tSSDK God tiers regen revisions

[Promestein]

I don't exactly think it's inconsistent but whatever.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Well, is there any other showing/statement of this? If not, then it can just be treated as an outlier.

 

[Makenai]

I don't exactly think it's inconsistent but whatever.

I hope this is not an inconsistency too. But the way you guys treated it is no fair at all.

Because if you guys think information particles is physical, you're giving a middle finger to the entire setting of this entire series, everything that has been described as non-physical would be a false information, everything, since information particles is what made everything.

what make this very unfair is that because rather than treating information particles as metaphysical particles that have 1 physical property, they're treated as physical object with non-physical traits just because it have 1 physical property.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's what they've been trying to say.

Qliphoth is saying what they've been saying with slightly different wording, it's a 1 time statement that's inconsistent with everything else. Why take that inconsistency to downgrade an entire verse?

I still disagree with this line of reasoning. It would be inconsistent if the verse actively went over how they lacked physicality, but thus far I'm not seeing that.

 

[Alphaapexnep00]

I still disagree with this line of reasoning. It would be inconsistent if the verse actively went over how they lacked physicality, but thus far I'm not seeing that.

What? How is a word/statement that literally breaks the lore and everything that as been established not inconsistent?.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What? How is a word/statement that literally breaks the lore and everything that as been established not inconsistent?.

I've not been shown evidence of it breaking the lore. I've been told it does, I've been shown that people believe information having mass is preposterous and thus breaks the lore, but I've not actually been shown contradictory evidence.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok, so you're asking for multiple scans that show otherwise?

If the TenSura supporter's claims are true, then that should be achievable.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Give us some time, notifications died.

 

[Metalballrun]

This is as far as I can go since I won't really have time for the rest of the week.

A quick description of the Slime World/Cardinal World as described by Yuuki is that it's a semi-spiritual world that shares spiritual and physical properties. In comparison to Rimuru's former world (universe where IRL Earth resides) which is a purely physical one, and the purely spiritual world which is the complete opposite of a physical world. I.e. not physical.

Souls are normally detached from the world and is different from the physical body which is directly connected to the world.
The soul is a consciousness, the astral form essentially allows thought process, and the spiritual form allows them to be recorded. The material, physical body is a permanent storage of memories.

Examples of spirits lacking physicality are: Charybdis, a spiritual life-form, needs a body to interact with the world. Ifrit, an elemental, immune from physical attacks. Dryads have no weight or physical presence at all, the only corporeal parts of them are the great trees where their soul resides, and when they use magic to make themselves corporeal/interact with physical things. These are just among many other examples, like Rimuru needing Nonphysical Interaction to kill a lesser demon.

I'm sure others have more scans. If these things aren't enough for you guys, then it is what it is.

 

[Worthless]

Aren't y'all talking about Information particles? Tho i beginning to agree that information particles should just high in LN, seems exaggerated. Doesn't matter anyway even without those he still mid-godly. LN informations particles isn't potent like on WN version, imo.


Nvm. I take my word back. it seems it's just the same, as the WN. it just i don't see any feats from LN that soul is included in that information particles so i thought....

“ The information etched in the soul is the source of the exercise of power.
Is that information engraved directly on the energy?—It’s not.
First there is a self with an indeterminate wavelength, and a collection of "information fragments" envelops these - the core. All the information is carved into it. „ - vol.13

 

[Antvasima]

I still trust the judgements of Bambu and Promestein.

 

[God900]

I still trust the judgements of Bambu and Promestein.

Metalballrun already gave some scans and examples proving otherwise.

As many people have said multiple times, it is a incosistency that literally break the Verse settings.
There is no point trying to refute this...

 

[Axxtentacle]

Well, Bambu’s judgement was for people to prove it’s a contradiction. The scans have been brought, if he still has an issue, then he can mention it. Till then, his requirement has been fulfilled.

 

[Promestein]

This is as far as I can go since I won't really have time for the rest of the week.

A quick description of the Slime World/Cardinal World as described by Yuuki is that it's a semi-spiritual world that shares spiritual and physical properties. In comparison to Rimuru's former world (universe where IRL Earth resides) which is a purely physical one, and the purely spiritual world which is the complete opposite of a physical world. I.e. not physical.

Souls are normally detached from the world and is different from the physical body which is directly connected to the world.
The soul is a consciousness, the astral form essentially allows thought process, and the spiritual form allows them to be recorded. The material, physical body is a permanent storage of memories.

Examples of spirits lacking physicality are: Charybdis, a spiritual life-form, needs a body to interact with the world. Ifrit, an elemental, immune from physical attacks. Dryads have no weight or physical presence at all, the only corporeal parts of them are the great trees where their soul resides, and when they use magic to make themselves corporeal/interact with physical things. These are just among many other examples, like Rimuru needing Nonphysical Interaction to kill a lesser demon.

I'm sure others have more scans. If these things aren't enough for you guys, then it is what it is.

The dryad one's the only one that really works for me so whatever, I still don't think the rest necessarily contradict it

 

[Axxtentacle]

Mind showing us the Rimuru needing non-physical interaction to kill a lesser demon part? 2 acceptable pieces of evidence > 1, so.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Mind showing us the Rimuru needing non-physical interaction to kill a lesser demon part? 2 acceptable pieces of evidence > 1, so.

Here. The Lesser Demon is stated to be made of magicules, and Magic is quite literally the shape of whatever you wish it to be.

Chaos Eater is stated to attack your physical and spiritual body, and Shogo has the same regeneration as Pre-Demon Lord Rimuru, High, yet cannot do anything about regenerating his spiritual body.

This explains the three main bodies of TenSura, soul, spirit, and physical, and it is directly stated that the material (physical) body is the only one with a solid connection to the physical world. High-Elementals are just pure energy, which is why Rimuru needed Magic Aura to hurt the Lesser Demon, and Magic to hurt Ifrit, who’s stated to be immune to physical attacks being a spiritual lifeform.

 

[Makenai]

The dryad one's the only one that really works for me so whatever, I still don't think the rest necessarily contradict it

What? So, you're ignoring every blatant statement and feats regarding non-physicality?

While its true that doesn't necessarily contradict it but that doesn't mean it was physical, it just mean metaphysical with 1 physical property.

At this point you look like that biased Maou Gakuin supporter who purposely trying to downgrade the entire verse. It's fiction so metaphysical having mass is not impossible at all so that a one time statement is nothing more than a vague statement that could just mean a metaphysical object with mass. But if you're saying otherwise then all those blatant statement that describing non-physicality is all wrong.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Wouldn’t say that much, but alright.

 

[Alphaapexnep00]

Calm down it's not that much of a big deal.

 

[Promestein]

Chillax, dude, pretty much the only knowledge I have on this verse is what's been offered to me in these two threads, and in the comment you're quoting I had just backed off and accepted the arguments of people who know it better. All I did was subject it to a lot of scrutiny, which is what I generally try to do, especially when big upgrades are shoved my way.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Hey, I was out, 'pologies for late responses.

I'm iffy on a lot of these scans actually disproving the whole "information particles have very minute amounts of mass" side of things, but if the dryad scan is good enough for Prom, I'll drop out.

 

[Makenai]

Chillax, dude, pretty much the only knowledge I have on this verse is what's been offered to me in these two threads, and in the comment you're quoting I had just backed off and accepted the arguments of people who know it better. All I did was subject it to a lot of scrutiny, which is what I generally try to do, especially when big upgrades are shoved my way.

Sorry, i don't mean to be aggressive, just speaking what's in my mind.

 

[Metalballrun]

The dryad one's the only one that really works for me so whatever, I still don't think the rest necessarily contradict it

The souls being consciousness and the tidbit about the cosmology is bigger evidences IMO, but whatever, it's all the same since Dryads

All I did was subject it to a lot of scrutiny, which is what I generally try to do, especially when big upgrades are shoved my way.

That's fair and all, but I'm actually arguing to downgrade the LN Profiles from High-Godly to Mid-Godly (for Diablo) and Low-Godly (for Rimuru) since that's what I think makes the most sense.

 

[Alphaapexnep00]

The souls being consciousness and the tidbit about the cosmology is bigger evidences IMO, but whatever, it's all the same since Dryads

That's fair and all, but I'm actually arguing to downgrade the LN Profiles from High-Godly to Mid-Godly (for Diablo) and Low-Godly (for Rimuru) since that's what I think makes the most sense.

Not sure about low godly since it was stated to erase the soul and everything even information.

 

[Metalballrun]

We haven't seen or it hasn't been described to us that Rimuru can survive getting his soul/entire existence destroyed, yet. He was able to block Melt Slash with Beelzebub. At most it's an advanced form of Low Godly since he can regenerate his physical and spiritual body from the soul.
Primordial Demons and True Dragons have both been described to be able to and actually did regenerate after complete destruction.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I still think it should it at least be Mid-Godly, as it’s intrinsic, unlike other users of Endless Regeneration and simply inscribed in their soul, and a part of his existence.

 

[Worthless]

Melt slash... Again, that thing can destroy physical & soul and even information particles leaving nothing behind. in volume 13 it stated that You can revived someone physical body (YES, body included) and soul through information particles. So yeah rimuru could regenerate from Physical-to Soul destruction through information particles the one who'll handle it probably ciel a conceptual entity. (Alsooo yeah rimuru can regenerate from information particles destruction soo yeah it's HG regeneration)

 

[Makenai]

We haven't seen or it hasn't been described to us that Rimuru can survive getting his soul/entire existence destroyed, yet. He was able to block Melt Slash with Beelzebub. At most it's an advanced form of Low Godly since he can regenerate his physical and spiritual body from the soul.
Primordial Demons and True Dragons have both been described to be able to and actually did regenerate after complete destruction.

But Melt Slash is destroying soul too and i don't think Rimuru resist Melt Slash if he have to regenerate from it in the first place. Rain even said it was very dangerous even for Primordial Demons

And yeah, Intrisinc skill is part of physiology i guess. Just like how Primordial can still retain their memory despite their soul (conciousness and memory) is being destroyed.

 

[Makenai]

So far there's no counter feat that showing otherwise for Rimuru who is stated can regenerate from Melt Slash and it also not an outlier since Primordials and True Dragons can do the same.

 

[Worthless]

Yeah. Inherent/intrinsic skill is a part of the physical body, destroying their physical body is the same as destroying their inherent/intrinsic skill, since it's literally part of their BODY while destroying Soul is like the same as destroying unique and ultimate skill since it's literally part of their soul:

“ The skills acquired at the limit of physical training are not carved into the "soul" but are attached to the body. This is especially true for skills gained from magical creatures, which can be gained by simply eating the opponent.
This skill is known as an inherent skill of the race, and if the same race holds such a skill, then future generations can also inherit it.
Skills acquired through cultivation often only reach the level of extra skills. The point is that after that, it's still relatively useful to weave original techniques by increasing proficiency or fusing with sword skills. „ - vol.16

Rimuru with Infinite regeneration can create a physical and soul (Including skills since skills are literally part of the physical and soul of a person)

I know people already show the feats that unique and ultimate are engraved to mind/astral/soul but... here a recent feats in volume 18:

“ According to Ciel-san, there are cases where Unique Skill is rooted in the mind, cases where it is engraved in the soul, and cases where it resides in the astral body, spiritual body, or material body. There is also the power to steal Skill from enemies, but it seems that this is only possible if it is in the body. As an exception, it seems that there are Skills that reside in the soul, and in such cases, they can be taken away. In other words, is it harder to take something that's engraved in your soul? „

 

[Metalballrun]

There are no High-Godly in the LN. The WN is different. We haven't confirmed the composition of Divine Spirits in the LN yet and a separate conceptual/information existence separate from the rest.

Like I said, unless you can check the raws for an otherwise different description, what we've seen describing Rimuru is still Low-Godly. The point is that there is no description (yet) that Rimuru could've come back from getting his soul destroyed.

I also don't think we can scale Rimuru to Primordials and True Dragons, either. Rimuru scales to them when he becomes Ultimate Slime.

 

[Worthless]

That's literally saying Melt-slash can't destroy a soul. And You don't always need a literal statement that someone could comeback from a soul destruction right? as long as they could comeback from an attack that could destroy even a soul, then that's treated as Mid-godly right? In rimuru case he can regenerate from melt-slash that can erase, destroy soul. So even without that information he still mid-godly.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

There are no High-Godly in the LN. The WN is different. We haven't confirmed the composition of Divine Spirits in the LN yet and a separate conceptual/information existence separate from the rest.

Bit confused through, we know MS targets Cells, Souls, and Info. It destroyed the latter portion, but it’s directly stated that Rimuru would regenerate it because ER had stopped being a skill, but an intrinsic part of his existence. Like how Spiritual Lifeforms naturally regenerate.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's literally saying Melt-slash can't destroy a soul. And You don't always need a literal statement that someone could comeback from a soul destruction right? as long as they could comeback from an attack that could destroy even a soul, then that's treated as Mid-godly right? In rimuru case he can regenerate from melt-slash that can erase, destroy soul. So even without that information he still mid-godly.

It would have to actually destroy mind-body-soul, but otherwise yes.

 

[Alphaapexnep00]

It would have to actually destroy mind-body-soul, but otherwise yes.

It erases every thing from cells to soul to existence and information.

 

[Worthless]

It would have to actually destroy mind-body-soul, but otherwise yes.

Yeah it erase body cell to soul (Mind/consiousnes are part of the soul)

 

[Metalballrun]

I'm still iffy on Rimuru having Mid-Godly, but I'd rather hear Elizhaa's or others' opinion on it. I'm neutral to that for now.

I'm adamant that there is no solid proof of High-Godly yet in the LN however, though I think that has been made clear already.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I personally disagree on it.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

At this point you look like that biased Maou Gakuin supporter who purposely trying to downgrade the entire verse.

There is no need for such hostility, really.

 

[Makenai]

There is no need for such hostility, really.

I have made clear that i don't mean to aggressive and already apologize for it, so drop it.

I'm still iffy on Rimuru having Mid-Godly, but I'd rather hear Elizhaa's or others' opinion on it. I'm neutral to that for now.

So far there's no counter feat for the statement regarding Rimuru could regenerate from Melt Slash.