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Undertale: Characters Upgrade

Monsters_fight

Monsters_fight

67
10
Introduction:
Our understanding is that ATK/DEF values from 0 to 17 are rated as 9-B and ATK/DEF values from 18 and up are rated as 8-B.
However, I can't entirely agree with this, and here is why.

Attack Potency upgrade for some characters:
In Mad Dummy´s fight when Napstablock appears, his tears damage Mad Dummy. Mad Dummy has stats of 30 and has a City-Block durability, while Napstablock has stats of 10 (ATK and DEF). This means characters with stats equal to 10 shouldn't be way below characters with around 30 like Mad Dummy. Then characters with stats from 10 to 17 should be City-Block Level Tier 8-B too!

And by the way, some monsters whose values from 5 to 16 can take more than one hit before going down.
  1. Greater Dog (ATK 15 and DEF 8), unlike other Snowdin monsters, can take multiple blows from Frisk.
  2. Gyftrot (ATK 16 and DEF 8) can also do the same.
  3. The Dogi (each with 15 ATK and 5 DEF) also tanking well your attacks.

So, I propose this:
ATK/DEF values from 0 to 3 are rated as 9-B, and ATK/DEF values from 4 to up are rated as 8-B.

The following Characters would get upgraded:
- All Ruins Monsters
  • All Snowdin Monsters including Glyde ( except Jerry)
  • So Sorry
  • Endogeny
  • Memory Head
  • Asriel (on his kid form)

This would also change the SOULs scaling, making the Human SOUL 213104.7981 Tons / 213.1 Kilotons, and thus Photoshop Flowey will become 1278.6 Kilotons or 1.28 Megatons (Low 7-B), as Ruins/Snowdin monsters will also become generally 8-B.


Conclusion:
Every character whose stats are between 4 and 17 is going to become City-Block Level Tier 8-B too

Credits to StrymULTRA for helping me
 
Last edited:
Ok so I kinda of disagree here, as even the durability justification for the dummy is super sus:

City Block level (Despite their physical body being fragile, they are able to reform it easily as their true form is intangible and immune to non-magical harm. Even this only hurts it and doesn't kill it)

We see Mad Dummy's body getting obliterated from Frisk when they get hit, and only reason they survive is due to their incorporeal state for their true form.

If anything this makes me want to just downgrade Dummy's dura to something like "Unknown, likely Wall level" the latter due to Mad Dummy not fully merging with the dummy's body, and the Dummy's body in itself is consistently having 0 DEF (1 and 2), hence why they get one shotted so easily during Genocide as well.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Ok so I kinda of disagree here, as even the durability justification for the dummy is super sus:

City Block level (Despite their physical body being fragile, they are able to reform it easily as their true form is intangible and immune to non-magical harm. Even this only hurts it and doesn't kill it)
Click to expand...
I think this is a straight up anti-feat lol
 
Bernkastelll said:
I think this is a straight up anti-feat lol
Click to expand...
Not really? Its DEF isn't even a number, just "YES", and I think the reason is obvious, because of it being incapable of being normally harmed from Frisk.

ALTHOUGH, its magic self does indeed tank its own attacks, now that I think about it. On addition to that, Jerry can accompany Ice Cap and Snowdrake in fights, with Frisk both tanking their attacks and harming Jerry, who has 30 DEF.

This scaling is more solid than I thought ngl.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Ok so I kinda of disagree here, as even the durability justification for the dummy is super sus:

City Block level (Despite their physical body being fragile, they are able to reform it easily as their true form is intangible and immune to non-magical harm. Even this only hurts it and doesn't kill it)

We see Mad Dummy's body getting obliterated from Frisk when they get hit, and only reason they survive is due to their incorporeal state for their true form.

If anything this makes me want to just downgrade Dummy's dura to something like "Unknown, likely Wall level" the latter due to Mad Dummy not fully merging with the dummy's body, and the Dummy's body in itself is consistently having 0 DEF (1 and 2), hence why they get one shotted so easily during Genocide as well.
Click to expand...
I mean, Frisk would obliterate him if it wasn't because of the incorporeal state for their true form, but think about it. At that time Frisk had a Tier 8-B Attack potency, so he could still be 8-B but lower.
Also, Mad Dummy can survive getting damaged from his attacks and he has 30 ATK. So...
Can't we say that Mad Dummy has an 8-B durability towards magic attacks and an Unknown/Wall Level to physical attacks?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Not really? Its DEF isn't even a number, just "YES", and I think the reason is obvious, because of it being incapable of being normally harmed from Frisk.

ALTHOUGH, its magic self does indeed tank its own attacks, now that I think about it. On addition to that, Jerry can accompany Ice Cap and Snowdrake in fights, with Frisk both tanking their attacks and harming Jerry, who has 30 DEF.

This scaling is more solid than I thought ngl.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing while replying to your first reply
 
Monsters_fight said:
Also, Mad Dummy can survive getting damaged from his attacks and he has 30 ATK. So...
Click to expand...
I say that in the comment above, MB.

I noticed also other lower values for monsters who can take more than one hit before going down (as even going down after being taking a single hit is where I'd draw a line tbh):
  1. Greater Dog (ATK 15 and DEF 8), unlike other Snowdin monsters, can take multiple blows from Frisk.
  2. Gyftrot (ATK 16 and DEF 8) can also do the same.
  3. The Dogi (each with 15 ATK and 5 DEF) also tanking well your attacks.
AKA I'd argue that values between 5 and 16 should get a "At most 8-B" rating, due to these monsters being yes, weaker than 17 and up, but not enough to be a whole different tier.

This would also change the SOULs scaling, making the Human SOUL 213104.7981 Tons / 213.1 Kilotons, and thus Photoshop Flowey will become 1278.6 Kilotons or 1.28 Megatons (Low 7-B), as Ruins/Snowdin monsters will also become generally 8-B (although they'll be mostly glass cannons).
 
StrymULTRA said:
I say that in the comment above, MB.

I noticed also other lower values for monsters who can take more than one hit before going down (as even going down after being taking a single hit is where I'd draw a line tbh):
  1. Greater Dog (ATK 15 and DEF 8), unlike other Snowdin monsters, can take multiple blows from Frisk.
  2. Gyftrot (ATK 16 and DEF 8) can also do the same.
  3. The Dogi (each with 15 ATK and 5 DEF) also tanking well you attacks.
AKA I'd argue that values between 5 and 16 should get a "At most 8-B" rating, due to these monsters being yes, weaker than 17 and up, but not enough to be a whole different tier.

This would also change the SOULs scaling, making the Human SOUL 213104.7981 Tons / 213.1 Kilotons, and thus Photoshop Flowey will become 1278.6 Kilotons or 1.28 Megatons (or Low 7-B), as Ruins/Snowdin monsters will also become generally 8-B (although they'll be mostly glass cannons).
Click to expand...
Ok. So:
Moldsmall, Vegetoid, Whimsun, Loox, Vegetoid, Migosp, All Snowdin Enemies (except Jerry), Napstablock, Endogeny, and Memory Head should be At least Wall Level, at most City-Block Level
 
Wait a minute, I just realized something.
Froggit has 4 ATK, but he is still able to fight alongside Whimsun who has 5 ATK and should be at most 8-B. (In the same way Aaron 24 ATK is able to fight alongside Woshua who has 18 ATK)
So Froggit should be at most 8-B too
 
Asriel in his kid form should also become just "Likely 8-B" by the way.

I think that given his status of still being a Boss Monster, him being 9-B feels an absurd downplay, he'd be definitely above stuff like Papyrus or Waterfall monsters.
 
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