TSSDK: Some Upgrades and Downgrades

[Metalballrun]

Why will it be country instead of continental?

Because El Dorado's destruction will be caused by Leon Cromwell and Yellow Primordial Jaune fighting each other, not individually.
So the results of the calculation will be halved since there were two of them that would contribute to the destruction.
Calculation 1 has 642.95 Teratons. Half of that is 321.475 Teratons.
Calculation 2 has 919.21 Teratons. Half of that is 459.605 Teratons.
Both calcs halved would fall under Large Country.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ehhh, still in favor of High 6-B, likely 6-A.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Which calc are we going for?

 

[Metalballrun]

Not sure since both are valid and there doesn't seem to be a consensus among the comments.
Should just wait for Elizhaa I guess, then wait if what everyone decides that should be applied.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Hey, I appreciate the charitablity and coherentness of relpies. So, hopefully this will wrap everything up.
[SPOILER = REPLY 3]

Rimuru is stated to be comparable, or actually stronger than Diablo. Diablo is, in turn, comparable to, or actually stronger than Carrera, aka Yellow Primordial Jaune, who can destroy El Dorado in her fight with Leon. I don't have access to the novels right now, but we know that all of these are stated in them.
What I wrote in the OP was just a shortened version.
As for Hinata using Mathematician, that has more to do with speed anyways than AP. You have to give more context, as both of them were trying hard to neutralize each other without killing the other. Their AP would still scale following this logic.

I don't have a problem with the statement. I agree they should be able to destroy El Dorado. It was some so how that going to be achieved. Knowing Jaune, it would likely be through Nuclear magic. Which even if Rimuru or someone else has similar energy levels doesn't mean they could replicate the feat.

Mathmatician was brought up because of the predictions, not AP.

Tbh, if we're not gonna scale Rimuru, then we shouldn't scale everyone else. Ruminas compares to him, Granbell scales to Ruminas, and so on.
We all know that the Continental rating, as of now at least, hinges on the statement of Leon and Carrera being capable of destroying El Dorado as a side-effect of their battle. If no one scales, then this should be dropped entirely as both of these people barely have any feats as of Volume 11.
If the other people agree then we should drop the Continental rating for everyone.

I don't mind it being continental. You kinda respond to my grievances later.

For the same reason that we lack an actual calculation of a feat performed, but rather a calculation of a destruction two beings were stated to be capable of causing should they fight together, lead to me compiling several reasons as of why the others would scale, which I already said in this thread. We do have explicit statements that Rimuru in fact is comparable to Jaune, which leads to everyone else scaling. Albeit I understand that we have yet to see a continental attack (which I believe is your concern), so this is pretty much why we have this CRT.

This is all fine and no ot was the of lacking a calculation. I think calcs create more contention anyway.

Yes, but this doesn't really disprove my scaling. In fact, the last one supports Hinata scaling because of her Arts. We don't really disagree with this sentiment.

The arts powered spirit particles sure. I can go into this more but its just too cumbersome at this point.

 

[Metalballrun]

Yeah some of these can wait another day.
Speed has issues too, but the changes that the other volumes would provide would wait when the fan translations catch up.
For now, we just wait for the calculation to be accepted. And what the others would say about my suggestion on dividing its results into two.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Yeah some of these can wait another day.
Speed has issues too, but the changes that the other volumes would provide would wait when the fan translations catch up.
For now, we just wait for the calculation to be accepted. And what the others would say about my suggestion on dividing its results into two.

Alright.

 

[Metalballrun]

I also added that base form should be "At least Large Mountain level+, likely higher" due to Rimuru saying his aura was just as overwhelming if not more so than Charybdis, although I'm unsure if that warrants making him more powerful.
I saw a post recently in tensura reddit about how base Karion is 64-100 times more powerful than Shizue but for the life of me I cannot find where that statements that backs that up came from aside from the ones I'm using to justify Transformed Karion's Island level rating.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I also added that base form should be "At least Large Mountain level+, likely higher" due to Rimuru saying his aura was just as overwhelming if not more so than Charybdis, although I'm unsure if that warrants making him more powerful.
I saw a post recently in tensura reddit about how base Karion is 64-100 times more powerful than Shizue but for the life of me I cannot find where that statements that backs that up came from aside from the ones I'm using to justify Transformed Karion's Island level rating.

Aura is just the effect naturally produced through the leakage of magicules. It lets one gauge another strength, assuming their reserves are relative to their output. A strong enough aura can easily kill humans and even monsters. It's all based on density though, not just amount. So you may be able to say that higher density may constitute towards strength but it's definitely not inherent. Its all gonna depend on how many assumptions you are willing to make since there isn't a concrete answer. I think I know which Reddit post you are referring to, I can look its really worth our time.

 

[Metalballrun]

Aura is just the effect naturally produced through the leakage of magicules. It lets one gauge another strength, assuming their reserves are relative to their output. A strong enough aura can easily kill humans and even monsters. It's all based on density though, not just amount. So you may be able to say that higher density may constitute towards strength but it's definitely not inherent. Its all gonna depend on how many assumptions you are willing to make since there isn't a concrete answer.

I am aware, which is why we still treat this as a case-by-case basis and still refer to what statements we can gather from the novels.
Density is still relative to amount, and not only depends on the output a monster is intentionally doing, but also in the environment (easier to make your aura dense when you're in closed space like Sealed Cave or the Labyrinth).

In this case, these are the statements I was referring to (from Volume 3 Chapter). It's an aura vs aura comparison between two overpowering creatures, one of which doesn't have the intelligence to actively hold back its aura for whatever reason, so the comparison stands and we're not within magicule vs arts territory.

Between the name Carillon and the obvious friendliness they shared, I could guess the identity of this wild-looking man projecting his inner strength in the quiet. He was nowhere near as large as Charybdis, but he presented exactly the sort of overpowering aura—if not more of one, like he'd blow you away with a thought.

It's a direct comparison towards Charybdis and actually refers to Karion projecting his inner strength to his aura.
We're aware that Karion is considerably powerful among Demon Lord Breeds, as he's pretty much used as a metric/benchmark so often when comparing characters' strength in-universe (along with Frey but to a lesser extent).

Of course, since as of now I don't have the time to browse through the novels to find more proof that base Karion is comparable to Charybdis or otherwise, so I believe I'm being conservative by just putting "likely higher" on his AP. Since the AP page states that:

Likely​

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable. This term should be used sparingly.

I think I know which Reddit post you are referring to, I can look its really worth our time.

I saw that the post is still using the flawed scaling in between Ifrit/Sky Dragon/Colossus/Beretta so its multipliers are already skewed, but even disregarding that, some of the post still implies Karion is way more powerful than what I gathered in this CRT. Thing is I don't really remember anything in the novels about what that post was saying.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I am aware, which is why we still treat this as a case-by-case basis and still refer to what statements we can gather from the novels.
Density is still relative to amount, and not only depends on the output a monster is intentionally doing, but also in the environment (easier to make your aura dense when you're in closed space like Sealed Cave or the Labyrinth).

Yes, I am aware that the environment plays a part in it. Seems we are in agreement on the case by case basis.

It's a direct comparison towards Charybdis and actually refers to Karion projecting his inner strength to his aura.
We're aware that Karion is considerably powerful among Demon Lord Breeds, as he's pretty much used as a metric/benchmark so often when comparing characters' strength in-universe (along with Frey but to a lesser extent).

Yeah, I have to agree its certainly intriguing but also quite odd.

I saw that the post is still using the flawed scaling in between Ifrit/Sky Dragon/Colossus/Beretta so its multipliers are already skewed, but even disregarding that, some of the post still implies Karion is way more powerful than what I gathered in this CRT. Thing is I don't really remember anything in the novels about what that post was saying

I see, thought so.

 

[Metalballrun]

So it seems that the 3/5 of peope from the calc group supports the Antarctica version. Does that make the blog valid now?

There are new things added that people should vote to agree or disagree with, or choose from, then I think this thread could be closed afterwards.

1. Which AP tier should those who scales to Leon Cromwell and Carrera be in?
   • High 6-B. The results of Elizhaa's calc would be halved to determine Leon Cromwell's AP and tier (and everyone who scales to him and Yellow Primordial), because it may have took both of them to destroy El Dorado.
   • 6-A. Because Mizari is capable of destroying Ingracia without breaking a sweat (and apparently even affect the smaller countries surrounding it), which is only slightly smaller than El Dorado based on the world map, and Carerra is as strong if not stronger than her.
   • At least High 6-B, likely 6-A. The original and safest answer.
2. Charbydis's Speed might be noted only as Attack Speed, since it doesn't really seem to be particularly fast (neither were the Megalodons, as even Gobta could dodge them). Related, should Charybdis's light beams be lightspeed or not? It is described as a beam of light, but no descriptions of its speed being light speed.
3. Karion's Base key being "At least Large Mountain level+, likely higher" due to statements from Rimuru describing his aura as overwhelming and comparable to Charybdis.
4. Charybdis's Durability should remain at Large Mountain level, or maybe lower. Her defenses primarily lies on her Magic Interference and Ultraspeed/Super Regeneration, and Treyni, who is Mountain level+ in her first key, was able to damage Charybdis even with the 1/10th of the force of her strongest attack. It might be possible for Treyni's first key to be upgraded to Large Mountain level though since she was able to harm Laplace as well, albeit this can also be just limited to her strongest attack.
5. Characters that are likely faster than Rimuru Tempest (Slime key), such as Hinata Sakaguchi (Sage key) should be At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher. Or something to that effect.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Such scale of destruction can be supported by characters of similar power stated to be capable of doing something similar, such as Mizari being stated to be capable of destroying Ingracia, another continent-sized country (that seems to be a bit smaller than El Dorado based on the world map), and the nature of Yellow Primordial's Nuclear Magic. Nuclear Magic of human wizards has been described to be on par with nuclear weapons of Earth. The Phantoms that are on Awakened Demon Lord levels have also shown the destructive capability on a continental scale (such as Pulcinella, who could destroy the Atlantis continent from Kondou's original world)

This is why I say straight up continental. If the weaker Mizari can destroy Ingracia, something only slightly smaller than Australia by herself, then there's no reason why the stronger Leon Cromwell and Yellow Primordial shouldn't be able to do the same. Personally, when they sink the continent, I don't think that's saying their combined efforts would result in it, more so just them fighting in general seriously. In the WN, it was stated that if Leon got serious, he could destroy the place.

Charbydis's Speed might be noted only as Attack Speed, since it doesn't really seem to be particularly fast (neither were the Megalodons, as even Gobta could dodge them).

What would their speed be?

Karion's Base key being "At least Large Mountain level+, likely higher" due to statements from Rimuru describing his aura as overwhelming and comparable to Charybdis.

I see.

Should Charybdis's Durability be put at Island level? Her defenses primarily lies on her Magic Interference and Ultraspeed/Super Regeneration.

It should, it was ranked Special A for a reason.

 

[Metalballrun]

Spoiler: Response

The primary reason I'm still cautious about giving an outright Continental rating is that we still don't know how Mizari would perform the feat.
Going further as a devil's advocate (to my own post no less lol), it was never specifically stated that she would destroy the literal Ingracian continent or just the capital/kingdom.
We also obviously can't scale the WN from the LN, although I suppose it's context for being the original/rought draft nonetheless.

Mizari was more terrifying than some demon lords. She wouldn’t break a sweat in destroying the Ingracia Kingdom.
[Volume 11, Chapter 4]

Although I'm still inclined towards the former, as "Kingdom" here repeatedly refers to its borders, insinuating that "Kingdom" spans the entire small continent.
Anyways, I'm just asking people's opinions about this regardless.

There are likely better scaling feats in the Empire arc, especially whenever Carrera is in action, but those are from MTLs which can really get confusing.



As for Charybdis's speed, I honestly am unsure. The Megalodons were also described to be difficult to dodge, but it was due to its size and, since it likely refers to mid to close range combat, refers more to the Tempest people's slow travel speed. Charybdis never actually dodges (or tries to) AFAIK, although Veldora lists "body slam" as one of its attacks in his journals and it does try to attack Treyni by ramming itself against them, so I dunno, I'm all ears.

Their attack speed would be Massively Hypersonic+, probably. Since Tempest Scales were described to be difficult to dodge, albeit it also has something to do with the amount (tens of thousands). I am unsure if its Light Beams would be considered light beams since it was never stated as such, but has always been described as beams of light opposed to just energy beams.



The reason I'm once again cautious about giving it an Island level durability is because monsters below that level are capable of damaging Charybdis. Even Treyni, who is only Mountain Level+ in her first key (she was able to damage Laplace however who has Large Mountain level dura though?), was described to be able to deal damage even with her strongest attack being reduced to 1/10th of its power. Just that Charybdis instantly regenerates it anyways.

According to Treyni, even Aerial Blade—the strongest elemental magic spell she had at her disposal—was reduced to only about a tenth of its natural power. Far from the deciding blow it was meant to be. It did deal some damage, but as she put it, the wounds immediately healed themselves.

The only justification I can think of for this is surface area stuff, like how a mosquito can pierce our skin, similar but of a different scale.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I still believe it's 6-A.

Everything else, neutral.

 

[Community_Gamer]

My thoughts on Charybdis are that their defense seems to be considerably lower than their attacks potency. She mainly relies on Magic Interference and Ultraspeed Regeneration. So they aren't really that tanky. Especially if Treyni can do significant damage. So maybe their AP should be higher than Large Mountain (though I'm not sure which feat they'd scale up to) but durability probably shouldn't.

 

[Metalballrun]

I've thought about Charybdis's AP myself and considered whether or not it'll be 7-C with further context.

I wasn’t kidding, though; we were really lucky we got to see Charybdis’s Tempest Scale before the Pegasus Knights showed up. The scales that didn’t quite fall in range of Glutton were causing serious damage in virtually all directions. If we took the brunt of that shot, defense just wouldn’t be possible. We’d all be mincemeat.
None of our forces took a direct hit from the scales, thankfully, but the nearby forest had been heavily damaged—or really, violently reshaped. The amount of power behind it was just ridiculous.

This is probably enough to warrant a 6-C rating if we ignore the anime scene where Shion and Ranga got hit by the Scales (which is the reason why I originally had doubts about in the first place).

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'd agree.

 

[Metalballrun]

So it seems that the 3/5 of peope from the calc group supports the Antarctica version. Does that make the blog valid now?

There are new things added that people should vote to agree or disagree with, or choose from, then I think this thread could be closed afterwards.

1. Which AP tier should those who scales to Leon Cromwell and Carrera be in?
   • High 6-B. The results of Elizhaa's calc would be halved to determine Leon Cromwell's AP and tier (and everyone who scales to him and Yellow Primordial), because it may have took both of them to destroy El Dorado.
   • 6-A. Because Mizari is capable of destroying Ingracia without breaking a sweat (and apparently even affect the smaller countries surrounding it), which is only slightly smaller than El Dorado based on the world map, and Carerra is as strong if not stronger than her.
   • At least High 6-B, likely 6-A. The original and safest answer.
2. Charbydis's Speed might be noted only as Attack Speed, since it doesn't really seem to be particularly fast (neither were the Megalodons, as even Gobta could dodge them). Related, should Charybdis's light beams be lightspeed or not? It is described as a beam of light, but no descriptions of its speed being light speed.
3. Karion's Base key being "At least Large Mountain level+, likely higher" due to statements from Rimuru describing his aura as overwhelming and comparable to Charybdis.
4. Charybdis's Durability should remain at Large Mountain level, or maybe lower. Her defenses primarily lies on her Magic Interference and Ultraspeed/Super Regeneration, and Treyni, who is Mountain level+ in her first key, was able to damage Charybdis even with the 1/10th of the force of her strongest attack. It might be possible for Treyni's first key to be upgraded to Large Mountain level though since she was able to harm Laplace as well, albeit this can also be just limited to her strongest attack.
5. Characters that are likely faster than Rimuru Tempest (Slime key), such as Hinata Sakaguchi (Sage key) should be At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher. Or something to that effect.

I edited this remaining questions for the other people, like the staff, who hasn't been able to comment on yet. I think the thread can be closed after we can all conclude on the answers for these.

 

[Elizhaa]

1. Which AP tier should those who scales to Leon Cromwell and Carrera be in?
   1. I am fine with the second and third option but I think it's more appropriate to use the 6-A option. I read ahead in the MTL volumes; in MTL volume 13, Carrera could destroy the entire Great Jura Forest with Gravity Collapse, nuclear strike magic. This feat would be a minimum of 6-A, going from the surface area of Great Jura Forest being larger than Leon's country. Great Jura Forest is referred to as the entire territory multiple times such as in the first Walpurgis where Rimuru got the entire territory; so I think it is the country. Other people powerscaled to her so I think the feat would be fine.
2. Charbydis's Speed might be noted only as Attack Speed, since it doesn't really seem to be particularly fast (neither were the Megalodons, as even Gobta could dodge them). Related, should Charybdis's light beams be lightspeed or not?It is described as a beam of light, but no descriptions of its speed being light speed.
   1. I think no. More properties of light would need to be shown or stated to prove the beam of light is lightspeed.
3. Charbydis's Speed might be noted only as Attack Speed, since it doesn't really seem to be particularly fast (neither were the Megalodons, as even Gobta could dodge them). Related, should Charybdis's light beams be lightspeed or not?It is described as a beam of light, but no descriptions of its speed being light speed.
   1. I am kind of neutral. Charybdis is kind of mindless so it is not unfeasible that she wouldn't go all out from lack of intelligence.
4. Charybdis's Durability should remain at Large Mountain level, or maybe lower. Her defenses primarily lies on her Magic Interference and Ultraspeed/Super Regeneration, and Treyni, who is Mountain level+ in her first key, was able to damage Charybdis even with the 1/10th of the force of her strongest attack. It might be possible for Treyni's first key to be upgraded to Large Mountain levelthough since she was able to harm Laplace as well, albeit this can also be just limited to her strongest attack.
   1. Can you link the feat in the Light Novel because I want to verify?
5. Characters that are likely faster than Rimuru Tempest (Slime key), such as Hinata Sakaguchi (Sage key) should be At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher. Or something to that effect.
   1. I am not necessarily sure; Rimuru did later have a draw with her in alternative timeline rematch from his first key. I think the currently accepted speed rating work better.

Edit: The MTL volume was 13 not 12 [fixed].

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree with Elizhaa.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I mainly agree with Elizhaa as well, except I want bring up a few things.

I am kind of neutral. Charybdis is kind of mindless so it is not unfeasible that she wouldn't go all out from lack of intelligence.

It shouldn't have been mindless at the time since Phobio was still conscious and going after Milim. So its likely that it was doing everything it could to kill her.

I am not necessarily sure; Rimuru did later have a draw with her in alternative timeline rematch from his first key. I think the currently accepted speed rating work better.

That's likely because she didn't have Holy Field negging him at the time. cough More evidence for Hinata not really being relative to Demon Lord Rimuru. cough (just sayin')

 

[Metalballrun]

I am fine with the second and third option but I think it's more appropriate to use the 6-A option. I read ahead in the MTL volumes; in MTL volume 12, Carrera could destroy the entire Great Jura Forest with Gravity Collapse, nuclear strike magic. This feat would be a minimum of 6-A, going from the surface area of Great Jura Forest being larger than Leon's country. Great Jura Forest is referred to as the entire territory multiple times such as in the first Walpurgis where Rimuru got the entire territory; so I think it is the country. Other people powerscaled to her so I think the feat would be fine.

This CRT was originally gonna cover only up to Volume 11, but I agree that if we include the feats in future volumes then they would all be 6-A. I suppose it's decided now that we would go with a plain 6-A rating.

I think no. More properties of light would need to be shown or stated to prove the beam of light is lightspeed.

That's fair.

I am kind of neutral. Charybdis is kind of mindless so it is not unfeasible that she wouldn't go all out from lack of intelligence.

My issue is we need to identify whether Charybdis getting tagged very easily is only because of its large size or because it's slower. Maybe I'll drop this for now and just put its speed as Massively Hypersonic in general.

Can you link the feat in the Light Novel because I want to verify?

It's from V3 Chapter 5.

According to Treyni, even Aerial Blade—the strongest elemental magic spell she had at her disposal—was reduced to only about a tenth of its natural power. Far from the deciding blow it was meant to be. It did deal some damage, but as she put it, the wounds immediately healed themselves.

Aerial Blade is also what Treyni used against Laplace, which cut off his arm. Laplace only lost his arm because he had Anti-Magic skills and Stealth skills.

“Your judgment is here. May you pray for your ultimate forgiveness. Aerial Blade!"
The spiritual Unification meant Treyni no longer had need for long casting times. In an instant, Laplace was locked inside a gap in the air itself—one occupied solely by great blades of air that rent everything they slashed through. There was no escape once imprisoned. It was a fearsome move, and Laplace, if anything, weathered it well. His own intrinsic Anti-Magic skills let him escape mortal injury. All it managed to take from him was a single arm—and with a puff of smoke, the arm went into so-called Stealth Mode. This was an original skill, exclusive to Laplace, that combined illusory magic like Deception, Infiltration, and Concealment, and he was so deft at casting it that it even let him deceive the spiritual senses of a dryad.

So Charybdis was damaged by either a Mountain level+ character, or this feat above qualifies Treyni being Large Mountain level for harming Laplace.

I am not necessarily sure; Rimuru did later have a draw with her in alternative timeline rematch from his first key. I think the currently accepted speed rating work better.

I was basing it off the statements where Rimuru says he would've lost 9/10 times if they fought even without a Holy Field. Thought that makes sense I suppose. So Sage Hinata only remains as Massively Hypersonic then?

It shouldn't have been mindless at the time since Phobio was still conscious and going after Milim. So its likely that it was doing everything it could to kill her.

That's actually doubtful. Milim was within Charybdis's range the entire time and never really attacked her, at some point Milim was flying alongside Rimuru. It had Phobio's consciousness which wanted to kill Milim but for the most part Charybdis was mindless and acted out of instinct.

That's likely because she didn't have Holy Field negging him at the time. cough More evidence for Hinata not really being relative to Demon Lord Rimuru. cough (just sayin')

I'm quite sure the fight ended in a draw because the kids interfered and Hinata decided to hold back, and chances are she wasn't wearing the Holy Gears during this fight, hence didn't have the power of her Saint self.

 

[Community_Gamer]

That's actually doubtful. Milim was within Charybdis's range the entire time and never really attacked her, at some point Milim was flying alongside Rimuru. It had Phobio's consciousness which wanted to kill Milim but for the most part Charybdis was mindless and acted out of instinct.

Are we excluding anime or....?

I'm quite sure the fight ended in a draw because the kids interfered and Hinata decided to hold back, and chances are she wasn't wearing the Holy Gears during this fight, hence didn't have the power of her Saint self.

Yes, Chloe stepped in at some point but they were already relative. She's not a saint later anyway, and how do you know she wasn't wearing her armor? And Rimuru wasn't trying to kill her either. He could just use Gluttony to predate her but he wouldn't.

But I've made it plenty clear before my problems with Hinata.

 

[Metalballrun]

Are we excluding anime or....?

Even in the anime, Milim was literally just asleep under a tree the whole time. More than likely Charybdis was just tracking Milim's signature energy.

Yes, Chloe stepped in at some point but they were already relative. She's not a saint later anyway, and how do you know she wasn't wearing her armor? And Rimuru wasn't trying to kill her either. He could just use Gluttony to predate her but he wouldn't.

It's pretty clear that the fight was inconclusive because of Chloe.

According to Chloe, in that timeline, Hinata and Rimuru’s duel ended in a draw. It was due to the children’s involvement—especially Chloe, that Hinata stopped.
“Hinata said that she would ‘observe a bit more’ and made peace with Rimuru-san.”
At the time, Hinata had likely found that the whole thing was strange, so she began to investigate by herself. Her investigation revealed that the Farmus Kingdom was behind all this, and that was when she decided to believe in Rimuru.

Hinata never fought Rimuru in Ingracia, and Rimuru never evolved into an Awakened Demon Lord, meaning Hinata never had the reason to be as wary as she was when he did become one, hence it's highly probable that this fight was just Sage Hinata vs Demon Lord Breed Rimuru, and its results would be consistent with both of their own assessment with each other (Rimuru thinks he'd lose 9/10 times) and both of them were likely not trying to kill each other either.
Furthermore, unless we're gonna assume that our speed ratings for Hinata is flawed, we currently would rate her as MHS as a Sage, and Relativistic+ as a Saint/with her Holy Gear. If she was a Saint then she would've easily defeated Rimuru via speed alone since Rimuru never got that sweet Maou powerup.
Also, I'm quite sure Hinata's holy magic would likely work against Gluttony regardless.

 

[Elizhaa]

This CRT was originally gonna cover only up to Volume 11, but I agree that if we include the feats in future volumes then they would all be 6-A. I suppose it's decided now that we would go with a plain 6-A rating.

I think it is fine to do so if the evidence related to the current volumes; in the last thread, evidence from later volumes were used for US resistance.


I am kind of neutral on the lower durability point. I am not sure the multipliers are completely legit. On Treyni's points, I would not mind upgrading to High 7-A for damaging those characters, giving the evidence. Treyni did manage to cut off Laplace's arm and it was stated that she should have been taking care of the orc lord but she chose to focused her role as the warden of the forest and was trying to be on guard for the masterminds behind the event.

I was basing it off the statements where Rimuru says he would've lost 9/10 times if they fought even without a Holy Field. Thought that makes sense I suppose. So Sage Hinata only remains as Massively Hypersonic then?

1. Yes, this option is fine.

 

[Metalballrun]

I am kind of neutral on the lower durability point. I am not sure the multipliers are completely legit. On Treyni's points, I would not mind upgrading to High 7-A for damaging those characters, giving the evidence. Treyni did manage to cut off Laplace's arm and it was stated that she should have been taking care of the orc lord but she chose to focused her role as the warden of the forest and was trying to be on guard for the masterminds behind the event.

With the statements also showing that she was holding back against Laplace, and I believe most are neutral here with Charybdis, I think it's fine to leave Charybdis's durability to Large Mountain level and upgrade Treyni's first key into Large Mountain level+ as well since that's what Laplace's durability is rated as, or perhaps just Large Mountain level.

I think others either agree or neutral with the rest, so are the changes allowed to be applied to the profiles now?

 

[Community_Gamer]

I don't see a reason to prolong the thread by breaking down all my issues with the scaling, so I'll just drop the point.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think others either agree or neutral with the rest, so are the changes allowed to be applied to the profiles now?

Yes.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Will Charbydis be 6-C?

Also, Diablo's first key should be 6-C, too.

 

[Metalballrun]

Will Charbydis be 6-C?

Also, Diablo's first key should be 6-C, too.

Yes for Charybdis's AP since she's comparable to Rimuru who stated her attacks could turn everyone present to mincemeat.
What justification should we put for Diablo's first key to be 6-C?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yes for Charybdis's AP since she's comparable to Rimuru who stated her attacks could turn everyone present to mincemeat.
What justification should we put for Diablo's first key to be 6-C?

Isn't his current justification, being similar to Rimuru's, be fine? I also believe there are statements of him being worried about him betraying him.

In fact, shouldn't everyone superior to Beretta be 6-C?

Also, if Razul has more magicules than Shion and Diablo combined, where was it stated he could defeat him?

 

[Metalballrun]

Isn't his current justification, being similar to Rimuru's, be fine? I also believe there are statements of him being worried about him betraying him.

In fact, shouldn't everyone superior to Beretta be 6-C?

Also, if Razul has more magicules than Shion and Diablo combined, where was it stated he could defeat him?

That's for Diablo's second key, not his first key.
Beretta is only vaguely stronger than Orc Disaster Geld via scaling, so not everyone who is stronger than him would be 6-C. They must be at least 3x stronger.
I believe it was during the fight against Rain where Diablo has said that he can defeat Razul, albeit he has already admitted that taking on Razul would be difficult.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That's for Diablo's second key, not his first key.
Beretta is only vaguely stronger than Orc Disaster Geld via scaling, so not everyone who is stronger than him would be 6-C. They must be at least 3x stronger.
I believe it was during the fight against Rain where Diablo has said that he can defeat Razul, albeit he has already admitted that taking on Razul would be difficult.

Then Diablo should be 6-C, being comparable if not superior to Benimaru, who oneshot Charibdys.

 

[Metalballrun]

I'm not really sure if we have any reason to scale Arch Demon Diablo to Oni Benimaru. In this key Diablo's best feats were defeating Razen and Orthos which are only on Hakuro's/Orc Disaster's level.
I'll continue editing much later so I won't be able to heck until much later.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'm not really sure if we have any reason to scale Arch Demon Diablo to Oni Benimaru. In this key Diablo's best feats were defeating Razen and Orthos which are only on Hakuro's/Orc Disaster's level.
I'll continue editing much later so I won't be able

Fairly certain that Rimuru was worried of him.

 

[Metalballrun]

I did a quick CTRL+F skim of volume 5 and found these facts:

• Noir effortlessly stomped Razen.
• Gruecith said he felt an overwhelming sense of awe from Noir similar or greater than Benimaru (Kijin) and the Lycanthropeers.
• Rimuru says Benimaru might have trouble handling Noir if he goes berserk. However, Rimuru never comments on Benimaru's current strength in this volume (or at least I can't find it), so I'm unsure whether he's referring to his Kijin or Oni key. It's fair to say Diablo is 6-C if we assume Rimuru's referring to the latter.
  

 

[Elizhaa]

With the statements also showing that she was holding back against Laplace, and I believe most are neutral here with Charybdis, I think it's fine to leave Charybdis's durability to Large Mountain level and upgrade Treyni's first key into Large Mountain level+ as well since that's what Laplace's durability is rated as, or perhaps just Large Mountain level+

• Sorry, I forgot to comment on this point; Treyni cut off Laplace's arm and it was stated she could have killed him; her tier would be High 7-A+ at base yes. It should make her next tier 6-C, going from this point.

 

[Elizhaa]

Rimuru says Benimaru might have trouble handling Noir if he goes berserk. However, Rimuru never comments on Benimaru's current strength in this volume (or at least I can't find it), so I'm unsure whether he's referring to his Kijin or Oni key. It's fair to say Diablo is 6-C if we assume Rimuru's referring to the latter.

• Can you post the feat's scan or quote? Also, if the quote is after the Harvest Festival where Benimaru evolved [Oni key] and about Noir before he evolved, Diablo would probably be 6-C.

 

[Elizhaa]

Can you post the feat's scan or quote? Also, if the quote is after the Harvest Festival where Benimaru evolved [Oni key] and about Noir before he evolved, Diablo would probably be 6-C.

• Nevermind on the scan as I found it; it seems exactly the case that I mentioned (Volume 5 Chapter 5). Benimaru had already evolved; he even met Rimuru so Rimuru should be knowledgeable on his strength. Rimuru made the comment about Noir's strength after the meeting and before Noir evolved. So, 6-C is fine, to me.