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Also the Hogyoku made Wonderweiss not Yama so there's that too.
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Ulquiorra's Resurrección Key [Bleach]
- Thread starter Damage3245
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Out of curiosity, why are we rating monke form as Country rather than Small Country+? Are we just upscaling since its really close to being Baseline Country or did I miss something?
Edit: Also some more stuff for Shunsui not even downscaling from Yama, Shunsui = Jushiro <<< base Wonderweiss <<< R1 Wonderweiss <<< hands Yama < base Aizen < Shikai Yama.
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- #123
@AnonymousBlank; sorry, I think I messed up my figures somewhere earlier and I got a figure above baseline Country level somehow.
But thanks for pointing that out, that should be Small Country level+.
But thanks for pointing that out, that should be Small Country level+.
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How did you reach this conclusion? Wonderweiss just surprised Jushiro unless you believe base Wonderweiss is able to blitz one of the strongest Captains from hundreds of meters away? And we literally see Mashiro ragdoll Wonderweiss a few chapters later, Mashiro is quite honestly fodder.
Kensei also fights base Wonderweiss equally iirc without even using his mask, though it seems like Kubo completely forgot about their fight since we're never shown the outcome. It's possible Wonderweiss used his Resurreccion to beat Kensei since when we see him next he's already in the form behind Yama.
Neither of them even come close to Shunsui and Jushiro.
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Reiatsu is irrelevant here, just because wonderweiss sealed Yama's shikai doesn't mean wonderweiss > Shikai Yama, we still see Yama in base tanking his attacks easily and destroying him.
Still Funny thing how you tried to hide the fact that Yama defeated him with the hax thing but you linked the sealing to the Reiatsu levels
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Yes, I do. Why? Because he did get blitzed and one shot right there on panel. Everyone turned to face Wonderweiss and Hooleer when they arrived and Wonderweiss still blitzed everyone and one shot Jushiro while Shunsui was closer to Jushiro and still only reacted after it already happened. Literally no one could react to him. He also screamed and broke the same ice that sealed Harribel who Shunsui and Jushiro can't even tell is weaker than the other two. Kid is literally built different.
Why is Mashiro fodder? She was already captain level back in TBTP like all of the Visoreds, was already blitzing and one shotting Captains, has been training for a hundred years and has her Mask on top of that. Fondling base Wonderweiss is also her only feat besides one shotting Hooleer who sneezed and broke through Yama's fire so it ain't even an outlier.
Kensei has no anti-feats? He clapped Hollow Ichigo's cheeks during Visored training, bodied some Gillian and then bullied Wonderweiss into using Res before he lost off screen. Base Wonderweiss isn't even on his and Mashiro's level and is considered a waste of energy.
That's an opinion, not what we see, are told or what happens. Literally nothing goes against Kensei and Mashiro being > Shunsui and Jushiro in FKT.
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Even Wonderweiss's profile notes he caught Jushiro by surprise, because it makes absolutely zero sense otherwise given base Wonderweiss's only other feats.
You don't need to include scans, I've read the manga.
Ahh you're using the "no contradictions" argument to argue Mashiro who is quite clearly fodder, isn't fodder.
Being called "Captain-Class" isn't new for a lieutenant, even people like Tetsuzaemon have been called "Captain-Class", not to mention that it doesn't actually mean anything, their strength varies greatly.
"Blitzing and one shotting Captains", so we're just going to ignore the fact that Lisa not only saw Mashiro attack, but was able to warn Rojuro before it connected?
Regardless, you're just using another example of a character being blind sided or caught off guard to justify your already faulty argument, Rojuro wasn't facing Mashiro and was focused on Kensei, you should really include the entire sequence of events instead of one out of context page.
I guess Lisa >>> Rojuro as well now?
How strong was this Ichigo? Every single Visored went up against him and survived without any noticeable injuries, he's almost as featless as Kensei is.
Also isn't it contradictory how you say Base Wonderweiss wasn't on their level but then we have Kensei immediately decide to use his Bankai against him?
Sure, if you abandon all logic and take everything at face value, you said Base Wonderweiss >>> Jushiro/Shunsui, and we have Base Kensei throwing Base Wonderweiss aside like garbage and Masked Mashiro doing the same, it's hilarious to me how you actually think it makes sense for Kensei and Mashiro to be >>> Shunsui and Jushiro.
Instead of just accepting the fact that Wonderweiss caught Jushiro by surprise, let's instead do a bunch of mental gymnastics to put two almost completely featless characters far above two of the stated strongest Captains in history.
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- #129
This is what we'd put for Yammy's first form:
Attack Potency: At least Small Country level (Stated multiple times in the Manga, Novel and Databook that he is above Ulquiorra, Nnoitra and Grimmjow. His normal Cero is an order of magnitude smaller than his Cero Oscuras), Country level with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong)
Striking Strength: At least Small Country Class
Durability: At least Small Country level
Since Ichigo, Byakuya and Kenpachi are all recieving their justifications from Yammy himself, it doesn't make any sense to put his durability feats from them in his justifications. This was some circular scaling that I wanted to address in a CRT at some point, so clearing it up here.
For his second form:
Attack Potency: Small Country level+ (Stated in a Databook that Yammy's 2nd form doubles his powers), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (His Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than his normal Cero)
Striking Strength: Small Country Class+
Durability: Small Country level+
Starrk becomes this:
Attack Potency: Small Country level (His normal Cero is an order of magnitude lower than his Cero Oscuras), Country level with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong)
Striking Strength: Small Country Class
Durability: Small Country level
As for Shunsui and Ukitake, I propose that we combine their Soul Society arc and Fake Karakura Town arc keys into a single "Pre-Timeskip" key and scale them both to Starrk. It seems people are in favor of that as a solution for now until later profiles get sorted out.
Everyone fine with this?
Attack Potency: At least Small Country level (Stated multiple times in the Manga, Novel and Databook that he is above Ulquiorra, Nnoitra and Grimmjow. His normal Cero is an order of magnitude smaller than his Cero Oscuras), Country level with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong)
Striking Strength: At least Small Country Class
Durability: At least Small Country level
Since Ichigo, Byakuya and Kenpachi are all recieving their justifications from Yammy himself, it doesn't make any sense to put his durability feats from them in his justifications. This was some circular scaling that I wanted to address in a CRT at some point, so clearing it up here.
For his second form:
Attack Potency: Small Country level+ (Stated in a Databook that Yammy's 2nd form doubles his powers), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (His Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than his normal Cero)
Striking Strength: Small Country Class+
Durability: Small Country level+
Starrk becomes this:
Attack Potency: Small Country level (His normal Cero is an order of magnitude lower than his Cero Oscuras), Country level with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong)
Striking Strength: Small Country Class
Durability: Small Country level
As for Shunsui and Ukitake, I propose that we combine their Soul Society arc and Fake Karakura Town arc keys into a single "Pre-Timeskip" key and scale them both to Starrk. It seems people are in favor of that as a solution for now until later profiles get sorted out.
Everyone fine with this?
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I am fine with this
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I explained why Yammy's dura should be higher than his AP already.
Bankai directly scales to Dino Yammy's base attacks so Yammy's dura has to be x5 higher for tanking the Mask GT.
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- #133
A Bala is much weaker than a Cero. I don't think that'd be enough by itself to boost him higher.
As for the Bala scaling to Yammy's striking strength. We'd have to have a solid figure for his striking strength for that to be relevant.
As for the Bala scaling to Yammy's striking strength. We'd have to have a solid figure for his striking strength for that to be relevant.
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Yammy can harm Kenpachi with his strikes.
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- Thread starter
- #135
Then we run into pretty bad circular scaling chain.
I'd like to apply my suggestions for the remaining Espada tomorrow as they are, and we can revisit it when we do a more in-depth evaluation of the scaling.
I'd like to apply my suggestions for the remaining Espada tomorrow as they are, and we can revisit it when we do a more in-depth evaluation of the scaling.
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Sure, thats fine.
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So Wonderweiss have the power to cancel and sealed a reiatsu nuke. Therefore he would scale to Yamamoto and above Aizen.
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He negated and contained the reiatsu levels sealed within his own body. Yamamoto's hax Sōkotsu (双骨, Double Bone) is a Hakuda technique according to the datebook that kills the opponent in one blow. If Yamamoto's reiatsu was strong he would had canceled Wonderweiss sealing punny power. The fact that he couldn't means Wonderweiss was that strong.
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- #139
No. Wonderweiss didn't use a raw AP advantage here.
I don't know why you're trying to say that Wonderweiss scales above Yama and Aizen when Yama fodderized him.
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If you say so, Wonderweiss can now negate and sealed a Kamehameha wave from Universal level+ Goku because is hax and AP has nothing to do with it. Since his power is energy absorption he won't blow up since he has no limits. Thanks Matt.
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- #141
No, Wonderweiss cannot seal a Kamehameha wave from Goku.
That's not what his ability is.
Who is Matt?
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HIs ability was to sealed Yamamoto's reiatsu. His level of power. Energy equalization and your permission grands him the ability to sealed that because you said he had no limit.
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Is there going to be another thread for changing the ratings of those who scale to the Espada (like Byakuya and Kenpachi) or can that be done here?
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- #144
I'm working through the profiles now.
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- #145
Can you kindly stop derailing the thread?
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again, Its funny how u are applying the Reiatsu stuff on one side. Now you will say Yama can destroy hogyoku Aizen with that hax right?
No one has claimed that Wonderweiss can seal any energy type attack, read the manga again and look what Aizen has explained about him
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Okay, nice.
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- #149
Still applying changes. I'll leave an update post here later when they're done.
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The ability to seal Yamamto's flames. What are Yamamoto's flames? Reiatsu. "Any energy type" is irrelevant under energy equalization.
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- #151
That statement is only for his Bankai. His Reiatsu gives off the appearance of flames which Haschwalth comments on.
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The fire is condensed to the edge of his sword. The sun cloak is just his reiatsu being crazy hot. Iirc when he used his Shikai back in SS, his reiatsu looked like flames.
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At least someone gets it. His flames are his Reiatsu.
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Why is post resurrection Ichigo only low 6B with his mask when he also cut Aizen? Also I thought it was decided his bankai would be scaling to low 6B via fighting Yammy cutting his balas in half
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My bad, I only updated his ratings according to his current justifications. We can revise that key for Ichigo soon.
But the Low 6-B figure for Yammy would be for his base Cero. A Bala would be weaker than that. So just cutting through one of those wouldn't necessarily make Bankai Ichigo Low 6-B.
I'll update Shunsui & Ukitake soon, and then do a look back over who else needs changing.
I've got a few minor scaling issues / suggestions for some Sternritter characters too, but that probably doesn't belong on this thread.
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Ahh ok my bad! But Ichigo still easily blocked a punch from him so he at least get a likely I think. And currently his half power bankai is scaling to 500+ gigatons so full power would still be low 6B for just his bankai.
also I think there could actually be justification for Ulquiorra to be flat out 6B and I apologize for just bringing it up now.. post final Grimmjow hollowfied Ichigo is Low 6B but R1 Ulquiorra straight up blocked his Getsuga with his reiatsu alone, or was it his wing? Either way he was far above that Ichigo
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It was his wing, but that'd still just be durability. And probably not worth upscaling.
EDIT: If anyone has any minor suggestions regarding the Sternritter scaling, send me a PM. I have a few notes already I've drawn up but this isn't the thread to discuss them on.
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Yeah not worth arguing over something like that. What do you think about the first part of my post?
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How about this?
Attack Potency: At least Island level (Stronger than before), Small Country level with Bankai (Blocked strikes from Resurrección Yammy and shattered one of his Balas while at roughly half power), Country level with Hollowfication (Injured a Resurrección Yammy while at roughly half power. At full power he injured Aizen Sosuke with a surprise attack)
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