The Vampire Diaries/The Originals/Legacies scaling conten revision

[TheOldOne1]

She needed all this magic to overpower immortality. We have seen witches who were not at this level torment, harm and defeat the originals.

We have seen a bullet shot by a human soldier hurting DCEU Wonder Woman. We have seen an amateur wizard trap Dream of the endless for over a century. Harming someone doesn't need the power to destroy them. It could require much, much less. An Original could get hurt by witches below the level of Esther channeling Bennet bloodline. But only Esther channeling Bennet bloodline had the power to DESTROY them. If we were to consider the power to hurt a character and to totally destroy them as the same, or if we were to downgrade characters based on weaker characters hurting them, every scaling here would be wrong.

The fact is, to destroy an Original, you need the power of the entire Bennet line wich is 4-B and above easily. Wether a less powerful witch can hurt them, is irrelevant here.

 

[ByArrow]

This is your headcanon. When does Sophie say that?

SOPHIE: She can't be saved. This will not stop at the earth sign, and if you wait it out, you immortals will be the only ones left to argue about it.

Also it wasn't just earthquakes. earthquakes, thunder, tornados, flood, fire, basically all natural disasters in city level destructive level enough that wipes everyone, even reuglar vampiers who also have some level of regeneration. Everyone expect Originals. Would love to see a human survive that.

And none of this surpasses the originals’s reg and immortality. And as for vampires, they die by decapitation and fire. So it makes no difference that vampires will die too.

Also if Originsl were buliding level and simply regenerate as you assume, they still wouldn't be there to argue about it after, as they would have been trapped under the ruins of streets, or the craters in earth etc without the strength to free themselves and start arguing.

If you're at the Small Building Level, you're strong enough to destroy houses, so they could have saved themselves by smashing every piece of debris that fell on them.

And surviving these natural disasters does not mean that you are scaled to the power of these natural disasters. There are people who have survived tornadoes, earthquakes, storms at sea, and these people are not even immortal.

Again, your opinion and headcanon. Both quotes were from the same episode. Two different Originals talk about destroying the city in canon. Unless you have a canon reason they were joking or something.

I didn't say they were joking.

Mikael canonically laid wate to half of Europe.

Again, as we've seen in past scenes, what they talking about is that he's wreaking havoc in the city he's in and causing thousands of deaths.

So far, this is the fourth statement of them having ATLEAST above city level strength/durability. You can't just disprove it all based on your personal interpretation of them not being serious. Not 4 times.

And for them to be city level, they all have to be in one attack. So Mikael has to destroy half of Europe with one punch, Elijah has to destroy the city with one punch and Kol has to destroy it with one punch. And that is not the case here.

Even a Wall Level character, let alone a Small Building Level character, can destroy a city in overtime.

 

[TheOldOne1]

What else supports the tier 4 stuff besides the pocket dimensions? There must be some narrative backing the idea these characters are tier 4.

Sure there is. My original post and argument were based on already established power levels. I didn't know i have to prove the already accepted info on the wiki, or i would have included that in my post as well. But anyways, here:

Katherine: And it got me thinking, all big spells require a source of power, a recurring element, like...a full moon, a comet. But that tombstone is filled with the blood of your ancient relative Ket-soo-yay or whatever.
Bonnie: Qetsiyah.
Katherine: She was powerful enough to create the Other Side, so maybe if you have her blood, you don't need a full moon to drop the veil. Maybe you can do it whenever you want

A drop of Qetsyiah's blood had the equal power to a moon or a comet. If a drop of blood has that kind of power, her whole power being tier 4 sounds reasonable enough, considering she also made a dimension with a star as well. But as stated and proven, her blood gives that much power for anything, even other than dimension stuff.

This is also a durability feat for Hope and other Originals, since to destroy an Original, the power of every Bennet witch, dead or alive for over more than 2000 years, including Qetsyiah herself was needed. All that power also scales to 4 tier or above.

 

[ByArrow]

We have seen a bullet shot by a human soldier hurting DCEU Wonder Woman.

This is normal for bullets and swords in fiction, so this is not anti-feat in most cases.

We have seen an amateur wizard trap Dream of the endless for over a century.

Taken out of context.

Harming someone doesn't need the power to destroy them.

I never said that.

It could require much, much less.

Yes

An Original could get hurt by witches below the level of Esther channeling Bennet bloodline.

Yes. But not only that, the originals cannot defeat or overpower the spells and TKs of these witches.

But only Esther channeling Bennet bloodline had the power to DESTROY them. If we were to consider the power to hurt a character and to totally destroy them as the same,

I never said that. But if you can hurt a Tier 4 character, you are downscale from that Tier 4 character but you are still Tier 4.

or if we were to downgrade characters based on weaker characters hurting them, every scaling here would be wrong.

We are already doing this. If a character with 2 tier 6 feats is being beaten and overpowered dozens of times by tier 8 characters, and these tier 8 characters consistently show feats at tier 8 or below and have difficulty with tier 8 feats, we downgrade the character with tier 6 feats to tier 8.

The fact is, to destroy an Original, you need the power of the entire Bennet line wich is 4-B and above easily. Wether a less powerful witch can hurt them, is irrelevant here.

Yes, it is relevant. Because the originals can't overcome these witches' spells and telekinesis.

 

[Arkenis]

A drop of Qetsyiah's blood had the equal power to a moon or a comet. If a drop of blood has that kind of power, her whole power being tier 4 sounds reasonable enough, considering she also made a dimension with a star as well. But as stated and proven, her blood gives that much power for anything, even other than dimension stuff.

This is also a durability feat for Hope and other Originals, since to destroy an Original, the power of every Bennet witch, dead or alive for over more than 2000 years, including Qetsyiah herself was needed. All that power also scales to 4 tier or above.

Maybe I just don't remember the full context for this, but why is this not in reference to her being a Bennet witch and not that she's got tier 4 blood.

 

[Ezaru]

Like

You know that Ken can create storms and earthquakes, right? You know that he cursed Ben, that he cursed his sister, a god, and that he can break other witches' curses with ease right?

Yes, because they are immortal and regenerative. And even humans can survive in cities destroyed by earthquakes.

He is not speaking literally here. He just talk about destroying building and killing everyone.

He is not speaking literally here. He just talk about destroying building and killing everyone.

Yeah like in the fight he uses defensive magic and says magic doesnt work on him

So you can argue thats why

 

[TheOldOne1]

Maybe I just don't remember the full context for this, but why is this not in reference to her being a Bennet witch and not that she's got tier 4 blood.

I'm not sure what you mean. Why should the blood of every Bennet witch contain the power equal to a moon? If that power was solely coming from being a Bennet witch, why did Bonnie needed Qetsyiah's blood? Why not using her own blood? Bonnie is a Bennet herself.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm not sure what you mean. Why should the blood of every Bennet witch contain the power equal to a moon? If that power was solely coming from being a Bennet witch, why did Bonnie needed Qetsyiah's blood? Why not using her own blood? Bonnie is a Bennet herself.

Oh that just sounds like a bad misinterpretation, they don't mean their blood has the power of a moon, they're talking about the amp those celestial objects give to their magic.

 

[TheOldOne1]

If you're at the Small Building Level, you're strong enough to destroy houses, so they could have saved themselves by smashing every piece of debris that fell on them.

And surviving these natural disasters does not mean that you are scaled to the power of these natural disasters. There are people who have survived tornadoes, earthquakes, storms at sea, and these people are not even immortal.

This is a peak natural disaster that is said to destroy anything but Originals. Wich includes regular vsmpiers and witches with all their protecton splls. No human as well, so i don't know why you keep mentioning that. Some people survive some real life natural disasters. It's irrelevant to the one happening in New Orleans wich was going to destroy everyone.

Also New Orleans is not a village, having only small buildings. It has skyscrapers. If a few of them fall on an Original, it should require more than small building level to get out of that. No matter how you look at it, the statement that they will be fine enough to argue, after the total destruction of a city, makes them far above small building.

And for them to be city level, they all have to be in one attack. So Mikael has to destroy half of Europe with one punch, Elijah has to destroy the city with one punch and Kol has to destroy it with one punch.

Says who?

Though Destructive Capacity and Area of Effect are some primary ways to qualify for a particular tier, they are not the only ones. For instance, harming a character with a certain level of Durability also allows another character to qualify for the corresponding tier

You don't need to destroy a city by a punch to be city level. MCU Thanos can't destroy few continents with a punch. Yet he is in that tier. Originals being able to fight each other scales to their very high durability.

Yes. But not only that, the originals cannot defeat or overpower the spells and TKs of these witches.

Firstly:

Furthermore, characters from a higher tier are not necessarily invincible to entities of lower tiers, as certain powers and abilities can potentially bypass the difference in strength entirely, allowing the latter to contend with or overpower such characters.

This includes the random witches snapping their neck and stuff.

Yes, it is relevant. Because the originals can't overcome these witches' spells and telekinesis.

And secondly, who says they can't? He overcame the magic of one of the most powerful witches of the verse.

 

[TheOldOne1]

Oh that just sounds like a bad misinterpretation, they don't mean their blood has the power of a moon, they're talking about the amp those celestial objects give to their magic.

I know. The amp equal to the power of a moon.

 

[Testarossa002]

You don't need to destroy a city by a punch to be city level. MCU Thanos can't destroy few continents with a punch. Yet he is in that tier. Originals being able to fight each other scales to their very high durability.

He's that tier because he scales to people who have feats of nuking continents in 1 attack
Mikael "laying waste to half of Europe" isn't a statement that suggests it being done with one attack. At no point in the series is any original depicted to have even the range cause destruction (or even anything, really) beyond a few metres. Their entire arsenal is suited for Close Quarters combat. That's not to say that they CAN'T be higher. That's the whole reason for powerscaling. But they need concrete feats to piggyback from.

This is a peak natural disaster that is said to destroy anything but Originals. Wich includes regular vsmpiers and witches with all their protecton splls. No human as well, so i don't know why you keep mentioning that. Some people survive some real life natural disasters. It's irrelevant to the one happening in New Orleans wich was going to destroy everyone

Due to their size relative to that of New Orleans, they don't need to tank the full yield of a NOLA destroying attack. See the Inverse Square Law section on the explosion page

Anyway, like I mentioned earlier, you can scale the originals to 1/4 of Inadu's AP. You can now decide on where Inadu should scale; whether the whole prison realm feats or something much lower

 

[TheOldOne1]

He's that tier because he scales to people who have feats of nuking continents in 1 attack
Mikael "laying waste to half of Europe" isn't a statement that suggests it being done with one attack. At no point in the series is any original depicted to have even the range cause destruction (or even anything, really) beyond a few metres. Their entire arsenal is suited for Close Quarters combat. That's not to say that they CAN'T be higher. That's the whole reason for powerscaling. But they need concrete feats to piggyback from.

I don't think having range attacks matters. If there is a object that is even a few inches but has planetary durability, destroying that object should be a plantery strength feat. That is my understanding based on how DCEU Superman is planetry, due to damaging mother boxes.

Therefore, if an Original has a high level of durability, their strength should also scale to it as they fight each other all the time.

And their durability IS high level, 4-B sounds about right as destroying them requierd the power of entire Bennet blood line including Qetsyiah whose one drop of blood equals to the power of a moon.

Anyway, like I mentioned earlier, you can scale the originals to 1/4 of Inadu's AP. You can now decide on where Inadu should scale; whether the whole prison realm feats or something much lower

I don't have a problem with this scaling. She also pretty much scale to every high tier witch of the verse, so i don't see a reason why should she scale much lower to the prison world feats.

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Following.

 

[Alsotime]

Hope is stated by authors to be the strongest vampire, physically. So you can’t back scale her feats

https://kraken.prod.*********/api/v1/event/won?ctx=0199663c-95cd-7a28-bd84-9fa6fa15ac87


ADVERTISEMENT



https://kraken.prod.*********/api/v3/event/serve?ctx=0199663c-95cd-7a28-bd84-9fa6fa15ac87
I also made a whole post on why I don’t think they scale to her immortality wise either on reddit. Might as well post that here.

Ken could probably kill Originals.

In the vampire diaries it’s stated that enough magic power can overpower an originals immortality.

Ken specifically is immune to all magic, and the only magic powerful enough to harm him is god magic, which he wields.

Ben also stated he was strong enough to completely remove Jed’s werewolf curse, which Inadu, one of the strongest witches of all time, specifically had to channel her own death to create.

This means Ken should be able to overpower the immortality of an original. It also means Hope is more immortal than an original is because Ken couldn’t kill her with his god magic, and specially needed red oak to actually get rid of her. Which means he couldn’t overwrite her werewolf side, etc, with his god magic.

This is probably due to her being nature’s loophole/apex predator.

The only character probably more immortal than Hope, would be Silas who can’t be killed by anything period. He probably couldn’t even be killed by the traveler anti magic circle because Qetsiyah made it with traditional magic, which the circle specifically doesn’t reverse.

-
One of my comments-

Ken can completely remove Inadu’s curse, a curse she had to channel her death for.

“He tried to get his dad to take away my curse.” “It was the only way I could get him to break my curse. No more monsters, no more suffering, and he can break yours too”

Also he didn’t almost kill her, and Cleo stated he needed red oak to kill her. “You can’t kill her, the red oak is gone”

Which is why he made the weapon. I think him beating her into puragatory was just showing how badly he beat her up.

Hope’s immortality is never stated to be able to be overcome with enough magic power, which is why Ken, who has the most magic power, still can’t kill her without red oak. Originals on the other hand. Well-

“How much would it take to kill an Original? “All of it”

“She said she could channel enough witches power to kill him. Elijah thought that would work, and he’s an original so”

Also Bonnie was killing Klaus with her magical power

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Bumping for interest.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Makes sense, I agree.

 

[TheOldOne1]

Hope is stated by authors to be the strongest vampire, physically. So you can’t back scale her feats

https://kraken.prod.*********/api/v1/event/won?ctx=0199663c-95cd-7a28-bd84-9fa6fa15ac87


ADVERTISEMENT



https://kraken.prod.*********/api/v3/event/serve?ctx=0199663c-95cd-7a28-bd84-9fa6fa15ac87
I also made a whole post on why I don’t think they scale to her immortality wise either on reddit. Might as well post that here.

Ken could probably kill Originals.

In the vampire diaries it’s stated that enough magic power can overpower an originals immortality.

Ken specifically is immune to all magic, and the only magic powerful enough to harm him is god magic, which he wields.

Ben also stated he was strong enough to completely remove Jed’s werewolf curse, which Inadu, one of the strongest witches of all time, specifically had to channel her own death to create.

This means Ken should be able to overpower the immortality of an original. It also means Hope is more immortal than an original is because Ken couldn’t kill her with his god magic, and specially needed red oak to actually get rid of her. Which means he couldn’t overwrite her werewolf side, etc, with his god magic.

This is probably due to her being nature’s loophole/apex predator.

The only character probably more immortal than Hope, would be Silas who can’t be killed by anything period. He probably couldn’t even be killed by the traveler anti magic circle because Qetsiyah made it with traditional magic, which the circle specifically doesn’t reverse.

-
One of my comments-

Ken can completely remove Inadu’s curse, a curse she had to channel her death for.

“He tried to get his dad to take away my curse.” “It was the only way I could get him to break my curse. No more monsters, no more suffering, and he can break yours too”

Also he didn’t almost kill her, and Cleo stated he needed red oak to kill her. “You can’t kill her, the red oak is gone”

Which is why he made the weapon. I think him beating her into puragatory was just showing how badly he beat her up.

Hope’s immortality is never stated to be able to be overcome with enough magic power, which is why Ken, who has the most magic power, still can’t kill her without red oak. Originals on the other hand. Well-

“How much would it take to kill an Original? “All of it”

“She said she could channel enough witches power to kill him. Elijah thought that would work, and he’s an original so”

Also Bonnie was killing Klaus with her magical power

Ok, first, there is nothing on canon to suggest Hope is physically stronger than an Original, let alone being the strongest wich would put her above Lucien. Not only she has no feats nor canon statements for that, but that it just, logically, would not make sense and there is no logical reason to back up such headcanon.

And as far as i know, a random writer's text in some random dude's DM's that is agains the canon, would not be considered canon.

The canon says Hope is basically an Original. She shows Originals power level. She shows nothing above them.

And second, 100 witches cannot kill Klaus or any original. Klaus could only be killed during his transformation, at his weakest and in a vulnerable state. Klaus literally say "Now nothing can kill me" after his transformation, wich was before the introduction of white oak, suggest magic can't kill him.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Alsotime]

Klaus could only be killed during his transformation, at his weakest and in a vulnerable state

This isn’t true. They wanted Bonnie to kill Klaus during his transformation because it would be easier on her.

Elijah: Klaus is a vampire born of a werewolf bloodline. The curse has kept his werewolf aspect from manifesting. But if he breaks it...He'll be a true hybrid.
[Damon joins them.]
Damon: Then why are we letting him break the curse? We can kill him today. With Bonnie.
Stefan: Damon...
Elena: No. Bonnie can't use that much power without dying.
Damon: I'll write her a great eulogy.
Elena: It's not an option, Damon.

She literally threatened to kill Elijah at the same time and would have if he didn’t run away.

[Elijah appears to be having second thoughts about killing his brother.]
Bonnie: Do it and I'll take you both out.
Elijah: You'll die.
Bonnie: I don't care.

And as far as i know, a random writer's text in some random dude's DM's that is agains the canon, would not be considered canon

It’s not against canon though? She’s repeatedly stated to be the apex predator, natures unstoppable loophole, who’s physically clashed with the strongest being in the series, Ken. Which is actually a feat that does make her stronger than any original.

Josie saying she’s basically an original doesn’t mean that she’s just a borderline original? Originals have tiers. There’s regular originals like Rebekah, hybrid originals like Klaus, and enhanced/serum originals like Marcel. So her saying she’s basically an original now doesn’t mean she caps at their strength when their strength itself varies.

Julie Plec literally said that Hope as a character causes the Superman problem post becoming a Tribrid. Just because you want Marcel to be stronger than her doesn’t mean that’s the case.

BM: On one level, it's the Superman problem, because the minute you have the most powerful creature in the world, you have to find ways to put obstacles in that person's way. And maybe there'd be some people who would like the show where Hope is just the most powerful creature in the world and just tears through every single thing in 20 minutes. [But] it's just not generally [how] drama works, so you've always gotta find people who are stronger or at least a challenge—and it is a challenge.

And their durability IS high level, 4-B sounds about right as destroying them requierd the power of entire Bennet blood line including Qetsyiah whose one drop of blood equals to the power of a moon.

And also no. She wasn’t going to kill them. She was going to reverse their immortality and kill them. They wouldn’t have 4b durability. Especially since we know they are canonically weak to 100 witches

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Easy agreement for me.

 

[TheOldOne1]

They wanted Bonnie to kill Klaus during his transformation because it would be easier on her.

Not true

Elijah: The curse must be broken during the full moon. When Klaus is in transition. That's when he'll be at his most vulnerable. A witch with enough power...can kill Klaus.

Elena: What if I told you that I knew a witch that could channel that much power?

First, read Elijah's words. He clearly states a witch with enough power can kill Klaus when he is at his MOST VULNERABLE.

Then, i encourage you to pay attention to Elena's words. It's the first time she suggested to use Bonnie. And it was after Eljiah already said they can only kill Klaus during the transition. So it debunks your assumption that they only tried during transition to get easy on Bonnie. He didn't know Bonnie at the time he shared this info. This was just the only possible way to kill him.

She literally threatened to kill Elijah at the same time and would have if he didn’t run away.

She did threat as such, and Eljiah answered "You'll die". You took his words as "You'll die with us as well" when infact it was something like "You'll die trying". Because that's the only way it would make sence.

If you believe Bonnie infact could kill both Klaus and Eljiah at the same time and after the transition, then you would be contradicting yourself. Because now, you are suggesting that the power of only 50 witches is enough to kill an Original, while previously you said it's a 100.

Not only that belief would contradict your words, it would contradict the entire lore of the shows.

It would be against the lore of every single season. An insults to the Trinity, the oldest most powerful non original vampiers, even more resourceful than the originals, spent centuries on trying to find a way to kill an Original and yet they somehow never tried using the power of 50-10 witches.

Each member of the Trinity had acsess to that kind of power. Tristan, the leader of Strix, had his own coven of witche. Lucien, had the full power of ancestors, the hundreds of dead witches and their living regent/covens at his will to destroy Originals. Aurora was the leader of Triad, a secret supernatural origination made by witches, vampiers and werewolves.

All of them had acsess to such power and they always desired killing Originals. Yet they never could.

And lastly, it would contradict Klaus's own words the episode after they tried to kill him:

Klaus: That was amazing. How long has it been?
Elijah: Almost 2 days. Full moon came and went. You remained a wolf

Klaus: What kind of brother would break his bond? Even though you did try to kill me.
Elijah: I could have. But I didn't.
[Elijah helps Klaus put on his jacket.]

Klaus: And now no one can, not even you. Relax, Elijah. All is forgiven.

This was right after Klaus transformed back to his human form. In the absence of white oak, and after his transition was done, he says nothing can kill him now. Wich would include Bonnie herself who still had acsess to that power for a while after.

Josie saying she’s basically an original doesn’t mean that she’s just a borderline original? Originals have tiers. There’s regular originals like Rebekah, hybrid originals like Klaus, and enhanced/serum originals like Marcel. So her saying she’s basically an original now doesn’t mean she caps at their strength when their strength itself varies.

There has never been an instance when someone in the show calls Marcel/Lucien an Original. Canonically they have always been referred to as Beasts. The upgraded original vampire is nothing but a fan given nickname that no one actually uses in the show. Hope was called an Original just like her family.

Also, there is no canonical nor logical reason for Hope's vampire side to be above his family. If anything, she should be weaker due to being a 1000 years younger.

And i don't care about Marcel being physically stronger than Hope or not. Don't know what gave you that idea.

Julie Plec literally said that Hope as a character causes the Superman problem post becoming a Tribrid. Just because you want Marcel to be stronger than her doesn’t mean that’s the case.

That is true. But what about that statement made you belive Hope is physically stronger than an Original? Hope is more powerful than her family and Marcel, causing the superman problem because she is basically Klaus with Mikaelson first-born level of magic.

And also no. She wasn’t going to kill them. She was going to reverse their immortality and kill them. They wouldn’t have 4b durability. Especially since we know they are canonically weak to 100 witches

She was going to reverse their immortality instead of outright killing them wich shows that SHE COULDN'T outright kill them. If the power of 50/100 witches could kill an Original as you suggest, then Esther who had acsess to the power equal to THOUSANDS witches would have outright kill them all. But she couldn't even kill ONE. She had them all linked to Finn who was ready to die by her hands. Would be easy to just kill him with the power of 100 witched and be done with it. Yet all of that power was only enough to reverse the immortality of one of them and that was only because the magic that made them(her magic) could also unmake them.

Anyways these discussions are pointless, i'm not trying to prove Hope or any Original is 4B. They currently ARE 4B here, i'm simply suggesting when one original is 4b they all should scale then.

 

[Kaydee1648]

I’m just gonna point out that a character jumping from tier 9 (the caliber of on screen feats) all the way to tier 4 is an outlier.
Considering normal vampires can damage an Origibal and even block attacks from them (klaus vs marcel, Damon vs Kol), they’d probably downscale. And by extension, ware-wolves like Jackson kenner and Tyler would end up being 4-B aswell.
Which isn’t remotely close to what’s usually portrayed.
I mean, i can see them being tier 8-7 physically but 4-B is beyond absurd.

 

[TheOldOne1]

I’m just gonna point out that a character jumping from tier 9 (the caliber of on screen feats) all the way to tier 4 is an outlier.
Considering normal vampires can damage an Origibal and even block attacks from them (klaus vs marcel, Damon vs Kol), they’d probably downscale. And by extension, ware-wolves like Jackson kenner and Tyler would end up being 4-B aswell.
Which isn’t remotely close to what’s usually portrayed.
I mean, i can see them being tier 8-7 physically but 4-B is beyond absurd.

Your takes are very wrong, but i avoid answering simply to not fill this thread with anymore irrelevant dissuasions. This thread is mainly just to show Original physically do scale to Hope, whatever her tier may be.

If you think her current tier is not suitable, feel free to make a content revision thread for her downgrade and tag me there, we can have this conversation over there.

 

[TheOldOne1]

I will soon list the people who agree or disagree with the changes. Please note that this thread is made mainly to scale Originals/Ken to Hope. And unfortunately there has been so many irrelevant conversations here, some people disagreeing with stuff about Originals other than them scaling to Hope, wich is the only point of this thread.

If you follow this thread and you already haven't, please express your opinion only on whether you agree that all Originals should physically scale to Hope or not.

 

[Alsotime]

First, read Elijah's words. He clearly states a witch with enough power can kill Klaus when he is at his MOST VULNERABLE.

Right. Which is when he’s weakest… he doesn’t say he needs to be a his most vulnerable to be killed. Him being at his most vulnerable makes it easier to kill him. Yet again Bonnie was going to kill him and Elijah. And she was also going to kill him when he was in Alaric’s body.

I literally also showed you the quote of it being brought up that they’re only going to use the spell against him during the transition because it means Bonnie won’t die

She did threat as such, and Eljiah answered "You'll die". You took his words as "You'll die with us as well" when infact it was something like "You'll die trying". Because that's the only way it would make sence.

because that’s what he meant.

If you believe Bonnie infact could kill both Klaus and Eljiah at the same time and after the transition, then you would be contradicting yourself. Because now, you are suggesting that the power of only 50 witches is enough to kill an Original, while previously you said it's a 100.

There is no contradiction. The power wouldn’t just magically split in half lol. She would hit them both with the same spell while they are today and then they would both die. It was easier to overwhelm Klaus with the spell when he was in transition but adding Elijah in and she’d have to channel too much power and then would die

This was right after Klaus transformed back to his human form. In the absence of white oak, and after his transition was done, he says nothing can kill him now. Wich would include Bonnie herself who still had acsess to that power for a while after.

He was boasting, and was wrong anyway because there are various characters who we know can kill him anyway.

Bonnie’s friends didn’t want her to die, so no Bonnie was off the board

She was going to reverse their immortality

this is never stated. It’s just said she’s going to kill. The only time Immortality reversal is brought is in in reference to Esther

the power of 50/100 witches

100 Bennett witches. Strongest bloodline in the show

But she couldn't even kill ONE

she wanted to reverse their immortalities before she killed them so that they wouldn’t be supernatural anymore. If she was going to just kill them outright could’ve just did the same spell Bonnie did the season prior. It wouldn’t take anymore magic because they were all linked to Finn so that anything that happened to him would happen to them

 

[TheOldOne1]

he doesn’t say he needs to be a his most vulnerable to be killed. Him being at his most vulnerable makes it easier to kill him

That's exactly what Elijah did say. When did he say him being at his most vulnerable makes it just easier to kill? He said when he is at his most vulnerable, a witch with enough power can kill him. What does the opposite of this statement means? That when he is NOT at his most vulnerable, even a witch with enough power Cannot kill him. I don't understand the confusion, his words are clear.

There is no contradiction. The power wouldn’t just magically split in half lol. She would hit them both with the same spell while they are today and then they would both die. It was easier to overwhelm Klaus with the spell when he was in transition but adding Elijah in and she’d have to channel too much power and then would die

What spell? She didn't use nor learn any spell to kill an Original. Such spell doesn't exist. She was using raw magic, the force behind 100 dead witches wich was required to kill Klaus in his most vulnerable. Following your headcanon, if you need the power of 100 witches to kill an Original, then you would be needing the power of 200 to kill 2 of them. And Bonnie didn't have that much power, it's simple math. So Eljiah was in fact telling her that she would die trying killing them.

And she was also going to kill him when he was in Alaric’s body.

What's your point? Alaric was human at the time. Of course Bonnie or any witch for that matter could kill him. Klaus being inside his body wouldn't make him immortal.

I literally also showed you the quote of it being brought up that they’re only going to use the spell against him during the transition because it means Bonnie won’t die

Ok, you are forgetting a big part of the plot. The reason Eljiah had to kill Klaus personally. It was, because it would have killed Bonnie to do it herself during the transition, when Klaus is at his most vulnerable. So Eljiah offered her a deal. She would weaken the already vulnerable Klaus to the point that Elijah can finish him, without Bonnie dying.

Bonnie killing Klaus herself during the transition and in Klaus's most vulnerable state already would have killed her, but then you think she could have done it before the transition?

He was boasting

Lol. Boasting? It's a clear statement from the character himself, one that Eljiah didn't disagree with. It was the whole point of it, that when Klaus complete the transition, he cannot be killed by them.

and was wrong anyway because there are various characters who we know can kill him anyway.

Such characters didn't exist at the time of the statement. The statement applies to the charchaters of that time, including Bonnie.

this is never stated. It’s just said she’s going to kill. The only time Immortality reversal is brought is in in reference to Esther

I was referring to Esther as well.

. If she was going to just kill them outright could’ve just did the same spell Bonnie did the season prior.

That's the point, she didn't, because she couldn't, nor could Bonnie, nor could any other top tier witches way above her. Dahlia used white oak to kill them, the Hollow used Marcel's venom, the king of gods himself used red oak combined with god magic because god magic alone wouldn't be enough. God magic wouldn't be enough and you think magic of 100 dead witches would?

 

[TheOldOne1]

I have now listed the names of people agreeing or disagreeing with Originals physically scaling to Hope.

Please note that this CRT is just about Original being able to physically scale to Hope, it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with Hope's current tier, that could be changed later.

Also, due to the many irrelevant dissuasion in this thread, some people haven't expressed their opinion on the actual subject of this CRT: whether Originals can or can't physically scale to Hope. If you follow this thread and haven't commented on that subject, or if you have and i somehow missed it between all these discussions, please notify me and i'll edit the list.

 

[Louise1959]

Then 8-C for the Originals: Klaus, Mikael, Rebekah, Elijah, Kol, Finn also those up there with them or above them like Enhanced Original Alaric and The Beasts: Lucien and Marcel

9-A for ancient vampires who are just below then in terms of strength, speed and age: Aya, Aurora, Tristan, Mohinder, Shen Min

9-B for middle old vampires or hybrids of comparable strength: Katherine, Nadia, Trevor, Rose, Lexi, Anna, Pearl, Tyler, Hayley

9-C for young vampires or hybrids: Kai, Damon, Enzo, Stefan, The Heretics, Elena, Caroline

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I’m just gonna point out that a character jumping from tier 9 (the caliber of on screen feats) all the way to tier 4 is an outlier.
Considering normal vampires can damage an Origibal and even block attacks from them (klaus vs marcel, Damon vs Kol), they’d probably downscale. And by extension, ware-wolves like Jackson kenner and Tyler would end up being 4-B aswell.
Which isn’t remotely close to what’s usually portrayed.
I mean, i can see them being tier 8-7 physically but 4-B is beyond absurd.

I knew it was too good to be true.