Type 1 at least, given that Chara lacks a SOUL.
Agree: Planck69, ShionAH, Roachman40, Lynieryz, y3p_owo, Da3ggman, Metalballrun, KingNanaya, Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12, Mr._Bambu, Board3659
Disagree:
Neutral: Roachman40
Human SOULs power boost and "Unknown" tier for Photoshop Flowey
Alright, him being just 8-A doesn't really make sense. The boost that Human SOULs give to monsters is exponential as:
- Asriel with Chara's SOUL can easily exterminate every human in a village, given that a monster with a human soul is described as a "horrible beast with unfathomable power", implying that Monster fused with Human SOUL >>>>>> Single Human SOUL
- A monster powered with 7 Human SOULs is already Tier 2, aka it's not just Human Soul x 7, but has literally an uncountable infinite power boost from their base form.
A similar character was reverted to Unknown right because of this exponential multipliers from its base form, so if a Human SOUL already gives to a monster enough power to wipe out and exterminate an entire village, and 7 SOULs give a Tier 2 boost, there's no ******* reason to say that Photoshop Flowey is only x6 Frisk, he immensely outclasses that, but the gap is quite, Unknown, so the safest bet is this tier.
Some of the feats he has are:
- Destroying the SAVE File with blows, but this is not exactly quantifiable, as SAVEs in Undertale are only points in time that the user can use to go back to that point of time, and nothing else was really affected from said destruction.
- He destroyed the monsters and humanity instantly after getting the 6 SOULs, but the ways are quite unknown, given he still cannot destroy the barrier without the power of 7 SOULs (and he mostly likely did it through hax, given the entire nature of the feat).
His "Chara's Soul" key for this reason should be changed to "At least 8-B, likely far higher" instead because of him being superior to lots of full powered humans.
Agree: Planck69, ShionAH, y3p_owo, Da3ggman, Metalballrun, KingNanaya, Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12, Board3659
Disagree: omegabronic
Neutral: Roachman40 (but towards agreeing), Mr._Bambu
Hax for Photoshop Flowey
Flowey should have the following hax in his Photoshop Flowey key, given that he erased humanity while also changing the game's name, intro and overwritting Frisk's SAVE file with his information:
- Text Manipulation, Data Manipulation and Limited Information Manipulation (Type 2) (He was able to change the game's name and overwrote Frisk's SAVE File, changing its information with his own)
- Minor Plot Manipulation (Altered the game's intro)
- Existence Erasure (obvious reasons)
Disagree: Roachman40 (EE, Info and Data hax), y3p_owo (On EE), Da3ggman (Plot Manip), Mr._Bambu (Plot and Info)
Neutral: Metalballrun (For Plot Hax and EE), Maverick_Zero_X (EE, Info and Data)
Minor Law Manipulation for Sans
Basically Sans can infinitely extend his turn, making the opponent unable to attack him given it's still not their turn yet. Given how metafictional Undertale is, and the inability to attack because of the lack of using a FIGHT button being already showcased with Gerson not being able to be attacked in his shop because of the player not fighting there, this can be taken as an actual hax, and Law Manipulation fits this, as Sans is using a rule of RPG games in his advantage.
Agree: ShionAH, Lynieryz, y3p_owo, Therefir, Board3659
Disagree: KingNanaya, ImmortalDread, Theglassman12
Neutral: Planck69 ,Roachman40, Da3ggman, Metalballrun (but leaning towards agreeing), Maverick_Zero_X, Psychomaster35, Mr._Bambu
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