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TVDU General Discussion Thread

i wanted to create a sandbox for a witch from the originals can i have yalls opinion on it
vsbattles.fandom.com

FentyBeauty/sandboxceleste

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

edit: oop srry for being off topic u guys can focus on how to treat the powerful witches first before looking at the sandbox
 
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Twisted_Little_Raven said:
"As one of the most powerful witches in history[insert blog?] Should at least be comparable to this feat of the hollow that was created due to just parts of her power being in close proximity"
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Something like that or.

“As one of the most power witches in history [insert name] should be relative in power to the Hollow who….”

Twisted_Little_Raven said:
The thing is all we need is a distinction of an abnormal high tier witch.
@Danny33wise @GFArrow

Witches are not simple. For example I could argue Dark Josie is superior to the rest simply because she had unique powers. For example, she collapsed a jail cell and levitated herself and the ground into the sky. (Nobody has done this)

In that same clip, she snapped her fingers and changed her entire attire (Wtf?)
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Also yes definitely, though I will say for the clothing change and the flying, we see no name witches fly in legacies if I’m not mistaken and we’ve seen Hope do the same outfit thing as well.

I wouldn’t call like the block of earth being lifted this major feat but I get your point.
 
Alsotime said:
Something like that or.

“As one of the most power witches in history [insert name] should be relative in power to the Hollow who….”


Also yes definitely, though I will say for the clothing change and the flying, we see no name witches fly in legacies if I’m not mistaken and we’ve seen Hope do the same outfit thing as well.

I wouldn’t call like the block of earth being lifted this major feat but I get your point.
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I think it should say "should at least be comparable to a portion of the hollow's power" which assumes greater than the power needed to create the storm and at most comparable to her full power. But I guess I'm fine with hope, Dahlia, Qetsiyah getting your justification of relative
 
Twisted_Little_Raven said:
I think it should say "should at least be comparable to a portion of the hollow's power" which assumes greater than the power needed to create the storm and at most comparable to her full power. But I guess I'm fine with hope, Dahlia, Qetsiyah getting your justification of relative
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I'm fine with this

What about the key? We need to add new keys to some of the characters we have
 
I think top tier profiles should look like

At least 9-A with telekinesis, Low 7-B with raw magic, far higher with prep time

Tho Qetsiyah doesn't need far higher in her prep time one as she has the feat.

Haven't there been dimensions with suns in them
 
Twisted_Little_Raven said:
I think top tier profiles should look like

At least 9-A with telekinesis, Low 7-B with raw magic, far higher with prep time

Tho Qetsiyah doesn't need far higher in her prep time one as she has the feat.

Haven't there been dimensions with suns in them
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Since their telekinesis comes from magic, I think there is no need to separate telekinesis and magic.

I think top tier profiles should look like

9-C physically, At least Low 7-B with magic, Up to 4-C with preparation time
 
Siphoners' profiles also need to be updated. It could be something like this

10-A physically, Varies, usually 9-A up to Unknows by absorbing Magic
 
GFArrow said:
Up to 4-C with preparation time
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Could we try to push for 2c? Witches with enough prep are able to create prison worlds, and Josie was able to siphon an entire prison world.

Prison Worlds are copies of the universe, they have copies of everything from the other world, including other dimensions like Malivore, and we know they extend to outerspace and more as well based on them still having celestial events.
 
Alsotime said:
Could we try to push for 2c? Witches with enough prep are able to create prison worlds, and Josie was able to siphon an entire prison world.

Prison Worlds are copies of the universe, they have copies of everything from the other world, including other dimensions like Malivore, and we know they extend to outerspace and more as well based on them still having celestial events.
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I don't think so no
 
Alsotime said:
It is in fact an assumption when said spell only worked because of it was powered by the people who made that specific form of immortality, and casted by someone whose blood is a loophole to that specific form of immortality, so unless you have an actual scene or statement that implies it could work on silas, it can't.
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You are not making any sense here at all. Freya blood was not the only ingredients used in said ritual and your point is heavily contradicting what the show has already established. Tatia blood was used to çreate the mikaelsons but her blood can't be used to kill them.

Esther who created the spell never had such an idea and only used elena's blood for a linking spell. Freya blood was never a loophole to countering lucien and Marcel immortality, it was just an ingredients that was needed just like how esther channelled the sun to make and original but the sun can't kill them fully.

If freya blood was the main weakness then she wouldn't need any of those other ingredients to forge the dagger and would only need her blood. We have weapon like white oak which can just kill an original but freya blood can't do the same.

Immortality reversal spell will work on silas since it is just removing the magic that made him immortal with the power of the witch who casted Said spell. You are also missing something here, am not the one who need to prove why it will work on silas, you are the one who need to prove why it won't work since the reversal spell has feat of working on immortal so why is silas exclusive to it effect.
Alsotime said:
She was killing him, she was just also dying from the amount of power she was channeling.
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Bonnie needed klaus to be weakened before she could kill him.
Alsotime said:
My point isn't if Abby's desiccation spell is strong or not, I said that what Bonnie did quite literally was not the same as it.
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She used the same spell. And that is why she needed help from the salvators and klaus. If you are talking about the one she used on silas then that is a petrification spell that is similar to what qetsiyah used to turn silas into a stone.
Alsotime said:
Freya's blood is a weakness to upgraded ogs, its the reason the only weapon on earth that can kill them is literally crafted from it.
Click to expand...
Freya blood might be a weakness just like sunlight is a weakness to the mikaelsons when they first turned. We do not know what effect freya blood will hold because neither her dagger or her blood has been tested on an upgraded og.

Freya blood effect is bound to be minor given it wasn't only her blood that was used to forge the dagger. So we simply can't compare it to sunlight effect on vampire.
Alsotime said:
No it isn't, you just keep trying to push like it is and I don't see why, so unless you have an actual statement or scene to prove your point drop it.
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Yes it is weaker than the sireline delinking spell. Davina used hope nexus vorti and four other dark object she collected from father kieran and cami place to resurrect mikael while klaus delinking spell resurrected 2 og. Feat Wise they aren't even in the same category. Hope birth is clearly weaker here.
Alsotime said:
Kol made the feat seem like something that would normally take an entire coven to do, and it was one of esther's most complex spells and hope did it at the age of seven.
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Coven of unnamed witches and he didn't explain any of what you said just now to hope. He only told her to use her magic to un-knot the binding agent. He didn't make it seem complex to hope.
Alsotime said:
No that is not what a celestial event is what, the celestial event was the full moon, which Inadu channeled, you trying to imply she caused a celestial event is literal headcanon, and no Inadu using dark magic to channel her death isn't the same as a celestial event either, it's her using sacrificial magic, which only proves the point that she isn't naturally that strong.
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When was it stated inadu channelled the moon? Inadu only bound the curse to the moon and not the other way round. Esther drawing power from the sun is a celestial event, silas also used the sun again to boost his boundary spell which is another celestial event, bonnie with expression used the moon to boost a boundary spell which is another celestial, esther used the moon to bound klaus wolf side another celestial event, celeste used the moon twice for a boundary spell and to curse the wolves which is another celestial event, emily bennett used a comet to trap lot of vampire in a tomb in the fell church, bonnie and kai used the lunar eclipse to escape prison world which is another celestial event.

You need to prove why what the hollow did wasn't one. The full moon is a celestial event after all.

Alsotime said:
Mason lockwood getting a few punches on Damon doesn't make him relative to him, nor a threat to most of a vampires in the setting, Damon has feats of evading blows from hybrids, and fighting stefan (who has literally killed hybrids, who in feats, statements, and power scale far above any normal werewolf)

He tackled a newbie vamp, a vampire at their literally weakest point of existence, and you bring that point up as a point in the werewolf sides favor? Like what?
If anything Tyler is an outlier because werewolves are pushed in the series to be far far weaker than vamps until the full moon, which is why they get absolutely slaughtered in every real standoff they have against another species.

Also once again, Werewolves cant even use their bite in their human forms unless they have a moonlight ring, so the one real thing they have to even combat vamps is typically restricted to just full moons, which absolutely sucks.
Click to expand...
Mason feat shows physical prowess which is why I brought that up. Stefan has killed multiple hybrid while they where offguard and if I remember correctly hybrid tyler can still swing hands with Damon.

Tyler bit kai while not fully transformed. Tyler is the best wolf in this series with actual self control when it comes to his wolf sides.
Alsotime said:
No, she needed such means because thats the type of magic she was raised on, she was born from power from others, so she powers herself by sacrificing others, its dark magic and its the reason she's so strong, its not raw power.
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Channeling from Sacrificial magic is something innate to inadu. And that's why I call it her magic.
Alsotime said:
She made it counter vampirism, Silas isn't the same type of immortal as originals, nor does his spell have the caveat of being vulnerable to Esther's magic or her bloodline because it wasn't made by her.

This utterly pales in comparison to the cure, which we know would not only work on Silas, but also ogs, and enhanced ogs, theres a clear difference in scale.
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If esther tap into the Bennett magic then she can indeed reverse it. Qetsiyah in knowledge is below esther by a significant margin.

You haven't given any significant reason for anyone to take into consideration on why reversal spell wouldn't work on silas when it main purpose is to to just reverse people like silas immortality.
Alsotime said:
Sunlight being a weakness to him as a vampire means it was channeled during his spell.... thats why vampires are weak to it, because Nature made it hurt them since it was used in the spell to make them
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Where are you getting all this headcanon you keep on spewing. First of all lucien was not a human when he got upgraded into an og, he was a vampire who got upgraded. I don't see why him being upgraded would nullify esther spell effect who channelled the sun.

Lucien was just enhanced to become more superior than the mikaelsons, he wasn't recreated. Theirs also no proof on the ancestors channelling the sun or whatever.
Alsotime said:
He absolutely is,
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Yeah, I just confirmed it. Another reason to not like legacies that much.
Alsotime said:
Freya in raw power is relative to Dahlia, they are both firstborns and therefore have the same devasting power, for Hope to be stated to have more than just that power because of her status as a tribrid, she would have to be above Dahlia, at least in pure magic power.
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Both being first born doesn't mean their power are equal, infact dahlia power is superior here due to her having both freya and her own. Freya after getting unlinked from dahlia started channeling stuff. This furthermore proves why dahlia and freya aren't equal.

Hope be superior than dahlia is gonna be a hard case for you to prove. I see it like this:

Dahlia ~ hope > linked freya > 7yr old hope > delink freya.

Alsotime said:
I know I started replying out of order but I really wanted to reply to this last (well second last but the next topic isn't really a rebuttal) because the notion was funny to me.

Davina was called the most powerful witch in season 1, that was before Freya and Dah were introduced, when Rebekah meet Freya, she affirmed she had never expeirenced magic as strong as hers before, so that makes the simple scaling chain of Slumber Freya > Harvest Davina.

But Dahlia is known to be generally stronger and more skilled than Freya so Dahlia > Slumber Freya > Harvest Davina.

But Dahlia is dead, Freya loses her slumber boost, and Davina doesn't have harvest magic by the time of season 4 when Hope is stated to be the strongest witch in the world, lets keep that in mind.
Inadu has a statement of being one of the strongest witches of all time, which scales her above anyone without that title like say Markos or Vincent.

But she was on the planet earth and even at her peak during season 4, which was when Hope got her statement of being the strongest witch in the world, as was Bonnie, so that means that Hope in pure magical power at seven years old was > Bonnie and Inadu, who intentionally stole her body because of how strong her magic was then, and how strong it would be when she got older.

These statements all existing don't clash because they create a very clear chain if you look at them at face value.
Click to expand...
I was fully on board with freya and dahlia scaling above harvest davina and I still am. I have even commented on it also so we don't have A problem their.

The only problem we have here is I do not accept hope as the strongest witch. She simply lack skills, knowledge and showing like the others. My stance is quite simple:

Inadu > Gatekeeper Davina > Hope ~ Qetsiyah ~ Dahlia > Bonnie.

Hope doesnt have feat when she was older that would even scale above inadu let alone when she was 7. You are clearly wanking hope here with statement and it doesn't work like that on this wiki.
 
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GFArrow said:
What about The Necromancer? Will we include it in this scaling?
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I don't think so. Necromancer wasn't necessarily that impressive besides his resurrection spells which works differently from what we've seen in this series. I don't particularly know where we would scale him to but I was thinking of scaling him to celeste but most of celeste impressive feat where due to channeling.
 
I am not sure. He has the most impressive feats of death and resurrection after the gods. I don't know, maybe he could be higher than qet. While qet needs twin blood to resurrect Bonnie, The Necromancer does not need such things. At worst, he should be superior to Bonnie.
 
Twisted_Little_Raven said:
This looks good. Im impressed.
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tyyy
Twisted_Little_Raven said:
How does she compare to Vincent, Freya, Papa Tunde? I dont remember much about her
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hmm idk rlly i honestly dont think she’s at their level but she has good feats like creating the crescent curse, undoing the crescent curse casted by dahlia, taking all the power from the harvest ritual + using it to resurrect the elders, and that she possessed witches for about a hundred years until monique brought her soul back to her own body where elijah killed her
 
I think the scaling chain should be like this
Hope (Inadu Power) > Inadu ~ Dahlia ~ Qet ~ Hope ~ Gatekeeper Davina >
 
ByArrow said:
I think the scaling chain should be like this
Hope (Inadu Power) > Inadu ~ Dahlia ~ Qet ~ Hope ~ Gatekeeper Davina >
Click to expand...
Hmm... are you saying that after hope with inadu power we should rate every other high tier in the same category 🤔? That sound somewhat reasonable I guess.
 
I will be making davina and ariane profile very soon and theirs gonna be some cool ability. Am also trying to see if I can get some conceptual existence/ability for the hollow.

The hollow is not just an entity/being, the hollow is also a form of magic that can be tapped into. Tapping into a part of the hollow magic also calling upon her/part of her. I will ask moderator and some friends about incase it is something or nothing because am not sure.

The hollow madness manipulation should also be changed from type 2 to type three since this is the explanation given in the type 3 page:

3: Cognition: Those who possess this type drive others insane as a side-effect of the nature of their being, with the very act of looking at or attempting to perceive them being enough to send victims into a state of madness or terror. More extreme forms are capable of outright killing those who suffer from their effects.

This is basically what inadu does but it should just be limited to her spiritual form. Klaus and Marcel where going insane by just looking at inadu spiritual form.
 
Danny33wise said:
I will be making davina and ariane profile very soon and theirs gonna be some cool ability. Am also trying to see if I can get some conceptual existence/ability for the hollow.

The hollow is not just an entity/being, the hollow is also a form of magic that can be tapped into. Tapping into a part of the hollow magic also calling upon her/part of her. I will ask moderator and some friends about incase it is something or nothing because am not sure.

The hollow madness manipulation should also be changed from type 2 to type three since this is the explanation given in the type 3 page:

3: Cognition: Those who possess this type drive others insane as a side-effect of the nature of their being, with the very act of looking at or attempting to perceive them being enough to send victims into a state of madness or terror. More extreme forms are capable of outright killing those who suffer from their effects.

This is basically what inadu does but it should just be limited to her spiritual form. Klaus and Marcel where going insane by just looking at inadu spiritual form.
Click to expand...
This seems straightforward regarding madness thing
 
Alsotime said:
Could we try to push for 2c? Witches with enough prep are able to create prison worlds, and Josie was able to siphon an entire prison world.

Prison Worlds are copies of the universe, they have copies of everything from the other world, including other dimensions like Malivore, and we know they extend to outerspace and more as well based on them still having celestial events.
Click to expand...
Other than Damon's statement, I don't remember any statement showing that Prison World is universal. If it exists, it can be upgraded, but if not, we say it is at least 4-C, likely higher

Also, since Prision World is affiliated with the leader of the Gemini Coven and they all destruction when Kai dies, Kai should be scaled to Prison Worlds with his death.

Something like this

At least 4-C, likely higher with environmental destruction via he's death (As the leader of Gemini Coven, his death caused the destruction of more than one prison world.)
 
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