Ulquiorra (Hogyoku) Existence Erasure Discussion Thread

[Rocker1189]

Heck it tells you what his eye does in your last link. "immense damage"and inflicts weaken. That is not EE at all.

 

[AppleLord]

Heck it tells you what his eye does in your last link. "Constant immense damage"and inflicts weaken. That is not EE at all.

Constant Immense damage to a soul. Erasing souls. Yamamoto's could do it with his reiatsu just like that was the difference here?

 

[Rocker1189]

Heck these two:

2

3

that you posted dont even say anything about EE.

One says he has nothing but his eyes.

And the other says his eyes reveal greed.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Are you arguing that it's not EE because he destroys it? All EE is destruction of some sort. Again, explain how a fate worse than death isn't EE when getting killed normally in bleach verse just sends you into the cycle.

 

[AppleLord]

And not the simple "erasing soul" type since they do that on a daily basics, therefore, the mention of EE is literal. They wouldn't hype something so basic that a wall level fodders could do.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Immense damage and erase aren't comparable at all.

Destroying a soul isn't EE either, or everyone in undertale would have it


EE is a Hax, any high enough tier with decent soul hax would have it by this logic

 

[Rocker1189]

Are you arguing that it's not EE because he destroys it? All EE is destruction of some sort. Again, explain how a fate worse than death isn't EE when getting killed normally in bleach verse just sends you into the cycle.

I am saying there is no evidence of EE. That is what I am saying. Or would everyone in Bleach get EE?

 

[Wokistan]

@Apple

What I'm saying is that scaling characters due to their stats in game is not something we do for games not called Undertale (stats are explicitly canon there, and even then there's been issues). If you want to make him moon level, find something that points to it being superior to yhwach.


@Rocker


Being described as erasure, being described as inflicting a worse state than death (soul destruction is thrown out the window because everyone in bleach does that), and turning stuff to nothingness. None of those are indicative of AP. Examples of verses that were denied EE while meeting these criteria?

 

[Wokistan]

You can't insist that EE can't translate to heavy damage in game. There still needs to be gameplay, cant just have him instantly kill everything. Using gameplay mechanics to argue won't really get far, unless they don't contradict anything else.

 

[Rocker1189]

Constant Immense damage to a soul. Erasing souls. Yamamoto's could do it with his reiatsu just like that was the difference here?

The difference is that you are sayign that by galancing at someone he erases their existenc and Yamamoto's has actual evidence of his EE where we see thing literally disappear upon him touching them.

 

[AppleLord]

I'll explain it in a nutshell, if you don't have verse knowledge you wouldn't understand.

What I am getting at is that is said to "erase" and the "AI" in the game are "souls". "Erase" + "souls" = Soul Erasure = Not reincarnating on the cycle of life in the verse. That's EE.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

>Destroying a soul isn't EE

The definition of EE

• Most characters have not the full range of the ability, for example only being able to erase a target's matter and energy, but not its mind, soul, concept, etc.

Ulq turn's things into nothingness with the power of his eyes. This qualifies as EE.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker


Being described as erasure, being described as inflicting a worse state than death (soul destruction is thrown out the window because everyone in bleach does that), and turning stuff to nothingness. None of those are indicative of AP. Examples of verses that were denied EE while meeting these criteria?

It has never been described as erasure once it has just been said to bring things to nothing (and literaly stated about its destructive power).

 

[AppleLord]

The difference is that you are sayign that by galancing at someone he erases their existenc and Yamamoto's has actual evidence of his EE where we see thing literally disappear upon him touching them.

He has a move in the gane where he attacks with his eyes. This is correct.

Is said here: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...25144350556160/Screenshot_20180727-185115.png

And shown in the gameplay above.

 

[Rocker1189]

>Destroying a soul isn't EE
The definition of EE

• Most characters have not the full range of the ability, for example only being able to erase a target's matter and energy, but not its mind, soul, concept, etc.

Ulq turn's things into nothingness with the power of his eyes. This qualifies as EE.

Yeah and we still have no actual evidence of him bringing things to nothingness with his eyes that is my issue. It literally just looks like a high power attack. That is not EE. That is just AP. And I did not say destroying a soul is not EE actually read what I am typing.

 

[Wokistan]

Bringing things to nothing is not something that happens with AP unless it is far, far higher than everything around it. Not the case when I assume other tier 5s exist in game. A nuke won't even bring a town to nothingness, most of the time. Also doesn't address the whole "I can do worse than just kill you" part of it.

 

[AppleLord]

>Destroying a soul isn't EE

The definition of EE

It's not in some verses. But there's mention on the manga that Quincy erase Hollows from Existence by erasing their souls. Same thing Ulquiorra does by destroying their souls they cannot reincarnate.

 

[Rocker1189]

Bringing things to nothing is not something that happens with AP unless it is far, far higher than everything around it. Not the case when I assume other tier 5s exist in game. A nuke won't even bring a town to nothingness, most of the time. Also doesn't address the whole "I can do worse than just kill you" part of it.

And I am saying there is no actual evidence of bringing things to nothingness that is the usual hyperbole used for a whole bunch of things. And the bringin to nothing ness seems to refer to his destructive power and nothing else. You can literally say that for example a tailbeast bomb would bring a town to nothingness. That is not EE though that is just vaporisation. The I can do worse than just kill you only makes me think of torture/ just beating the person up by being much more powerful than them.

 

[AppleLord]

Bringing things to nothing is not something that happens with AP unless it is far, far higher than everything around it. Not the case when I assume other tier 5s exist in game. A nuke won't even bring a town to nothingness, most of the time. Also doesn't address the whole "I can do worse than just kill you" part of it.

That's why I wrote this part in the OP: "The problem with his part is that "all" characters in the game die with a similar animation which is "faiding away" therefore it's effect are inconclusive in combat."

Going by reasoning all characters in the game are turning every other character to nothingness and therefore there was no need to mention that fact in Ulquiorra's move set. That doesn't fit.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Honestly, I don't understand if you're argueing because you didn't read the scans but I'll just try and sum it up again.

1. "He has the destructive power to turn everything he sees into nothingness."

2. His eyes have special properties

3."...even death itself pales in comparison."

He has EE because his eyes have special properties. I posted more scans of his eyes being special in the first post under the OP. Now if you have an actual argument please say that instead of "it says power so he's hitting things physically into nothingness" when the scans contradict that or "How do you know he's not talking about torture when he says worse than death" when no one has brought an argument for why Ulqu would even be talking about torture and I've explained why he wouldn't be.

 

[AppleLord]

You can't insist that EE can't translate to heavy damage in game. There still needs to be gameplay, cant just have him instantly kill everything. Using gameplay mechanics to argue won't really get far, unless they don't contradict anything else.

No contradiction so far.

 

[Rocker1189]

No contradiction so far.

No contradictions still needs evidence.

 

[HST_Master]

During his Boss Rush Event he explicitly states he has the ability to cause a fate worse than death

 

[NULL_Terrorist]

I think its more Void manip than EE

 

[Rocker1189]

Honestly, I don't understand if you're argueing because you didn't read the scans but I'll just try and sum it up again.
1. "He has the destructive power to turn everything he sees into nothingness."

2. His eyes have special properties

3."...even death itself pales in comparison."

He has EE because his eyes have special properties. I posted more scans of his eyes being special in the first post under the OP. Now if you have an actual argument please say that instead of "it says power so he's hitting things physically into nothingness" when the scans contradict that or "How do you know he's not talking about torture when he says worse than death" when no one has brought an argument for why Ulqu would even be talking about torture and I've explained why he wouldn't be.

Just because you say it is not an actual argument does not make it one. Nothing actually says that he erases people. It literally just looks like a show of his destructive power.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

>Literally like six or seven scans

"I need evidence"

 

[Wokistan]

His power just torturing opponents legit makes no sense though. Assuming that is more of a reach then EE as is. ALso, you said you had examples of verses which were denied EE while having these criteria, care to bring them up?

 

[AppleLord]

No contradictions still needs evidence.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Rocker1189]

>Literally like six or seven scans
"I need evidence"

Six or seven scans of literally nothing only 3 of then refer to nothingness and one scans talk about that nothingness as if it is referring to destructibility.

 

[Wokistan]

Gameplay mechanics in this case would contradict the apparent story, as the corpses are still around. As such, that is considered of lesser priority.

 

[AppleLord]

Its a game profile. I've seen EE added to other profiles with far less evidence than this to back it up. I vote add unless we want to overhaul existing EE profiles.

^

 

[Rocker1189]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

That is a stupid quote. You cant make a claim without evidence.

 

[AppleLord]

That is a stupid quote. You cant make a claim without evidence.

Language. There is evidence. Not enough evidence is another thing. Saying the same thing all over again is no new argument.

 

[Wokistan]

Why are you guys arguing over something irrelevant? We don't use the game mechanics for evidence unless they don't contradict anything story wise. Here, corpses sticking around would contradict the story and descriptions. As such, we don't consider that, and chalk it up to engine limitations or whatever.

 

[AppleLord]

Gameplay mechanics in this case would contradict the apparent story, as the corpses are still around. As such, that is considered of lesser priority.

They "fade away" is just that the video was cut before they did. Other videos where over 11 minutes long. ;-;

 

[Rocker1189]

Language. There is evidence. Not enough evidence is another thing. Saying the same thing all over again is no new argument.

I said it is a stupid quote dont know what you mean by language. There is evidence that also directly contradicts EE. It is no new argument because no new argument has to be said.

 

[Wokistan]

Not considering gameplay mechanics in this case actually helps your case, apple.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

We have evidence though. The game literally says that his eyes have special powers and he turns them into nothingness with the eyes. Your only argument is that we don't have enough evidence to back up EE but we do.

 

[AppleLord]

Not considering gameplay mechanics in this case actually helps your case, apple.

What does that have to do with character "faiding away" and what you said is base on a cut video instead of the full lenght. In one of the cut frames you can see them faiding away.

 

[AppleLord]

I said it is a stupid quote dont know what you mean by language. There is evidence that also directly contradicts EE. It is no new argument because no new argument has to be said.

As such?