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Undead Ban vs Immortal Sealer (Ban vs Momo Momozono)

Iapitus The Impaler said:
That is a lie. I have told you over and over. Just being miss informed doesn't cut it any more. He pulled it out against one of the commandments as his opening. If he goes for the wrong choice then rip him, but he has a win condition so it isnt a stomp
Click to expand...
He pulled it

1 out of 10 times

against an opponent he knew could have easilly hax him to death

also if you think that he would have better chances with bloodlust nn, then why don't you just bloodlust him ?
 
Simple, bloodlusting him makes it less thematic. Also we would just have another inconclusive quick draw which has been seen a million times. Momo's thing is taking out immortals who have become confident due to their immortality or broken abilities. Figured why not run her specialized move set against some foes outside her verse

Again, if he makes the wrong choice for what he goes for then it's his funeral.
 
Making Ban bloodlusted doesn't make the match less "immortal vs immortal Slayer" in any way, so not giving him the ability to have a fair chance seems more spite to me

Also you can't do that because she stomps said immortal beings

I'm telling you, Ban without bloodlust has next to no chances of winning, as he won't just no sign on a random opponent
 
She isn't just an immortal slayer. She is essentially an answer to every immortal who becomes too confident over their abilities. She takes out people who have broken powers, and immortality, and because of that feel no consequence. That is what Ban is. People like Ajimu, Hanten, Kumagawa, Shiranui, and Medaka are all people who could probably destroy her if went for their win condition. But they don't, and that is why she wins

She doesn't stomp them. That's the point. Ajimu borderline infinite ways to kill her. Hanten can create any number of ways to end her. Kumagawa has All Fiction, and other ways to win, but because he knew her he was relaxed. Medaka has 20+ ways to take her out but does not go for them. Etc. Etc.

He has just as much a chance of winning as she does if he took it seriously. He is too confident, and only takes it seriously once he knows his opponent can take him own, like almost anyone would be. But he doesn't take it seriously, and thus damns himself. Part of what she does is abuse people's character
 
Aka you have made this match just to give Momo a win

Pretty spiteful if you ask me

Also where are you getting that zero sign is istantaneus ?

He has to say the ability's name for it to active, like most other nanatsu abilities, so it's not fast enough to counter sealing
 
I made it as to be thematic. He may be the archetype she is meant to destroy, but I plan to see how she fairs as she moves of the chain.

No more spiteful then using Sans for what he was made, which is taking out higher tier characters with hax and speed. I have used Momo exactly as she was meant for. Using her against someone like Oudo who could wipe her mind with a thought and bring her to her knees misses the point of what she was made

He doesn't have to say it, just like he doesn't have to say any of the other abilities name to use them. He chooses to in the anime, but in the manga the name is only displayed after he already used it and he is silent. Standard shonen fair.
 
The only way for Ban to win is to use a move that's very OoC from him to use right off the bat and he has to also decide to silent casting,which is also not a likely thing he will do.

On top of all of that he only has 50% chance to win even if he goes for that

on top of all i don't think Zero Sign would even save Ban, as it's just invisibility, and doesn't stop him from getting sealed.

also one having a minuscule chance of winning doesn't make a battle fair.

a regular human with a poison coated knife vs Bruce Lee is still a stomp. Even if the former could win if he got a hit in, but dou to sheer skill gap it has approsimaly 0 chances to actually do it
 
Not here for debate

but Momo 's sealing work only if she know the name of her opponent according to the side note of Medaka Box's volume.
 
The situation that he has used it in, is exactly the kind of person Momo is. Minus the bistandsers. In the manga he favours silent casting for Zero sign. Were he either bloodlusted or given intel, he would go for exactly this. Thus, a 50/50 chance, and not a stomp

Yes, which would be the same for Momo, and therefore fair

It likely would, all stealth aside, it may also cut down on receptability. She either would not or not be able to use her style of she could not percieve her target.

What you call fair does not matter, but it is not a stomp. The only thing making it unfair is Ban's character

I could see a poison knife being a stomp simply due to Bruce essentially having the perfect moves to hard counter it. However, that is a false equivalence. A more apt comparison would be Bruce Lee vs A Man with a Gun that simply doesn't know who Bruce Lee is and is over confident so he would rely on his martial arts, not knowing that the gun is his only real way to win
 
The Causality said:
Not here for debate

but Momo 's sealing work only if she know the name of her opponent according to the side note of Medaka Box's volume.
Click to expand...
You got scans of that? First I've heard of it. I'll expand on the OP just to be sure its thematic. If this is true that may cause a plot hole
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
The situation that he has used it in, is exactly the kind of person Momo is. Minus the bistandsers. In the manga he favours silent casting for Zero sign. Were he either bloodlusted or given intel, he would go for exactly this. Thus, a 50/50 chance, and not a stomp
Click to expand...
except Ban doesn't have neither intel or bloodlust here
 
Yes. That is correct. Doesn't mean it is a stomp just cuz he doesn't choose to use them. He has win conditions, but he oesn't use them. Hence it is not a stomp
 
IDK, the currents english chapters only count the chapters itself and not the side note of the volume

the only i've saw in english is the Kumagawa's all fiction description which is in his profile
 
You know how Medaka gets with word play, so I would like to find an english version before I draw any conclusions. I am tied up with a bunch of other projects right now, but if you find an english version lmk
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Yes. That is correct. Doesn't mean it is a stomp just cuz he doesn't. He has win conditions, but he oesn't use them. Hence it is not a stomp
Click to expand...
You literally said he can only win if he has either of those
 
He has win conditions. Him not using them immediately in character does not negate that fact. Therefore it is not a stomp.

That's how stomps work. If he took this fight seriously, it would be 50/50. It is not a stomp. The probability of him. Do both sides have win conditions that are within their domain of control? Yes. So it isn't a stomp. Him not choosing them does not negate that they are viable win conditions. The probability that he would choose them is irrelevent. Nothing else matters towards it being a stomp.
 
THAT'S STUPID

You can't just not take the personality of the fighter in to account in a fight

if one character always starts with an ista kill, while the other never does then there's no scenario where the second wins

no winning scenarions = stomp
 
THATS. NOT. HOW. IT. WORKS.

You take the personality into account, but not when determining win conditions. Also, that is a lie again. He does start when he takes the target seriously. We have been over this.

It does not matter what you think is stupid, because that is policy. Get over it. Go start a thread and get all the Admins to agree to change the entire policy of the wiki and gets VS matches removed from hundreds of thousands of profiles. Until then, he has win conditions that we won't use without intel. Link me the thread when it gets made. Until you get policy changed, this ain't a stomp
 
I am trying to be civil. But he isn't getting it. I have corrected him over and over that it is in character when he takes the target seriously, but he doesn't seem to register. It has reached the point of lying. I'm getting a ******* migraine from this
 
>You can't just not take the personality of the fighter in to account in a fight

But that's exactly what we're doing when we argue that Ban doesn't insta heart steal in-character.
 
Nice numbers, where did you get them?

>He pulled it 1 out of 10 times

Because this makes me think that Ban's prone to steal hearts. He did that to the Commandments and against the Red Demon in his flashback.
 
@Iapitus An extremely OoC chracter winning condiction is NOT a possible winning condiction

as no matter what he won't pull it

if the winning sceneratio is so unlikely that the opponent is more likely to get an heart attack and die then battle is a clearly stomp
 
The funny thing is that Momo is 8-B while Ban is 7-B up to High 7-A. And she has zero ways to resurrect or regenerate.

So this is less of a stomp now as Ban could just tap her shoulder and vaporize her.
 
Overlord775 said:
@Iapitus
An extremely OoC chracter winning condiction is NOT a possible winning condiction

as no matter what he won't pull it

if the winning sceneratio is so unlikely that the opponent is more likely to get an heart attack and die then battle is a clearly stomp
Click to expand...
So you are ignoring what I said. An extremely OoC win condition is a win condition. Just not one they would use. That stops it from being a stomp

That is beside the point anyway because he does pull it.

But it's not the that extreme. He has pulled on it before. Not that it matters, because it wouldn't be a stomp anyway
 
Anyways, if you disagree with this being a stomp because Ban never goes for his win conditions, then go make the policy change. Otherwise him not going for his win conditions doesnt make this a stomp.
 
Overlord775 said:
Not really, all she needs to do is think which is >>> action, so the AP doesn't matter at all
Click to expand...
Its not necesarilly thought based, but it is instantaneous. But that's fine, since his Zero Sign is instant and he heart steals from there, which is a valid win con
 
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