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Ulquiorra's Resurrección Key [Bleach]

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YukaSama4 said:
oh sorry about that then, a question, Do you think base Aizen is above shikai yama? because honestly that what we are going for if we scaled Starrk to Yama, unless you will make a new key for Yama, idk.
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Aizen by self admission was like "I'd probably lose 1v1 against [Shikai Yama]" and made Wonderweiss so he wouldn't have to fight his Shikai. We aren't scaling Starrk to Yama lol
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Aizen by self admission was like "I'd probably lose 1v1 against [Shikai Yama]" and made Wonderweiss so he wouldn't have to fight his Shikai. We aren't scaling Starrk to Yama lol
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I thought u guys want to scale Shunsui to Yama, then scale Starrk to Shunsui? If no then ignore my strawman lol
 
YukaSama4 said:
I thought u guys want to scale Shunsui to Yama, then scale Starrk to Shunsui? If no then ignore my strawman lol
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Not directly scale, more so downscale.

Nobody is saying Shunsui or Jushiro are equal to Shikai Yama, but I'm arguing they're comparable enough to have the same tier*.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Relative but not equal, you can be in or around the same tier as someone and still get shit on by them.
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Fine then, when u said relative firstly I thought u mean they are all close, which doesnt make sense but if u mean just one the same tier its different.

Also, I want u to explain this, we are going to scale them to Yama because they werent fodderized by him right?
Purgy said:
they're not so far beneath Yamamoto that he can fodderize them.
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this, but Shunsui was fodderized by Aizen who is weaker than Yama, So Yama can fodderize Shunsui
Arc7Kuroi said:
Maybe scale them to half of Yama's value or give them the "at most" rating.
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anyways, Im fine with this option
 
As for Yammy, I believe he should be at:

First form:

Attack Potency: At least Small Country level (Stated multiple times in the Manga, Novel and Databook that he is above Ulquiorra, Nnoitra and Grimmjow. His normal Cero is an order of magnitude smaller than his Cero Oscuras), Country level with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong)

Second form:

Attack Potency: Country level (Stated in a Databook that Yammy's 2nd form doubles his powers), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (His Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than his normal Cero)

And Starrk I would rate as this:

Attack Potency: Small Country level (His normal Cero is an order of magnitude lower than his Cero Oscuras), Country level with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong)
 
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YukaSama4 said:
Fine then, when u said relative firstly I thought u mean they are all close, which doesnt make sense but if u mean just one the same tier its different.

Also, I want u to explain this, we are going to scale them to Yama because they werent fodderized by him right?

this, but Shunsui was fodderized by Aizen who is weaker than Yama, So Yama can fodderize Shunsui

anyways, Im fine with this option
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Regarding Shunsui being one shot, that was post KS shenanigans and Shunsui let his emotions get the better of him, so Aizen took advantage of him iirc.
 
For this whole Yamma/Shunsui&Ukitake thing, in CFYOW 3 it's stated that Tokinada, who was equal in Reiatsu to EoS Byakuya and Yoruichi, was a small fry compared to Shikai Yama. Shunsui was also relative to Tokinada IIRC.

Damage's post seems fine.
 
Ovy7 said:
For this whole Yamma/Shunsui&Ukitake thing, in CFYOW 3 it's stated that Tokinada, who was equal in Reiatsu to EoS Byakuya and Yoruichi, was a small fry compared to Shikai Yama. Shunsui was also relative to Tokinada IIRC.

Damage's post seems fine.
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True I forgot bout that, Shikai Yama might need some more work seeing how the novel implies he's > EoS Byakuya. I'll just leave this with Damage's suggestion then, a larger revision more arc by arc might be necessary in the future. But this isn't the thread for it.
 
In that case, I don't mind Damage's proposal.

Though whenever Shikai Yama becomes High 6-B/6-A, then we'll talk about Shunsui downscaling to 6-B.
 
Yeah, I'm not ambitious enough to think that we can solve all issues and pieces of scaling a single thread. I want to do an analysis blog on the list of feats and statements we get out of the three novels too. Right now our justifications for novel keys / ratings is a bit subpar tbh, and we could benefit from having the statements in a blog to refer to.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
True I forgot bout that, Shikai Yama might need some more work seeing how the novel implies he's > EoS Byakuya. I'll just leave this with Damage's suggestion then, a larger revision more arc by arc might be necessary in the future. But this isn't the thread for it.
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Base Aizen is the same case as Yama IIRC (tho they were already somewhat relative even before CFYOW).
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
True I forgot bout that, Shikai Yama might need some more work seeing how the novel implies he's > EoS Byakuya. I'll just leave this with Damage's suggestion then, a larger revision more arc by arc might be necessary in the future. But this isn't the thread for it.
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Wait novel implied Shikai Yamamato > EoS Bankai Byakuya ?!
 
Agreed, as grindy and labor intensive as it may be best to go over arc by arc and compile everything we have, gather our calcs, etc etc. I recently reread the series and grabbed scans for every character so I don't particularly mind taking the slow chug through it.
 
LightReinh12345 said:
I See He fought them in Bankai or Shikai?!?
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Iirc, he defeated Yoruichi and Shunsui together, and its stated that their Reiatsu combined is higher than him, which means he is stronger in 1v1, they couldnt break from his KS also, however all what I know is from fan translations, havent read the VIZ
 
Tsotso said:
Base Bazz-B could offset Shikai Yama's flames to some degree.
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Tbh that's one of the things I've found somewhat questionable in our extensive scaling chains. Yama was fairly casual as his dispatched three Sternritter at once, and it's not like Bazz-B clashed with him evenly, he only offset them enough for the Sternritter to survive with burns as opposed to dying outright.
 
Bazz offset Yama's flames in the same way Grimmjow offset Shinji's cero, not enough to be called equals but just vaguely relative.
 
Damage3245 said:
Tbh that's one of the things I've found somewhat questionable in our extensive scaling chains. Yama was fairly casual as his dispatched three Sternritter at once, and it's not like Bazz-B clashed with him evenly, he only offset them enough for the Sternritter to survive with burns as opposed to dying outright.
Click to expand...
It's impressive because Yama had absolutely no reason to hold back against or spare the three Sternritter like he did Harribel's Fracción.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Bazz offset Yama's flames in the same way Grimmjow offset Shinji's cero, not enough to be called equals but just vaguely relative.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he's definitely not equal considering he still took damage from the attack. I'd personally put him at around 1/3 or 1/4 as powerful as Shikai Yama.
 
Yamamoto’s bankai? It has a calf for 6A so I don’t think it’d change. Though I do think it could be a bit higher
 
YukaSama4 said:
tbh I dont think they should scale to Yama, unless we want to say that Aizen >> Shikai Yama which doesnt make any sense, Shunsui is far weaker than Aizen, far weaker than Tokinada the one who wasnt able to use RJ as Yama. And Aizen definitely isnt above Shikai Yama.
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But Aizen made an Arrancar that was able to sealed Yamamoto’s Shikai Reiatsu. Are you saying Aizen has less Reiatsu then the Arrancar he created? Yamamoto defeated it with a Hax Kido (Databook info). Don’t forget Yamamoto’s flames are his Reiatsu.
 
But Aizen made an Arrancar that was able to sealed Yamamoto’s Shikai Reiatsu. Are you saying Aizen has less Reiatsu then the Arrancar he created?
Click to expand...

That isn't a matter of Reiatsu amount. That's a matter of Wonderweiss having that unique ability which he sacrificed so much to attain.
 
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