'Umr at-Tawil vs the Presence

[Aeyu]

That doesn't mean 1-A matches *can't* be added, it just means they usually won't be. (As usually, they don't wind up being civil, or it's impossible to gauge the power between the two. In this case, it's neither.)

And the stomp part is debatable.

 

[Warren_Valion]

That doesn't mean 1-A matches *can't* be added, it just means they usually won't be. (As usually, they don't wind up being civil, or it's impossible to gauge the power between the two. In this case, it's neither.)
And the stomp part is debatable.

Do you think this isn't a stomp?

'Umr at-Tawil is extremely top tier 1-A, while The Presence has no feats putting him close to such a level, he might be, but it's sort of a stretch to think that he is.

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Awe that sucks that this can't be added. Maaaaan :/ Oh well... There are Tier 1A matches on here though even if some of them were wiped away before correct?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Wait so we can't add any 1-A matchs?

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

We can though. Nyarlathotep curbstomped/beat Oblivion from Marvel and it was agreed upon nicely

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yeah. I thought this was a solid match tbh. I don't really see it as a stomp.

As a seperate question, don't Lucifer and by extension the presence transcend the concept of infinity? If this is the case, then the levels of being infinitely supperior like the outer gods of the mythos should be irrelevent if not outright inferior to them. I don't know much about DC, but a friend mentioned the transcending infinity thing off hand

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Yeah. I thought this was a solid match tbh. I don't really see it as a stomp.
As a seperate question, don't Lucifer and by extension the presence transcend the concept of infinity? If this is the case, then the levels of being infinitely supperior like the outer gods of the mythos should be irrelevent if not outright inferior to them. I don't know much about DC, but a friend mentioned the transcending infinity thing off hand

I mean you could just by name sake and what's implied but the thing is the word 'infinite' and 'endless' are tossed around a lot these days without even considering on what it means. Dragon Ball has a habit of doing that when describing characters and so do comics. And by extension the fans who can wank the series.

Having read both Sandman and parts of Lucifer, Lucifer is not omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He's EXTREMELY powerful even within the DC Universe and many mainstream people think he was the 2nd most powerful character at the time (when entities like the Writer or Overvoid weren't big at the time) but he's not Omnipotent or Infinite. I mean even concept wise if he has all that superior power from his creator/father the presense then it's not enough to make him unbeatable. Nigh-Unbeatable to us but in the Lucifer story he does end up winning and losing several times throughout the story as well as trying to uncover mysteries like where God went.

Now I should be asking what your friend meant though by being infinitely superior or trascending infinity. What part of Lucifer or the Presense is supposed to indicate that? Because even the Presense seems to acknowledge that it had limits, even though some people say he was either lying or that the 'story was non-canon bleh'.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

and I don't mean infinity in the sense of the lower infinities that bind dimensiona beings. I mean the abstract of infinity, but not in the boundless sense

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

and I don't mean infinity in the sense of the lower infinities that bind dimensiona beings. I mean the abstract of infinity, but not in the boundless sense

How so? I'm an idiot so what would that mean for both Presense and Lucifer? The Abstract Infinity. So you're implying that they trasncend all concepts much like many of the Outer Gods do and thus it should be more of a stalemate then a stomp or clear cut match?

Cause if that's the case well the realities of DC and the Cthulhu Mythos operate differently but agian I apologies that I might be interpreting it wrong.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

lol I guess it lagged on posting my second comment. That wasn't supposed to be my reply, it was supposed to be a clarification on the first but for some reason got posted later

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I mean you could just by name sake and what's implied but the thing is the word 'infinite' and 'endless' are tossed around a lot these days without even considering on what it means. Dragon Ball has a habit of doing that when describing characters and so do comics. And by extension the fans who can wank the series.
Having read both Sandman and parts of Lucifer, Lucifer is not omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He's EXTREMELY powerful even within the DC Universe and many mainstream people think he was the 2nd most powerful character at the time (when entities like the Writer or Overvoid weren't big at the time) but he's not Omnipotent or Infinite. I mean even concept wise if he has all that superior power from his creator/father the presense then it's not enough to make him unbeatable. Nigh-Unbeatable to us but in the Lucifer story he does end up winning and losing several times throughout the story as well as trying to uncover mysteries like where God went.

Now I should be asking what your friend meant though by being infinitely superior or trascending infinity. What part of Lucifer or the Presense is supposed to indicate that? Because evne the Presense seems to acknowledge that it had limits, even though some people say he was either lying or that the 'story was non-canon bleh'.

yeah, but I'm not using it in that sense.

Not really claiming he is. 1st off, all outerversals are infinite on some level, or atleast transinfinite. Not really claiming he is unbeatable or anything close

He wasn't meaning infinite in the sense of omnipotence or anything. He was refering to it like levels of infinity. Like you know the idea that the difference in 1-A beings can be greater then the difference between 10-C and 1-B right? it came up cuz we were talking about Hypnos from the Mythos. I was saying that Hypnos should be several levels of infinite above Lucifer but he replied by saying that he transcends that kind of infinity. I should also point out that infinite =/= without limits.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

How so? I'm an idiot so what would that mean for both Presense and Lucifer? The Abstract Infinity. So you're implying that they trasncend all concepts much like many of the Outer Gods do and thus it should be more of a stalemate then a stomp or clear cut match?
Cause if that's the case well the realities of DC and the Cthulhu Mythos operate differently but agian I apologies that I might be interpreting it wrong.

I wasn't really going for all concepts. I don't see where you got that from. Of course they transcend concepts like the endless but I wasn't implying omnilock or anything

Yeah maybe I didn't convey myself well.

 

[Dreaming_Serpent]

Naw Naw it's cool i'm still getting used to these ideas and yes I do understand when you're talking about differences between 10-Cs and 1-Bs. I think I get what you mean, not so sure about you're friend but maybe he has more insight.

We are dealing with two VERY different kinds of franchises though so misunderstandings and inconveniences are bound to occur. The problem is that with Comic Books when they write themselves into a corner they have to think of silly ways to raise the stakes such as Living Tribunal being killed again.

While the Presense dissapearing isn't something that breaks DC, it calls into question how valid certain claims are and shatters the idea of what's supposed to be all-powerful and what isn't.

The Cthulhu Mythos has some of this too although the benefit to this series and the way it was written by multiple writers is that a wide array of these Cosmic/Eldritch Abominations weren't designed to be an escapist fantasy. They were design to be a horror meant to fill you with dread that couldn't be defeated.

Something that is quite the opposite of the majority of fiction included on this site for sure.

 

[Aeyu]

Numbers aren't really applicable in these higher realms of 1-A, even abstract representations like infinity (All 1-A's to some lesser or greater degree transcend infinity, and even High 1-B's do at the toppest levels) The only way to really calculate the possibilities of each outerversal being is to determine what realms they can afffect based off of scaling. I refer to my sorta-chart above where it's shown that beings behind the first Gate transcend beings that transcend all concepts that transcend beings that likely transcend all concepts. Then, that whole "level," of existence and the one above it are transcended by beings which transcend beings that transcend even more beings to an incalculable level (which is indeterminately more powerful than anything from behind the First Gate, with the First Gate's beings being indeterminately more powerful than outerversals from before the Gate) and his avatar might be equal or relative to those.

Meanwhile, Lucifer transcends...maybe the Source or the Word? The parents of the Endless? And then Presence is one level above that. So even equalized it's still in Mythos' favor for complexity. Being outerversal doesn't mean as much in CM as it does in DC.

 

[Aeyu]

This all being said, some of the later Gods should be added on here in a separate verse (Such an idea has had a favorable reaction in the past) although they would doubtlessly be separate than the H.P. Lovecraft gods.

 

[ProspectX]

If it's concluded, then it should be requested.

And Yog-soth is clearly the overwhelming contendent.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Don't remove threads, it makes them harder to find. Get an admin to close them.

Also, I don't think this can be added. It seems like a stomp to me

 

[ProspectX]

Already added.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Well ok then