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Two of the biggest tyrants to battle

Frieza should be approaching Beerus's power, and Beerus is so far into Low 2C that he's halfway to 2C

Frieza should 1 shot before Bowser uses any of his hax
 
I doubt Frieza backscales from Beerus, but he still scales around 20 times Baseline if not more.
 
It's more I don't believe Bowser and Paper Bowser as the same person, honestly I don't know what being Paper Bowser would give him, but yeah what Mickey said, that would exclude the Pure Hearts, and the other one I can think of is the Star Rod, however pretty much everything else is fine
 
You are aware that we cannot give items that boost up their own tier, that's commom here. Obviously we'd exclude his 2-B items. However, Bowser and Paper Bowser are indeed the same character. It's been proven several times both in game and by Miyamoto twice. So we can't really cherrypick.

Anyways, since Bowser gets items, I'll vote for him. Freiza's only real wincon is his ap since he can pretty much one-shot. However, Bowser should be able to defeat Frieza with sealing, transmutation, perception manipulation, sleep manipulation, duplication, and time stop. While you can say Bowser won't use this at the start, if he dies, he can ressurect with Life Shroom, Retry Clock, and Earlier Times. He'll have knowledge that Frieza is a threat and thus use any move to his advantage. Freiza is also pretty cocky and won't always go for the kill as shown several times.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
You are aware that we cannot give items that boost up their own tier, that's commom here. Obviously we'd exclude his 2-B items. However, Bowser and Paper Bowser are indeed the same character. It's been proven several times both in game and by Miyamoto twice. So we can't really cherrypick.
Anyways, since Bowser gets items, I'll vote for him. Freiza's only real wincon is his ap since he can pretty much one-shot. However, Bowser should be able to defeat Frieza with sealing, transmutation, perception manipulation, sleep manipulation, duplication, and time stop. While you can say Bowser won't use this at the start, if he dies, he can ressurect with Life Shroom, Retry Clock, and Earlier Times. He'll have knowledge that Frieza is a threat and thus use any move to his advantage. Freiza is also pretty cocky and won't always go for the kill as shown several times.
Click to expand...
Standard Equipment: His Koopa Clown Car

The only item he really has right now is his car and the grand star

other items need prep, which he doesn't have
 
Gogeta46power said:
It's more I don't believe Bowser and Paper Bowser as the same person, honestly I don't know what being Paper Bowser would give him, but yeah what Mickey said, that would exclude the Pure Hearts, and the other one I can think of is the Star Rod, however pretty much everything else is fine
Click to expand...
 
I stand corrected

however, the Retry Clock and Earlier Times are countered by the fact that those are game mechanics

and there's nothing stopping Frieza from just zapping him to death over and over again


However, it does seem unfair that Bowser gets items cause that involves giving him prep while giving Frieza nothing. Maybe giving Frieza prep as well will even the score
 
How are they game mechanics? They passively turn time back to restart the battle, those aren't game mechanics at all. Bowser can use literally anything I've just said above. Slim can also be used to completely bypass anything Freiza uses, or use teleportation as a surprise attack.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
How are they game mechanics? They passively turn time back to restart the battle, those aren't game mechanics at all. Bowser can use literally anything I've just said above. Slim can also be used to completely bypass anything Freiza uses, or use teleportation as a surprise attack.
Click to expand...
doesn't the player need to initiate the restart?
 
Bowser is indeed broken. I have a lot for him myself but I keep it silent (even though a certain someone gave me most of it).

Bowser FRA.
 
If Bowser can just rewind time when he loses, then this thread should be closed. Frieza has no method of putting Bowser down.
 
Bowser can't do this as many times as he wants, he can only do this twice and ressurect himself once. Frieza just needs to use literally anything.
 
Doesn't matter if his resurrection is limited. If Bowser can just win the fight after his first death, then Frieza has zero win conditions. It's like how he won in RoF, but time BS resulted in him losing anyways.

Frieza himself has zero experience understanding or combating time hax, for starters, and has no resistances to Time Stop, Sealing and Sleep Manipulation. Some argument can be made for him having Time resistance and the ability to break out of Sealing via spacetime shattering, but granting resistance of Time Stop via Jiren scaling wouldn't be accepted, and if spacetime shattering negated sealing any Dragon Ball character could negate the Mafuba. It depends on how the sealing works.

As for transmutation, that's controversial. Frieza, in my opinion, should be capable of moving and fighting when transmuted ala Vegito but that's not on his profile, is it?

Overall, I'm not seeing how Frieza is meant to win this.
 
Freiza's win condition is using any attacks against Bowser before Bowser uses anything else. It's a difficult win for Frieza, but it isn't a stomp due to having the massive ap advantage. Alsl, Freiza here scales waaay above SSB Goku who already resisted Hit's time stop prior to the ToP. Bowser's sealing captures your body and soul.

Okay I can see Frieza being able to arguably fight with one of Bowser's transmutation, but he has another way. Though it kinda leaves him open so it won't be the best choice.
 
before Bowser uses anything else.

Beerus the Destroyer's speed is about 373.5 Quadrilltion times FTL. He is on a similar level to FPSS Broly, who is stronger than SSG Gogeta, who is far stronger than SS3, who is far stronger than SS2, who is far stronger than SS, who is 50x SSB Goku and Wrath Broly. Frieza is between SSB Goku and SS Gogeta in power and, therefore, speed.

In other words, the gap in speed between Beerus and Frieza is likely thousands of times. For brevity, we will treat SSB Gogeta as 2x Beerus (So 996 Quadrillion times FTL) and massively lowball SSB to being only 50x of SS1.

SSB Gogeta = 996 Quadrillion times

(Massive highball) SS Gogeta = 19.92 Quadrillion times

Post-ToP Golden Frieza = Far faster than Goku, much slower than Gogeta. If we claim he is 50% of SS Gogeta, he would only be around 9-10 Quadrillion times.

Post-ToP SSB Goku = 398.4 Trillion times

Bowser's speed is 76 Trillion to 27.6 Quadrillion times FTL.

Speed isn't equalised. So if we massively highball Frieza's speed, he would still be only about 1/3rd of Bowser's high-end speed calc. If we use Bowser's low-end calc, sure Frieza can blitz.

Mario's reaction speed is calculated to being over 800 trillion times FTL. So it would be absurd, at best, to claim Bowser is 76 Trillion times FTL. As such, he is around 800 Trillion to 27.6 Quadrillion times FTL.

So, overall, even with Frieza's speed being massively high-balled, he would still only be around 12x faster than Bowser's low-end speed. Fast enough to blitz, yes but requires mental gymnastics and bias to argue for him being that fast.

So, no. Frieza can't do anything before Bowser. Bowser has the initiative.

It's a difficult win for Frieza, but it isn't a stomp due to having the massive ap advantage.

AP means jack when Bowser has numerous wincons that are unrelated to AP and when Bowser should be far faster than Frieza.

Alsl, Freiza here scales waaay above SSB Goku who already resisted Hit's time stop prior to the ToP.

Power scaling isn't accepted for giving DBS characters resistance to Time Stop. I don't agree with that, but that's how it is.

Bowser's sealing captures your body and soul.

That doesn't elaborate on whether or not Frieza can break out via spacetime destruction.
 
Wait, I assumed speed was already equalized, if not then this needs to be changed.

A stomp would be Freiza having no wincons. Bowser just has more ways to wins, Frieza can casually defeat Bowser with any of attacks. Again, a stomp would be haven't no wincon, but Frieza still has a chance to win, even if it's fairly small.

Can I see where that was said? Because I disagree with that too.

Not sure about the space-time shattering, since Freiza's soul will be completely removed as well.
 
A stomp would be Freiza having no wincons. Bowser just has more ways to wins, Frieza can casually defeat Bowser with any of attacks. Again, a stomp would be haven't no wincon, but Frieza still has a chance to win, even if it's fairly small.

Unlike a match which is decisive in one character's favor, stomp matches very rarely leave any room for debate, with their outcomes coming across as predictable to anyone with even cursory knowledge of the combatants and their abilities.

Bowser's superior speed, rewinds, revivals and hax makes the outcome of this thread incredibly predictable. There is little debate against Bowser defeating Frieza. If Frieza were faster, maybe he would stand a chance of winning via AP.

Can I see where that was said? Because I disagree with that too.

I don't think there is a specific page that explains the reasoning. You can take a look at the pages and see that they aren't granted Time Stop resistance, despite scaling to or above characters who can overpower Time Stop. There are threads where people argued over it, but it never went through for upgrades.

Not sure about the space-time shattering, since Freiza's soul will be completely removed as well.

It honestly depends. Characters are capable of fighting while transmuted, and souls in Dragon Ball maintain their Ki. However, powerful warriors are granted bodies to fight so...it's kind of unknown if a soul alone can fight with their Ki. If Frieza has his Body and Soul, he can definitely shatter spacetime via Ki.
 
@Gogeta46Power

Give Frieza prep. As of right now this match is slightly biased towards Bowser cause you're giving him items he normally wouldn't have on hand, which requires prep.
 
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