TVDU General Discussion Thread

[Danny33wise]

So is the upgrade still happening?

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

It should of been happened but I took a break off site

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

I have an ongoing crt for another verse so I'ma waiting till I finish that to involve myself in another

 

[Alsotime]

Ken > Hope >= Jen >> Inadu/The Hollow > Dahlia >= Qetsiyah

I disagree with this scaling chain post Hope, Jen has no reason to scale above any of the aforementioned characters, and Qetsiyah has better feats than both Dahlia and the Hollow.

It needs to be at planetary level as it creates a world-wide Hell

We don’t know how big it is, we just know it sent people across the world their when they died, it’s not the same as the other side which we know is planetary in size because of the way it works.

Maybe Kai parker with the power from the traveler spell.

Kai with power from the Traveler Spell and Post Merge is like one of the strongest witches in the series it’s actually ridiculous.

Ken scale on top of everyone in the verse

Ken doesn’t scale above all the speed in the verse though, since we know Hope’s vamp speed is faster.

Cade scales to creation of hell.

At the Bonnie peak, scales to Cade.

Vice Versa too , Cade would scale to Bonnie’s private dimension which at the very least had a source of sunlight [Though it’s definitely a mixed bag on how it’s interpreted,The TVD does have bigger dimensions like Malivore, so it’s not really nlf or a wide reach to push a star level narrative imo, but it’s not really a hill to die on either]

Also Cade would outscale her as he was overpowering her in their battle.

'm pretty sure those are exaggerations

I disagree, Malivore being an endless all consuming void is a very consistently stated and called out thing in the series, I’d take it at face value since there’s nothing to imply otherwise

 

[Danny33wise]

I disagree with this scaling chain post Hope, Jen has no reason to scale above any of the aforementioned characters, and Qetsiyah has better feats than both Dahlia and the Hollow.

There's no reasonable reason why qetsiyah should be scaling above inadu. While qetsiyah might have 1 impressive feat (dimension feat) she simply lack any showing that would place her above inadu. Inadu in a weakened state shooked the entirety on new Orleans While resurrecting and also created new species.

Lore wise Inadu is not portrayed to be inferior to any other witch and this is why I have a problem with scaling hope above Inadu. Based on me it should logically be:

Hollow > gatekeeper davina > dahlia >= qetsiyah > hope > bonnie.

Also Cade would outscale her as he was overpowering her in their battle.

This seems reasonable. What would you say about Katherine since she doesn't have feat but has cade power.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Qetsiyah has no proof her combat feats are anywhere near inadu and her biggest feats were mostly done due by prep time where as Inadu just has straight raw magic power. Inadu would bully her but if Qetsiyah had prep sure

 

[Alsotime]

There's no reasonable reason why qetsiyah should be scaling above inadu. While qetsiyah might have 1 impressive feat (dimension feat) she simply lack any showing that would place her above inadu. Inadu in a weakened state shooked the entirety on new Orleans While resurrecting and also created new species.

Qetsiyah doesn't have one impressive feat, the other side is like one of three right?
She made immortality so strong Nature couldn't counter it at all and had to make doppelgangers (one of the strongest existing forces of magic) to counter it.
She went on to make a cure for said Immortality in the span of a day by herself, and said cure works on everything, including Hope.
A bit of her blood by itself was compared to a literal celestial event and with the expression triangle was used by Bonnie to take down the veil to the other side.
Not to mention she outright tells Katherine that she could make her immortal or atleast stop her from rapidly dying but just chose not to because

"Altering someone's lifespan is what started this whole mess in the first place. I've learned my lesson. I'm not saving your life."

Lore wise Inadu is not portrayed to be inferior to any other witch

Nor is Dahlia, Nor Qet, the only witch whose had the title of one of the strongest that's been proven to be inferior to another witch in the same category is Esther, who we know is factually weaker than Dah.

People only like to pretend that Qet is weaker than Inadu, or Dahlia because she isn't a combat witch, but that's because she doesn't practice dark magic, has never had a lust to kill people like Inadu or the need for more power like Dahlia, she uses traditional magic for things she wants, want to live forever with Silas? Just make true loopholeless immortality (which is actually even more insane if you take into context the fact that even gods like Ken have loopholes and objects that can kill them),Want to make Silas suffer forever? Easy just make the only thing able to remove said immortality, but also make a planet wide dimension that prevents supernaturual beings from going to peace just so that if he does take the cure and die, he has to be trapped there with her forever. The cure was made in the span of a DAY, the other side was probably made not longer after, and this was all because she felt slighted, Inadu making werewolves is a footnote in comparison to the species Qet made.

this is why I have a problem with scaling hope above Inadu.

Hope is definitely in contention for most magical power in the show and has very sound reasons to be scaled above Inadu, even if you ignore feats, Lore Wise Hope is definitely the strongest witch post tribrid transition,
Its in writers statements.

consequences of having a seven year old who is the most powerful witch in the world. - Michael Narduuci

its stated by acolyte of the hollow.

Even now, she's locking herself within the greatest witch this world may ever know - A Hollow follower to Klaus in Original's episode Voodoo Child

Its pushed by Dahlia

DAHLIA: First-born witches in this bloodline possess devastating power.
[Klaus sighs and begins to sigh as he walks over to younger Freya and Dahlia, who are now kneeling on the ground and hugging each other tightly]

Klaus: You're saying this is what's to come for Hope?

DAHLIA: Hope will suffer far more than Freya. Hope's magic will be tainted by your vampire blood as well as the aggressive wolf temperament. Without the proper tutelage that only I can provide, Hope's power will grow unchecked. She will lash out at everyone, including you. She will devastate the city that you love, and then her terror will spread far beyond. - City Beneath The Sea Transcript

Echoed all throughout legacies.

We are talking about more power than anyone has ever had. - Alaric referring to Hope becoming the Tribrid in We all knew this day was coming

There is no one like her, this girl might be the most powerful supernatural that has ever existed, and she's a ticking time bomb.

Alaric in I Thought You'd Be Happier To See Me​

The first of her kind. An immortal, unstoppable force of nature who just so happens to be my girlfriend. And the daughter of one of history's most ruthless killers.
- There's No I in Team, or Whatever

Feat Wise Inadu's resurrection doesn't compare to Hope's birth causing a nexus vorti, or her rebirth as a vampire alone changing the entire atmosphere and weather by itself things other witches like Dahlia needed prep to do, Mind you Dahlia scales above Harvest Davina, seeing as she scaled above Harvest Freya, who stated by Rebekah had power she had never seen in a witch before, ever.

What would you say about Katherine since she doesn't have feat but has cade power.

Have we ever seen her use psychic powers? If not I wouldn't scale her to it at all.

Hollow > gatekeeper davina > dahlia >= qetsiyah > hope > bonnie.

I disagree with this scale aswell, bonnie and qet's dimension creating feats alone should scale them higher than Davina, and there's no real reason to place the hollow higher than Dah or Qet in the context of power imo.

 

[ByArrow]

What about Freya?

While receiving power from Dahlia, she was truly powerful and had all the power of the ancestors, even if only for a short time.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Qetsiyah needed prep time for the immortality spell and the other side. This is more a testament to her knowledge and experience as a witch but there are witches with stronger magic power like Hope and Inadu @Alsotime

Inadu has feats like causing a hurricane without even being whole with just raw magic power no spell needed. She casually created the werewolf curse. Her magic was creating reality warping such as turning water to blood, conjuring snakes out of thin air, etc. hope using her power killed a shit load of vampires and she can posses a vampire while retaining the powers if a witch. If inadu posses a vampire she can make that vampire physically superior to even the beast like Marcel and Lucien. Her blood turned to acid, she knocked Marcel out with a telekinetic scream, she ragdolls Freya.

So at most Qetsiyah can get us a possibility scale imo. Yes the other side beats anything any witch has done but it's not like she just willed it or something. Witches can do extraordinary things when channeling celestial events.

I would scale Qetsiyah to inadu for Qetsiyah being one of the strongest witches in history but never above it. Inadu I upscale everybody but tribrid hope.

Regarding Jen she is a physical match for hope

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Qetsiyah is older than the rest so it wouldn't surprise me if she knew things they don't. She could have access to some special herbs, maybe she channeling the right things, and she knows more spells in general. Prep time feats are hard to take seriously which is why I prefer raw power ones.

For example Qetsiyah's raw power feats weren't nearly as impressive as Inadu. You say Qetsiyah had no desire to destroy ppl but you can argue Inadu had no reason to create a dimension. Plus didn't a coven create a dimension whom are inferior to Inadu?

I think Qetsiyah scaling to Inadu is okay but again personally I still don't see why. Inadu felt like more than a witch she felt like a god or something. She has feats no other witches have. I mean it took the sacrifice of an original to take her out and even as a spirit just her magic power alone causes environmental hazards when in close proximity to another portion of her power.

There is indeed a different between raw power and spell crafting imo. Dahlia has better spellcasting than Inadu but the latter has more raw magic. Bonnie with the power of one hundred dead witches is an example of a witch with absurd magic power. Qetsiyah is basically like a stronger Esther with more knowledge. Prep time feats are sadly unusable as they would all be considered outliers in combat. Which is why inadu is the most impressive in that regard when it comes to combat she far outclasses any other witch. Qetsiyah simply doesn't have impressive combat showings other than the typical migraine spell and turning fire blue.

But like I'm said I'm fine scaling her to Inadu just I wouldn't put her above it

 

[FentyBeauty]

this is off-topic but there is this monster from legacies 1x10 that can like create realities through wishes and i was wondering if they would be worth making a profile for considering the only notable stuff they done is like creation + like reality warping or wtv

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

In a nutshell prep time feats are considered outliers that don't affect their Combat statistics so we havs to use raw power ones. And when it comes to raw power Inadu is just built different. Nobody should upscale her combat AP except Hope imo. But I'll take a somewhat comparable with Dahlia and Qetsiyah

 

[FentyBeauty]

what would qetsiyah, dahlia, inadu, hope scale to?

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

what would qetsiyah, dahlia, inadu, hope scale to?

Inadu creating a hurricane with raw power that was calced i scaled them all (on this thread at least) to that so it wouldn't even matter really as I already scaled to the same feat. This is just semantics about which witch is stronger so anybody with the title strongest witch in history I planned on scaling to the feat which Included Esther and Qetsiyah I just personally see Inadu as the most impressive

 

[Alsotime]

You say Qetsiyah had no desire to destroy ppl

This equivalency doesn't work because we know that fighting is just something Qetsiyah is bad at, She lost to Silas in a confrontation and he admitted that she is stronger than him, She never had a reason to train and be a battling witch, most of which use dark magic, Dahlia and Inadu combat feats are only stronger because they actually use combat spells she doesn't.

Plus didn't a coven create a dimension whom are inferior to Inadu?

Are you talking about the ancestral realm? If so that only covers new orleans.

Prep time feats are sadly unusable as they would all be considered outliers in combat.

They can still be calced if they are done within a specific set time frame, and the theres merit in an argument that Qet made the other side in the time it took Silas to find her with Amara's heart.

Inadu felt like more than a witch she felt like a god or something. She has feats no other witches have.I mean it took the sacrifice of an original to take her out and even as a spirit just her magic power alone causes environmental hazards when in close proximity to another portion of her power.

I would honestly say the same for Qet, she used her own power to make the best immortality in the entire franchise, even better than the gods in legacies.
In a matter of hours she made a cure that seems to counter all forms of immortality, and her blood, not even her full power, just a tomb of her blood, is compared to a celestial event, a nexus vorti, that scales to her raw power.

(For proof on why Qet has magical power comparable to a nexus vorti, Mikael in a From A Cradle to a Coffin sights that an astrological event is a form of a nexus vorti.

MIKAEL: [laughs] Ah, yes. My wife, Esther, always did love to dress things up a bit. It's fancy witch-speak. A nexus vorti-- a rare occurrence. Something so infrequent, it's almost a miracle. Like, an astrological event.

In the vampire diaries episode "She's come undone", it's directly stated that Qetsiyah's blood by itself is comparable to an astrological event.

Katherine: I am perfectly aware that tombstone isn't just a hunk of rock.

Bonnie: No kidding

.Katherine: And it got me thinking, all big spells require a source of power, a recurring element, like...a full moon, a comet. But that tombstone is filled with the blood of your ancient relative Ket-soo-yay or whatever

Bonnie: Qetsiyah.

Katherine: She was powerful enough to create the Other Side, so maybe if you have her blood, you don't need a full moon to drop the veil. Maybe you can do it whenever you want. The thing I can't figure out is, why do you wanna drop the veil at all?

Also seeing as Nature didn't make a loophole for her immortals, and the feat of making the other side is attributed to her magical power, one can make the assumption she didn't channel for either of those spells the first and just did it all on her lonesome, which would utterly trump anything Inadu has done raw power wise, even without that assumption Qet's blood being comparable to a nexus vorti alone would make her raw power scale higher.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

This equivalency doesn't work because we know that fighting is just something Qetsiyah is bad at, She lost to Silas in a confrontation and he admitted that she is stronger than him, She never had a reason to train and be a battling witch, most of which use dark magic, Dahlia and Inadu combat feats are only stronger because they actually use combat spells she doesn't.

Are you talking about the ancestral realm? If so that only covers new orleans.

They can still be calced if they are done within a specific set time frame, and the theres merit in an argument that Qet made the other side in the time it took Silas to find her with Amara's heart.

I would honestly say the same for Qet, she used her own power to make the best immortality in the entire franchise, even better than the gods in legacies.
In a matter of hours she made a cure that seems to counter all forms of immortality, and her blood, not even her full power, just a tomb of her blood, is compared to a celestial event, a nexus vorti, that scales to her raw power.

(For proof on why Qet has magical power comparable to a nexus vorti, Mikael in a From A Cradle to a Coffin sights that an astrological event is a form of a nexus vorti.

In the vampire diaries episode "She's come undone", it's directly stated that Qetsiyah's blood by itself is comparable to an astrological event.









Also seeing as Nature didn't make a loophole for her immortals, and the feat of making the other side is attributed to her magical power, one can make the assumption she didn't channel for either of those spells the first and just did it all on her lonesome, which would utterly trump anything Inadu has done raw power wise, even without that assumption Qet's blood being comparable to a nexus vorti alone would make her raw power scale higher.

Hmmm most of that makes sense it would just be better if she displayed herself in a more magical combat dominate manner. So I'll take it as she has the power but isn't good at fighting. It's just weird cause alot of feats are unique for Inadu. I mean her spirit exists as a blue ball of energy that can overpower powerful witches like Vincent even in that form. She can possess people and make a vampire physically stronger than Marcel while keeping witch powers. she was Gunna kill every first born of New Orleans by just the consequence of her power joining up. she has revived the dead (which already makes her ridiculous) created werewolves with a chant, acid blood, passively turning water to blood, conjuring snakes, hurricanes, stomping powerful witches with telekinesis, being virtually unkillable, hope using her power massacred an entire horde of vampires (which is absurd. Killing vampires with raw magic is not normal especially that many), one shotting Marcel with a scream, etc.

But what u said still , makes sense. It's just hard to gauge witches when their feats drastically differ. But I would say yes the celestial thing is convincing. Even Dark Josie has unique witch feats. Wasn't she also as powerful as a celestial event? And I never really put her above Dahlia and Inadu so Idk.

Again I scale them all to the feat which is what I think is best. As far as wording they should both use should be comparable to if not stronger than the most powerful witches in the wording but ill live with Qetsiyah getting "should have comparable to or superior raw magic" too

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

But yea I agree it just means she sucks at witch combat

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Tbh all of the "Bad" witches look the best combat wise. Inadu, Dahlia, Dark Josie, no humanity Hope, and harvest Davina. So it might just be as simple as dark witches tend to show more. So if Qetsiyah were a true villian with good screentime she would probably ragdoll others the same way

 

[Danny33wise]

Qetsiyah doesn't have one impressive feat, the other side is like one of three right?
She made immortality so strong Nature couldn't counter it at all and had to make doppelgangers (one of the strongest existing forces of magic) to counter it.
She went on to make a cure for said Immortality in the span of a day by herself, and said cure works on everything, including Hope.
A bit of her blood by itself was compared to a literal celestial event and with the expression triangle was used by Bonnie to take down the veil to the other side.
Not to mention she outright tells Katherine that she could make her immortal or atleast stop her from rapidly dying but just chose not to because

This still doesn't prove why she would scale above inadu. Inadu while ina weakened state also countered nature's loophole about the lebonire blood being a weakness to her as she was later able to possess hope.

Qetsiyah creating a cure is indeed impressive but hollow created an entire species in minutes and powered it with her death. The hollow was so strong to the point that her bones where Indestructible.

Inadu was a beast compared to qetsiyah and that's why she should scale above her.

Nor is Dahlia, Nor Qet, the only witch whose had the title of one of the strongest that's been proven to be inferior to another witch in the same category is Esther, who we know is factually weaker than Dah.

People only like to pretend that Qet is weaker than Inadu, or Dahlia because she isn't a combat witch, but that's because she doesn't practice dark magic, has never had a lust to kill people like Inadu or the need for more power like Dahlia, she uses traditional magic for things she wants, want to live forever with Silas? Just make true loopholeless immortality (which is actually even more insane if you take into context the fact that even gods like Ken have loopholes and objects that can kill them),Want to make Silas suffer forever? Easy just make the only thing able to remove said immortality, but also make a planet wide dimension that prevents supernaturual beings from going to peace just so that if he does take the cure and die, he has to be trapped there with her forever. The cure was made in the span of a DAY, the other side was probably made not longer after, and this was all because she felt slighted, Inadu making werewolves is a footnote in comparison to the species Qet made.

Lore wise dahlia wasn't portrayed to be inferior to anyone in the series at that point in time as she was the strongest witch then. Feat and statement wise in the series, inadu was clearly shown to be stronger than dahlia by a significant margin and her feat speaks for itself.

Inadu is stronger given that in her weakened state she did stuff like making it rain blood, even with a small fraction of inadu power when klaus came to meet freya in the compound when the hollow was within him and his siblings, inadu power was capable of making rod turn to snake and and other stuff.

I do agree with you on qetsiyah being above dahlia in power both the gap shouldn't be that much so either way dahlia still scaling to qetsiyah is a very big possibility and a claim that can still be backed up.

As for silas immortality, qetsiyah is very old and I don't believe she's that familiar with modern magic and u also don't think anyone believes that tvd witches is superior to TO witches based on skills and knowledge. Silas came very early in tvd so they might have not known the answer to his immortality but in TO stuff like reversal spell where people with knowledge on said the spell they want to remove can actually do that with enough magic and lucien and freya proved that much.

Silas immortality should be in the same pay grade as lucien immortality since theirs a possibility that even with the cure in lucien system, it would only remove his upgraded vampire state and live him as a regular vampire.

Hope is definitely in contention for most magical power in the show and has very sound reasons to be scaled above Inadu, even if you ignore feats, Lore Wise Hope is definitely the strongest witch post tribrid transition,
Its in writers statements.

Hope doesnt have feat above inadu but lore wise hope is portrayed to be strongest species but that doesn't mean she's the strongest witch. Hope is the strongest species due to her being a tribrid but she's not the strongest witch.

The writers hype multiple witches as the strongest to much for me to even consider hope the strongest. Hope is the strongest species but not the strongest witch.

In the statement you posted about hope hype, some even called her the most powerful supernatural not witch.

Feat Wise Inadu's resurrection doesn't compare to Hope's birth causing a nexus vorti, or her rebirth as a vampire alone changing the entire atmosphere and weather by itself things other witches like Dahlia needed prep to do, Mind you Dahlia scales above Harvest Davina, seeing as she scaled above Harvest Freya, who stated by Rebekah had power she had never seen in a witch before, ever.

False. Feat wise inadu resurrection far surpass hope as she needed a power source to even resurrect and elijah wasn't even dead yet. Davina just breaking a sire line was powerful enough to resurrect 2 originals while hope birth could only resurrect mikeal. The power it take to resurrect inadu surpass hope birth.

Fraction of inadu power changed the atmosphere and can also reality warping to. Hope is nothing special in that category.

I disagree with this scale aswell, bonnie and qet's dimension creating feats alone should scale them higher than Davina, and there's no real reason to place the hollow higher than Dah or Qet in the context of power imo.

Gatekeeper davina had power to resurrect 4 Harvest girls without much difficulties and could manipulate souls of supernatural like klaus. Gatekeeper davina has all the power of the ancestors who where able to hold inadu. She's not inferior here.

There's multiple reason for rating hollow higher than qetsiyah and dahlia.

would honestly say the same for Qet, she used her own power to make the best immortality in the entire franchise, even better than the gods in legacies.
In a matter of hours she made a cure that seems to counter all forms of immortality, and her blood, not even her full power, just a tomb of her blood, is compared to a celestial event, a nexus vorti, that scales to her raw power.

Silas immortality is not the best, lucien also has immortality on that level as he had no weakness beside reversal spell and that is something that would also work on silas to.

In a matter of minutes inadu countered nature's loophole and also created an entire species. Inadu simply can't create nexus vorti like other witches when here here existence passively drains magic from any living source.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

I think the point of hope is she's the strongest vampire, witch and werewolf all in one package. Her birth of a tribrid created a pretty powerful and unique looking storm. Also when super squad went against her magic was pretty impressive there as well. If Hope didn't have superior magic to any witch she wouldn't be the most powerful being. An op witch would simply ko her and that's that. In order for her to even have that claim she has to be dominate in all aspects. Immortality imo doesn't relate to overall power. For example I would never put Klaus above Qetsiyah because she would stomp him.

Hope physically dominated Aurora and she was able to ragdoll ken. The birth of tribrid buffs her stats massively in all aspects. It's not like she has anti feats as a witch she literally dominated against super squad using magic. U cant beat the most powerful being by being immortal otherwise we minds well out silas top dog. Hope is an unparalleled werewolf, witch and vampire. Why else would becoming a tribrid allow her to stomp a vampire significantly older? She beat Aurora easier than a fookin beast would xD

@Danny33wise

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Hope is the only hard disagree on my end about any witch having more raw magic. No vampire in the series would handle Aurora like that. There are vampires that would almost do her like that but Lucien without even having the serum was able to physically restrain kol.. Hope has no anti feats and simply being immortal wouldn't allow her to be the most powerful. You can be immortal and get bullied. When I look at most powerful beings in looking at a would this character ragdoll this character. The shunka (werewolf eater) isn't immortal but it treated hope like a puppy when she was in her werewolf form. This makes it far superior to most if not all vampires. When it comes to power I don't factor immortality I go if these characters fight would this character get tossed around. You can be more powerful than somebody and be easier to kill

 

[Alsotime]

Silas came very early in tvd so they might have not known the answer to his immortality but in TO stuff like reversal spell where people with knowledge on said the spell they want to remove can actually do that with enough magic and lucien and freya proved that much.

In TVD there were immortality weakeaning spells akin to what Bonnie was doing to Klaus and still even with that as a known fact Silas was still thought of as completely unkillable to a T, all the forms of immortality that get reversed in TO pale in utter comparison to Qet’s spell, Originals were outright said to be inferior, and the immortality reversal spell had already been attempted three seasons before Silas was even shown on the show so it was clearly something the mystic fall gang had known of already.

Silas immortality is not the best, lucien also has immortality on that level as he had no weakness beside reversal spell and that is something that would also work on silas to.

The Immortal Reversing Spell would not have worked on Silas, that’s a spell that only works based on the power of the person who created that Original, that’s why Esther was the one who tried to reverse the Mikaelson, and why Freya had to channel the ancestors to reverse Lucien, and seeing as Qetsiyah very much was the one to make Silas’ immortality, yet still believed the only way to counter it was the cure, you’d be hard pressed to imply that a spell made to beat an entirely different species could be used in him.

If anything that’s what makes Qetsiyah so impressive since her cure still counters various other forms of immortality beyond hers.

. Davina just breaking a sire line was powerful enough to resurrect 2 originals while hope birth could only resurrect mikeal

Her birth couldn’t only resurrect Mikael, Mikael was just the only person Davina needed to resurrect, you’re putting a limit there when that was never stated or implied in the actual setting.

Lore wise dahlia wasn't portrayed to be inferior to anyone in the series at that point in time as she was the strongest witch then.

I never said she was, I said the only witch that was said to be one of the strongest that’s outright shown to be weaker than the others is Esther.

Inadu while ina weakened state also countered nature's loophole about the lebonire blood being a weakness to her as she was later able to possess hope.

See no, Qetsiyah making a species completely indestructible by anything on earth is not the same as Inadu possessing Hope’s body so that she can’t be used to kill her, one is someone completely unbeatable by anything on earth, the other is her being a parasite because the moment.

In the statement you posted about hope hype, some even called her the most powerful supernatural not witch.

That would still scale to her witch side, all of her sides are connected, and if someone says she has the more power in her body than anyone else we had seen prior, that would be referring to magical power.

Hope is the strongest species but not the strongest witch.

Except a acolyte of the hope said that Imari was locking herself into Hope’s body because she was going to be the greatest witch the world had ever seen, mind you that was a nontribrid hope, as she was only like 7 at the time and hadnt turned or killed anyone, and we know that factually turning into the tribrid made her far far stronger than she had ever been in the series.

Gatekeeper davina had power to resurrect 4 Harvest girls without much difficulties and could manipulate souls of supernatural like klaus. Gatekeeper davina has all the power of the ancestors who where able to hold inadu. She's not inferior here

The ancestors are never implied to be stronger than Dah or Esther though, and literally revered hopes power. Also a witch being resurrected in NOLA isn’t impressive in comparison to bringing someone back from the other side due to NOLA having the ancestral realm.

Inadu is stronger given that in her weakened state she did stuff like making it rain blood,

That’s not, I don’t get why this keeps being mentioned, a small portion of Qetsiyahs 2000 year old blood in a tomb was compared to a nexus vort, yk the same thing that occurred when Hope was born and Klaus had his entire sireline unlinked, and that was just a small fraction of her power, yet Inadu made it rain blood so that’s more impressive because reasons? Like that’s not that show stopping compared to Qetsiyah scale of raw power, who mind you did everything she did in the series with Traditional Magic, not dark magic or sacrifices that were used to boost the casters power beyond where it should be.

Qetsiyah creating a cure is indeed impressive but hollow created an entire species in minutes and powered it with her death. The hollow was so strong to the point that her bones where Indestructible.

The hollow had to channel her death and the moon to make a curse that made the weakest supernatural species in the setting , I fail to see how that’s more impressive than Qetsiyah making a cure for immortality so potent that its implied to work in every immortal in the verse, or making a species that was completely immortal in every since of the word

 

[FentyBeauty]

idk if this is worth mentioning but theres this scene where josie summons lightning from the sky n i was wondering if it could give any speed upgrades in this verse

 

[Danny33wise]

In TVD there were immortality weakeaning spells akin to what Bonnie was doing to Klaus and still even with that as a known fact Silas was still thought of as completely unkillable to a T, all the forms of immortality that get reversed in TO pale in utter comparison to Qet’s spell, Originals were outright said to be inferior, and the immortality reversal spell had already been attempted three seasons before Silas was even shown on the show so it was clearly something the mystic fall gang had known of already.

This still doesn't disprove the claim on immortality reversal spell working on silas. I also don't remember anyone in tvd doing any immortality reversal spell like you claim. Bonnie never once uses such a spell, infact I remember her using an inferior dessication spell that her mom used on mikael.

Even if Bonnie had known such a spell it doesn't still mean she could do it.

The Immortal Reversing Spell would not have worked on Silas, that’s a spell that only works based on the power of the person who created that Original, that’s why Esther was the one who tried to reverse the Mikaelson, and why Freya had to channel the ancestors to reverse Lucien, and seeing as Qetsiyah very much was the one to make Silas’ immortality, yet still believed the only way to counter it was the cure, you’d be hard pressed to imply that a spell made to beat an entirely different species could be used in him.

If anything that’s what makes Qetsiyah so impressive since her cure still counters various other forms of immortality beyond hers.

Freya wasn't the one who casted lucien immortality spell but could still do the reversal spell by tapping into ancestral magic through davina. Bonnie could have done said thing if she was knowledgeable on said spell which was stated on the fandom to be esther spell so I doubt bonnie would be that knowledgeable on said spell.

Qetsiyah cure in a spell that is older than the reversal spell. We also know that esther has seen the Bennett spell and that's why she was able to create another immortality spell. Nothing contradict the fact that qetsiyah might not have known about esther creating said spell that is similar to the cure.

Her birth couldn’t only resurrect Mikael, Mikael was just the only person Davina needed to resurrect, you’re putting a limit there when that was never stated or implied in the actual setting.

You know this statement goes both ways. Hope birth being able to resurrect two originals is not a possibility here when klaus sireline was powerful enough to resurrect 2 originals and was draining him immensely. Hope birth shouldn't be above the sireline delinking spell given the scale it was.

I never said she was, I said the only witch that was said to be one of the strongest that’s outright shown to be weaker than the others is Esther.

Esther might not be an all powerful witch, but her knowledge, creativity and experience + channeling put her miles above other witches.

See no, Qetsiyah making a species completely indestructible by anything on earth is not the same as Inadu possessing Hope’s body so that she can’t be used to kill her, one is someone completely unbeatable by anything on earth, the other is her being a parasite because the moment.

Inadu making a species that is generational is simply more impressive here because she cursed an entire generation to turn to wolf and said wolf haven't been beaten yet as it is still the roaming around the earth meanwhile silas is gone. This shows the scale of inadu spell is more impressive than what qetsiyah did.

Inadu scaling above qetsiyah is not questionable, it is an irreversible fact.

That would still scale to her witch side, all of her sides are connected, and if someone says she has the more power in her body than anyone else we had seen prior, that would be referring to magical power.

Lot of witches have been called powerful by the author of this series and they have feat to back it up. Hope lack feat compared to shunned davina level and am suppose to believe she's the strongest witch in existence. I doubt that.

Except a acolyte of the hope said that Imari was locking herself into Hope’s body because she was going to be the greatest witch the world had ever seen, mind you that was a nontribrid hope, as she was only like 7 at the time and hadnt turned or killed anyone, and we know that factually turning into the tribrid made her far far stronger than she had ever been in the series.

This statement can be interpreted in other ways. Hope can be the greatest witch because she is immortal and has the potential to surpass everyone but that potential wasn't explored well in legacies. If inadu had remained in hope body then hope would have already been the death of all supernatural due to inadu knowing more stuff than hope and being an anomaly among witches.

The ancestors are never implied to be stronger than Dah or Esther though, and literally revered hopes power. Also a witch being resurrected in NOLA isn’t impressive in comparison to bringing someone back from the other side due to NOLA having the ancestral realm.

The ancestors being weaker than esther and dahlia is a laughable claim bro. Said ancestors could have killed the mikaelsons easily if not for the rule that the ancestors can't do much outside of the cemetery and that's why they needed regent and all those shit. The ancestors have feat like:

• Creating an upgraded original with their power without the need to channel. Esther needed to channel sun and white oak to do said feat.

• The ancestors getting angry when Vincent planned to make davina the body on all ancestral magic caused a heavy storm.

• No witch in this series have also shown the capability to manipulate souls the way davina with all ancestral magic.

• The ancestors have feat like easily shaking new Orleans and pulling out a dagger from kol and also holding inadu.

Davina is gonna be scaling to lot of their feat as by no means does this series imply both esther and dahlia are above davina as the gatekeeper.

Bringing someone back from the otherside isn't any hard feat for davina when she wasn't gatekeeper, I don't see what you are trying to imply here.

That’s not, I don’t get why this keeps being mentioned, a small portion of Qetsiyahs 2000 year old blood in a tomb was compared to a nexus vort

All nexus vorti aren't equal to one another. Qetsiyah nexus vorti is based on assumption as by no means do we know If it is equal or superior to the ones that happened in TO. Inadu doesn't need a nexus vorti to prove her power given that the celestial event she created during her death to cursed different generation is still the most impressive celestial even in this series and said curse can be genetically transferred to a baby.

Inadu using dark magic doesn't change a thing as she only did that due to her being weak since elijah didn't fully die. Dark magic can also be a form of innate magic than can be learned since davina knows how to channel dark magic from her emotions (taught by ariane).

The hollow had to channel her death and the moon to make a curse that made the weakest supernatural species in the setting , I fail to see how that’s more impressive than Qetsiyah making a cure for immortality so potent that its implied to work in every immortal in the verse, or making a species that was completely immortal in every since of the word

The weakest supernatural that could still murder vampires and also kill them with a bite is not weak. The hollow cause also affected biology and it is genetic. The scale is more impressive than qetsiyah.

The cure can not work on dahlia connective magic immortality nor would it work on witches who uses ageing spell to not get old and it is also questionable if it would work on hope. So qetsiyah immortality spell is not potent enough to work on witch.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Lmao we're not gunna get anywhere

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

idk if this is worth mentioning but theres this scene where josie summons lightning from the sky n i was wondering if it could give any speed upgrades in this verse

I don't think it would be useable

 

[ByArrow]

What if we scale everyone equally and say they're probably stronger than others?

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Yes

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

There's too much to interpretation. There's no answer to strongest witch

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Tho tbh I was already planning on doing that got kinda side tracked

 

[Alsotime]

This still doesn't disprove the claim on immortality reversal spell working on silas. I also don't remember anyone in tvd doing any immortality reversal spell like you claim. Bonnie never once uses such a spell, infact I remember her using an inferior dessication spell that her mom used on mikael.

You don't have any proof said spell would work on him either though, its an assumption that isn't supported by anything in the story, and as such shouldn't be taken at face value.
Also you remember incorrectly, Bonnie didn't use an inferior version of the desiccation spell used on Mikael, she channeled 100 witches and began overpowering his immortality, this was the plan made by elijah, who stated to Elena in Season 3 that witches with enough power can kill vampires.

Freya wasn't the one who casted lucien immortality spell but could still do the reversal spell by tapping into ancestral magic through davina.

I stated that? Also Freya's blood was used as a conduit to the spell, it's something that only she could cast because she as a esther's daughter is a loophole to the og spell or any spell made by Esther.

You know this statement goes both ways. Hope birth being able to resurrect two originals is not a possibility here when klaus sireline was powerful enough to resurrect 2 originals and was draining him immensely. Hope birth shouldn't be above the sireline delinking spell given the scale it was.

Its not above or below it, they are literally the same in scale, except one was caused by a baby being born, and the other was caused by a thousand year old link being unsevered.

Lot of witches have been called powerful by the author of this series and they have feat to back it up. Hope lack feat compared to shunned davina level and am suppose to believe she's the strongest witch in existence. I doubt that.

Hope definitely has feats to back it up, she has the most feats even.
She used a spell that only Harvest Davina had enough magic to do, at the age of seven
She, at the age of seven, restored an originals shattered mind, but DJ, another vastly powerful witch, admitting to not being able to turn their humanity back on because she lacked that kind of power.
As a plus, she scales above Esther, Freya, and Dahlia just based off of Dahlia's on confessions.

Esther might not be an all powerful witch, but her knowledge, creativity and experience + channeling put her miles above other witches.

Other no name witches, shes by far the weakest when it comes to the strongest witches of all time, thats not even a dicussion.

Inadu making a species that is generational is simply more impressive here because she cursed an entire generation to turn to wolf and said wolf haven't been beaten yet as it is still the roaming around the earth meanwhile silas is gone. This shows the scale of inadu spell is more impressive than what qetsiyah did.

Lol no it isn't, the species in question were mortal and therefore could have kids, therefore their kids would be born the same thing, who knows what Immortals could have done because Qetsiyah decided to lock them both in a tomb for the rest of their life, and no Qetsiyah making immortals that Nature itself had no way killing despite having ways to kill every og, hope mikaelson, gods, and even Inadu herself, is far far far more impressive than Inadu making by feats the weakest supernatural species in the ENTIRE setting.

This statement can be interpreted in other ways. Hope can be the greatest witch because she is immortal and has the potential to surpass everyone but that potential wasn't explored well in legacies. If inadu had remained in hope body then hope would have already been the death of all supernatural due to inadu knowing more stuff than hope and being an anomaly among witches.

It can't actually, this was before we knew hope could even turn and become the hybrid, and given that Michael Narduuci had referred to the season being about having a seven year old who was the most powerful witch in the world and the side effects of that, it clearly was referring to her magical power period.

• Creating an upgraded original with their power without the need to channel. Esther needed to channel sun and white oak to do said feat.

They had to use Freya's blood for said spell, mind you Lucien was still weak to white oak, and sunlight so it's definitely still linked to the spell.

• The ancestors getting angry when Vincent planned to make davina the body on all ancestral magic caused a heavy storm.

Ok? That's not impressive in the grandscheme of things

• No witch in this series have also shown the capability to manipulate souls the way davina with all ancestral magic.

The necromancer.

• The ancestors have feat like easily shaking new Orleans and pulling out a dagger from kol and also holding inadu.

Dahlia made a storm across the entire city, so don't see how a group of dead witches combining all of their power mind you, to shake said city, would be any more impressive that Dahlia's feat at all.

All nexus vorti aren't equal to one another. Qetsiyah nexus vorti is based on assumption as by no means do we know If it is equal or superior to the ones that happened in TO.

Citation for this, if you don't have one we have to assume that they are all the same.

Inadu doesn't need a nexus vorti to prove her power given that the celestial event she created during her death to cursed different generation is still the most impressive celestial even in this series and said curse can be genetically transferred to a baby.

CItation for this as well, Inadu didn't make a celestial event when she died, she used herself being killed and the moon to make the werewolf curse, no where is it ever stated that it caused a nexus vorti or a celestial event of any kind whatsoever, and stating it did requires proof

Inadu using dark magic doesn't change a thing as she only did that due to her being weak since elijah didn't fully die. Dark magic can also be a form of innate magic than can be learned since davina knows how to channel dark magic from her emotions (taught by ariane).

Inadu specifically used sacrificial magic... magic that channels peoples deaths, in order to make herself stronger, she wasn't simply tapping into her emotions.

The weakest supernatural that could still murder vampires and also kill them with a bite is not weak. The hollow cause also affected biology and it is genetic. The scale is more impressive than qetsiyah.

Werewolves are only genetic because they are mortals and can therefore have kids, who go on to inherent their dna which would include being a wolf.
The best bet they have against vampires is to bite them and hope they don't snap their neck and kill them, mind you the bite doesn't even work in their human form unless they have a moonlight ring, something Esther invented, otherwise they would have to wait until a full moon, which would then turn them into an animal, for that part of their power to even work, and thats only viable to them for like 10 hours?
Name one actual strong normal werewolf in the show? Jed? All the actually useful wolves in tvd are either part vampire, or enhanced from Hayley's marriage to Jackson, which made the werewolves an actually useful faction.

Qetsiyah's immortals can't die to anything, they have psychic abilties beyond dahlia, and are able to torture an original for days from a distance to the point of almost unknowing comitting suicide, you have to be hard pressed to say that these two species are anywhere near comparable.

The cure can not work on dahlia connective magic immortality nor would it work on witches who uses ageing spell to not get old

One this is never proven to be true or untrue in the show, and seeing as the cure negates vampire healing which is magical and can affect a characters biology one could definitely make that argument, but they don't have too because the form of immortality Dahlia had wasn't linked to her biology, she put herself in a cryogenic statis for a hundred years to accumalate power, gets one year of immortal, then has to do it over again, it's akin more to a self inficted curse, and isn't a normal form of immortally typically shown in the show (IE Vampires, Gods, True Immortals, and more)

it is also questionable if it would work on hope. So qetsiyah immortality spell is not potent enough to work on witch.

It's not questionable if it would work on hope, her immortality comes from vampirism, the cure can reverse vampirism, its that simple

What if we scale everyone equally and say they're probably stronger than others?

Yeah, ATP every strong witch upscaling from Esther and being relative to each other seems the safest bet.

 

[Alsotime]

Also how we are we going to be scaling Gemini Leader Kai? Feat wise he also has celestial event level magic

 

[Danny33wise]

You don't have any proof said spell would work on him either though, its an assumption that isn't supported by anything in the story, and as such shouldn't be taken at face value.
Also you remember incorrectly, Bonnie didn't use an inferior version of the desiccation spell used on Mikael, she channeled 100 witches and began overpowering his immortality, this was the plan made by elijah, who stated to Elena in Season 3 that witches with enough power can kill vampires.

It is infact not an assumption when said spell have been said and shown to work on an immortal who had no weakness at that point in time. The spell working on silas is an clear cut fact given the mechanics on how said spell works.

Bonnie with to much power couldn't even kill klaus when he was at full strength and needed him to transform so he could be weakened.

I called both Bonnie and Abbie dessication spell weak because of the long prep time it needed compared to dahlia own which can be done without help and is absurdly fast.

I stated that? Also Freya's blood was used as a conduit to the spell, it's something that only she could cast because she as a esther's daughter is a loophole to the og spell or any spell made by Esther.

Wrong. Freya theorised that Vincent should be able to reverse the spell due to him being the one who casted it and Vincent disproves said theory by stating that it wasn't him who casted the spell but the ancestors. The whole reason they had to sacrifice davina was because she was trapped in both worlds (the living and the dead) so she could be used as a way to steal magic from the ancestors.

Freya blood was just an ingredients that the spell needed, she was never a main factor of said spell. So yeah it is not something only Freya could do, any other witch could be able to perform said feat if they did what Freya did.

Its not above or below it, they are literally the same in scale, except one was caused by a baby being born, and the other was caused by a thousand year old link being unsevered.

Well it most certainly is not above the sireline delinking spell nexus vorti. Feat and portrayer wise hope birth is below the delinking spell.

Hope definitely has feats to back it up, she has the most feats even.
She used a spell that only Harvest Davina had enough magic to do, at the age of seven
She, at the age of seven, restored an originals shattered mind, but DJ, another vastly powerful witch, admitting to not being able to turn their humanity back on because she lacked that kind of power.
As a plus, she scales above Esther, Freya, and Dahlia just based off of Dahlia's on confessions.

Child hope doing a delinking spell was indeed impressive but I wouldn't still scale her to harvest girl davina. Kol made hope performing that spell seem very easy as he only told her to use her power to Freaking unlink the knot while elijah gave davina a page of Esther book.

Hope didn't restore elijah's mind, freya was the one who casted the spell and also sent hope inside elijah's mind, all hope needed to do was scream and creat a powerful surge of power.

Hope scaling above freya and esther is a fact but she's certainly not above dahlia. She's most likely equal to dahlia at best.

Lol no it isn't, the species in question were mortal and therefore could have kids, therefore their kids would be born the same thing, who knows what Immortals could have done because Qetsiyah decided to lock them both in a tomb for the rest of their life, and no Qetsiyah making immortals that Nature itself had no way killing despite having ways to kill every og, hope mikaelson, gods, and even Inadu herself, is far far far more impressive than Inadu making by feats the weakest supernatural species in the ENTIRE setting.

Which is still a generational curse. Said immortals can be killed as we've recently found out via reversal spell. The scale of inadu curse is above qetsiyah immortality and inadu species can't be removed from the earth like the others.

It can't actually, this was before we knew hope could even turn and become the hybrid, and given that Michael Narduuci had referred to the season being about having a seven year old who was the most powerful witch in the world and the side effects of that, it clearly was referring to her magical power period.

And theirs also statement of dahlia, davina and other who have been stated to be the most powerful witches to by the author. I can't honestly take the author statements to serious compared to feat and scaling that the series have.

They had to use Freya's blood for said spell, mind you Lucien was still weak to white oak, and sunlight so it's definitely still linked to the spell.

Lucien was not weak to white oak lol, when has this series ever implied that? Sunlight is a general weakness to vampire but doesn't kill an og or an upgraded og. Freya blood was just an ingredients to the spell and that's why she was able to create a dagger that could possibly work on Marcel.

The necromancer

Not a witch.

Dahlia made a storm across the entire city, so don't see how a group of dead witches combining all of their power mind you, to shake said city, would be any more impressive that Dahlia's feat at all.

Not all the ancestors hate davina for you to claim that it was all their power. The ancestors made it rain caused, caused elijah and Vincent to bleed, snap elijah's neck and davina with said power resurrected four girls. The feat is most definitely above what dahlia did.

Citation for this, if you don't have one we have to assume that they are all the same.

Sireline delinking spell > hope birth.

CItation for this as well, Inadu didn't make a celestial event when she died, she used herself being killed and the moon to make the werewolf curse, no where is it ever stated that it caused a nexus vorti or a celestial event of any kind whatsoever, and stating it did requires proof

It was stated that inadu cursed her people and bound them to the moon by channeling the powe of her death. That's exactly what at celestial event is and we have fear to prove this like:

• Esther going to the place of her first death in mystic fall to boost her power (celestial event)

• The Bennett witches who where burnt to death caused a celestial event.

• Bonnie channeling the celestial event of 100 dead Bennett witches.

Their are many more of said feat and what inadu did match the definition of a celestial event. I don't know how hard that is to get if you understand the lore of this series. It not every time they need to tell you celestial event before you know what is being done.

Inadu specifically used sacrificial magic... magic that channels peoples deaths, in order to make herself stronger, she wasn't simply tapping into her emotions.

Inadu needed such means due to elijah not dying finish which hinder her from coming back with her full power and an indestructible body. I also think it is in inadu nature to channel stuff like that due to her being able to channel nature around her passively.

Werewolves are only genetic because they are mortals and can therefore have kids, who go on to inherent their dna which would include being a wolf.
The best bet they have against vampires is to bite them and hope they don't snap their neck and kill them, mind you the bite doesn't even work in their human form unless they have a moonlight ring, something Esther invented, otherwise they would have to wait until a full moon, which would then turn them into an animal, for that part of their power to even work, and thats only viable to them for like 10 hours?
Name one actual strong normal werewolf in the show? Jed? All the actually useful wolves in tvd are either part vampire, or enhanced from Hayley's marriage to Jackson, which made the werewolves an actually useful faction.

Qetsiyah's immortals can't die to anything, they have psychic abilties beyond dahlia, and are able to torture an original for days from a distance to the point of almost unknowing comitting suicide, you have to be hard pressed to say that these two species are anywhere near comparable.

It still biology to be honest. What you explained is definitely genetics but said genetics affects their biology.

Mason lock wood have feat to launching Damon with a punch, Mason have feat of tackling newbie caroline, Tyler while not fully transformed bite kai and Tyler can over power Damon while not fully transform and their many more.

Wolf also have better sence of smell than vampires. Wolves arent stronger than vampires both they also have advantages over vampires.

Qetsiyah immortality can be countered via reversal spell and that fact haven't been proven wrong since said spe was created by Esther who specifically made it to counter stuff like that. I also never said wolf where comparable to silas I said the scale of inadu species beat qetsiyah.

One this is never proven to be true or untrue in the show, and seeing as the cure negates vampire healing which is magical and can affect a characters biology one could definitely make that argument, but they don't have too because the form of immortality Dahlia had wasn't linked to her biology, she put herself in a cryogenic statis for a hundred years to accumalate power, gets one year of immortal, then has to do it over again, it's akin more to a self inficted curse, and isn't a normal form of immortally typically shown in the show (IE Vampires, Gods, True Immortals, and more)

So cure can't counter it. It like saying pouring the cure on a dark object would completely nullify it. The difference between witches and vampires are that witches don't have any supernatural genetics change inside their body for the cure to work. The cure being inside a witch body wouldn't do shit. And if I remember correctly, the hollow have the best immortality in this wiki.

Yeah, ATP every strong witch upscaling from Esther and being relative to each other seems the safest bet.

Which strong witches upscale from Esther. I say the best bet would be to officially grade the after a deep consideration. My opinion is still:

Inadu (higher) > Gatekeeper davina (higher) > Qetsiyah ~ dahlia (planet level) > Hope (planet level) > Bonnie with celestial event (planet level) > kai gemini leader ~ linked Freya (large city level) > Esther (City level to large city level with channeling) > Harvest davina (City level).

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

My personal biased ranking

Hope > Inadu > Bonnie with power of 100 witches > Qetsiyah > Dahlia > Davina with harvest powers ~ Dark Josie ~ Esther ~ Traveler Spell Kai

 

[Danny33wise]

My personal biased ranking

Hope > Inadu > Bonnie with power of 100 witches > Qetsiyah > Dahlia > Davina with harvest powers ~ Dark Josie ~ Esther ~ Traveler Spell Kai

Cool but you aren't using the strongest version davina here.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Cool but you aren't using the strongest version davina here.

Im too lazy to watch those episodes so I don't remember and am I the only one who thinks dark Josie was strong

 

[Danny33wise]

Im too lazy to watch those episodes so I don't remember and am I the only one who thinks dark Josie was strong

Lol your aren't the only one. I also really love dark josie but I can't fully power scale her because my knowledge on legacies isn't much which is due to my annoyance with some stuff that happened in the series.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

This is just straight up not normal

 

[Alsotime]

t is infact not an assumption when said spell have been said and shown to work on an immortal who had no weakness at that point in time.

It is in fact an assumption when said spell only worked because of it was powered by the people who made that specific form of immortality, and casted by someone whose blood is a loophole to that specific form of immortality, so unless you have an actual scene or statement that implies it could work on silas, it can't.

Bonnie with to much power couldn't even kill klaus when he was at full strength and needed him to transform so he could be weakened.

She was killing him, she was just also dying from the amount of power she was channeling.

I called both Bonnie and Abbie dessication spell weak because of the long prep time it needed compared to dahlia own which can be done without help and is absurdly fast.

My point isn't if Abby's desiccation spell is strong or not, I said that what Bonnie did quite literally was not the same as it.

Freya blood was just an ingredients that the spell needed, she was never a main factor of said spell. So yeah it is not something only Freya could do, any other witch could be able to perform said feat if they did what Freya did.

Freya's blood is a weakness to upgraded ogs, its the reason the only weapon on earth that can kill them is literally crafted from it.

KEELIN: Do you really think that weapon could kill Marcel?FREYA: It took some time, my blood, Esther's magic, Marcel's venom and the ashes of Lucien Castle. Combined, it will be powerful enough to kill him.KEELIN: So, we're done, then? Yeah, I go back to my life, you go back to yours?

Well it most certainly is not above the sireline delinking spell nexus vorti. Feat and portrayer wise hope birth is below the delinking spell.

No it isn't, you just keep trying to push like it is and I don't see why, so unless you have an actual statement or scene to prove your point drop it.

Child hope doing a delinking spell was indeed impressive but I wouldn't still scale her to harvest girl davina. Kol made hope performing that spell seem very easy as he only told her to use her power to Freaking unlink the knot while elijah gave davina a page of Esther book.

Kol made the feat seem like something that would normally take an entire coven to do, and it was one of esther's most complex spells and hope did it at the age of seven.

It was stated that inadu cursed her people and bound them to the moon by channeling the powe of her death. That's exactly what at celestial event is and we have fear to prove this like:

No that is not what a celestial event is what, the celestial event was the full moon, which Inadu channeled, you trying to imply she caused a celestial event is literal headcanon, and no Inadu using dark magic to channel her death isn't the same as a celestial event either, it's her using sacrificial magic, which only proves the point that she isn't naturally that strong.

Esther going to the place of her first death in mystic fall to boost her power (celestial event)

• The Bennett witches who where burnt to death caused a celestial event.

• Bonnie channeling the celestial event of 100 dead Bennett witches.

Show the statements or scenes for all of these and Ill agree, and the last point is espesically incorrect if you are referring to hellfire, Bonnie wasn't channeling the celestial event of her ancestors being dead, like youre just casually throwing that term out for some reason when its never stated in any of these scenes, Bonnie channeled her ancestors spirits from peace, because of her connection to them as bennett witches, it didn't cause a celestial event, and it wasn't because of a celestial event, thats just your headcanon.

Mason lock wood have feat to launching Damon with a punch, Mason have feat of tackling newbie caroline, Tyler while not fully transformed bite kai and Tyler can over power Damon while not fully transform and their many more.

Wolf also have better sence of smell than vampires. Wolves arent stronger than vampires both they also have advantages over vampires.

Mason lockwood getting a few punches on Damon doesn't make him relative to him, nor a threat to most of a vampires in the setting, Damon has feats of evading blows from hybrids, and fighting stefan (who has literally killed hybrids, who in feats, statements, and power scale far above any normal werewolf)

He tackled a newbie vamp, a vampire at their literally weakest point of existence, and you bring that point up as a point in the werewolf sides favor? Like what?
If anything Tyler is an outlier because werewolves are pushed in the series to be far far weaker than vamps until the full moon, which is why they get absolutely slaughtered in every real standoff they have against another species.

Also once again, Werewolves cant even use their bite in their human forms unless they have a moonlight ring, so the one real thing they have to even combat vamps is typically restricted to just full moons, which absolutely sucks.

Inadu needed such means due to elijah not dying finish which hinder her from coming back with her full power and an indestructible body. I also think it is in inadu nature to channel stuff like that due to her being able to channel nature around her passively

No, she needed such means because thats the type of magic she was raised on, she was born from power from others, so she powers herself by sacrificing others, its dark magic and its the reason she's so strong, its not raw power.

Qetsiyah immortality can be countered via reversal spell and that fact haven't been proven wrong since said spe was created by Esther who specifically made it to counter stuff like that.

She made it counter vampirism, Silas isn't the same type of immortal as originals, nor does his spell have the caveat of being vulnerable to Esther's magic or her bloodline because it wasn't made by her.

This utterly pales in comparison to the cure, which we know would not only work on Silas, but also ogs, and enhanced ogs, theres a clear difference in scale.

So cure can't counter it. It like saying pouring the cure on a dark object would completely nullify it. The difference between witches and vampires are that witches don't have any supernatural genetics change inside their body for the cure to work. The cure being inside a witch body wouldn't do shit.

Honestly this was never a point I cared to argue about and had really nothing to do with any of my points so I don't see any reason in debating this topic further.

Lucien was not weak to white oak lol, when has this series ever implied that? Sunlight is a general weakness to vampire but doesn't kill an og or an upgraded og.

Sunlight being a weakness to him as a vampire means it was channeled during his spell.... thats why vampires are weak to it, because Nature made it hurt them since it was used in the spell to make them

Not a witch.

He absolutely is, and as a fan of the wiki you'd know that he's listed as one on there.

Hope scaling above freya and esther is a fact but she's certainly not above dahlia. She's most likely equal to dahlia at best.

Freya in raw power is relative to Dahlia, they are both firstborns and therefore have the same devasting power, for Hope to be stated to have more than just that power because of her status as a tribrid, she would have to be above Dahlia, at least in pure magic power.

And theirs also statement of dahlia, davina and other who have been stated to be the most powerful witches to by the author. I can't honestly take the author statements to serious compared to feat and scaling that the series have.

I know I started replying out of order but I really wanted to reply to this last (well second last but the next topic isn't really a rebuttal) because the notion was funny to me.

Davina was called the most powerful witch in season 1, that was before Freya and Dah were introduced, when Rebekah meet Freya, she affirmed she had never expeirenced magic as strong as hers before, so that makes the simple scaling chain of Slumber Freya > Harvest Davina.

But Dahlia is known to be generally stronger and more skilled than Freya so Dahlia > Slumber Freya > Harvest Davina.

But Dahlia is dead, Freya loses her slumber boost, and Davina doesn't have harvest magic by the time of season 4 when Hope is stated to be the strongest witch in the world, lets keep that in mind.
Inadu has a statement of being one of the strongest witches of all time, which scales her above anyone without that title like say Markos or Vincent.

But she was on the planet earth and even at her peak during season 4, which was when Hope got her statement of being the strongest witch in the world, as was Bonnie, so that means that Hope in pure magical power at seven years old was > Bonnie and Inadu, who intentionally stole her body because of how strong her magic was then, and how strong it would be when she got older.

These statements all existing don't clash because they create a very clear chain if you look at them at face value.

Bonnie with power of 100 witches > Qetsiyah > Dahlia > Davina with harvest powers ~ Dark Josie ~ Esther ~ Traveler Spell Kai

I scale Expression Bonnie above Bonnie with the power of 100 witches, and I scale Traveler Spell Kai higher too, its just so much, we need a scaling blog with scenes and quotes from the series to really have a concrete place of where they all stand.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

I scale Expression Bonnie above Bonnie with the power of 100 witches, and I scale Traveler Spell Kai higher too, its just so much, we need a scaling blog with scenes and quotes from the series to really have a concrete place of where they all stand.

Important Read

The thing is all we need is a distinction of an abnormal high tier witch.
@Danny33wise @GFArrow

Witches are not simple. For example I could argue Dark Josie is superior to the rest simply because she had unique powers. For example, she collapsed a jail cell and levitated herself and the ground into the sky. (Nobody has done this)

In that same clip, she snapped her fingers and changed her entire attire (Wtf?)

And in other scene she dead ass flew/levitated.

See the problem? Witches aren't simple. Qetsiyah has blue fire do I rank her over other witches? Dahlia can crack her knuckles and kill people without looking at them. Inadu is just a whole package of unique feats.

So my solution is to simply make a distinction with Witch hierarchy. There should only be 3. Basic witch, powerful witch (Vincent), and one of the strongest witches in history.

The latter is where everyone here we talked about goes. Davina has an earthquake feat around the same tier as Inadu's storm despite Inadu being far superior narratively.

So there should just be an explanation on witch hierarchy. This is where abnormal feats should be brought up to place the witch in "one of the strongest witches in history."

Once a witch is proven to be in said tier, we can simply scale them to Inadu feat. especially since it's not even her full power it was just the consequence of bits of her power being in close proximity so scaling anybody to the feat isn't even saying they are even or stronger than Inadu.

"As one of the most powerful witches in history[insert blog?] Should at least be comparable to this feat of the hollow that was created due to just parts of her power being in close proximity"

A statement like that wouldn't even be saying they are stronger than Inadu but should at least be comfortable to the feat itself. and again Davina has a similar so feat whose narratively weaker.

So there just needs a thread explanation or some sort of article blog on how we should classify strongest witches. That is where people prove a witch is a "strongest witches in history." Thus scale to feat.

If there's no direct statement like there is for Esther, Dahlia, Inadu, Qet, then we simply use their feats as backup.

Which must include

•Fodderizing average or power witches

•And having unique powers to yourself.

Which Davina Harvest and Dark Josie can qualify