-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
True Godly Regenerationn
- Thread starter Sera_EX
- Start date
-
- Tags
- immortality regeneration
- 301
- 16
So if a character does something that destroys everything including themself and still comes back from it in the plane of nothingness. Are they high godly or true godly
This is just a random question and is not related to any characters
I'm having difficulty distingushing between the two
This is just a random question and is not related to any characters
I'm having difficulty distingushing between the two
- 301
- 16
Ok got it
- 167,703
- 76,308
Here is DarkLK's reply:
"All I can say about Regenerationn. Regenerationn after erasing the existence of means that a character regenerate from some backup. Various types of high Regenerationn just depends on how hard to destroy this backup. It may be associated with the three-dimensional reality, or with some higher dimensional abstract matrix or with something dimensionless.
The highest type of Regenerationn on ACF refers to the dimensional beings who are regenerate from dimensionless backup. Or to dimensionless beings, who are regenerate from dimensionless backup that is even more abstract than their bodies."
"All I can say about Regenerationn. Regenerationn after erasing the existence of means that a character regenerate from some backup. Various types of high Regenerationn just depends on how hard to destroy this backup. It may be associated with the three-dimensional reality, or with some higher dimensional abstract matrix or with something dimensionless.
The highest type of Regenerationn on ACF refers to the dimensional beings who are regenerate from dimensionless backup. Or to dimensionless beings, who are regenerate from dimensionless backup that is even more abstract than their bodies."
- 1,677
- 114
...Hence, they are immortal because they are reliant on their true selves or in the case of a conceptual being, reliant on their concepts to survive. It's as obvious as it gets. They even use similar reasoning.
No. Difference is a simple:
Type 8 - your concept is related with your world.
Type 9 - your concept is not related with your world.
So, type 8 can be killed by destroying its world.
And, type 9 cannot be killed by destroying its world.
Moreover, souls/devils/etc from Notch (for example) not even a concept.
No. Difference is a simple:
Type 8 - your concept is related with your world.
Type 9 - your concept is not related with your world.
So, type 8 can be killed by destroying its world.
And, type 9 cannot be killed by destroying its world.
Moreover, souls/devils/etc from Notch (for example) not even a concept.
- 1,092
- 919
True godly is basically Regenerationn from the most primary level of destruction. In Demonbane, Nyarlathotep regenerated even after being oblitered by Elder God Demonbane more than four hundren million times. Perhaps, the only way Nya can truly die is if Azathoth awakens to which then, she can't regenerate or obviously she may be erased by Yog-Sothoth, a more abstract, more primary being so I'm sorry but NLF does not apply here, and claiming something is NLF when it comes to higher tiers is fallaicious in itslef. If a character displays this type of Regenerationn regardless of tier, they have it fairly, if it is portrayed consistently.
I'm sorry but bringing up multi-valued logic also does not change how this transduality works. I say this because this is a concept, in which how it is used, mirrors the context of nondualism in metaphysics and/or spiritual/religious practice. That is normally how it is used in fiction. This version of transdualism applies to the underlying changing reality or ultimate unchanging reality found in Buddhism or Hinduism (Brahman, Anatma) basically concepts that involve nonduality that cannot be expressed in human terms.
Using the Cthulhu Mythos as an example, you have such a cosmology:
1. Three dimensional reality with humans
2. Endless chain of dimensions
3. Dimensionless space
4. Ultimate Void of the Outer Gods
5. Yog-Sothoth (all existence and nonexistence, Yog is a nondual entity and nonduality is a lowly concept to Yog)
6. Nyog Sothep and Magnum Tenebrosum (an even more primary existence and absolute nonexistence. Both can either be a more primary version of Yog or even more abstract)
7. Azathoth (after waking up/dismantling the illusion, because Azathoth dreamt up some tranacendent existence and nonexistence or two beings who are likely beyond such concepts, and the omniscient totality known as Yog-Sothoth, it must be the absolute primary "existence").
True Godly regen is where you can regenerate from either 5 or 6 (6 being a very rare or extreme case) while High Godly regen is where you can only regenerate from 3 or 4. You will generally see true godly regen in works that have a composite hierarchy, as a standard hierarchy of only dimensional space and then dimensionless space is not enough in most cases.
That's basically, the difference between the two.
I'm sorry but bringing up multi-valued logic also does not change how this transduality works. I say this because this is a concept, in which how it is used, mirrors the context of nondualism in metaphysics and/or spiritual/religious practice. That is normally how it is used in fiction. This version of transdualism applies to the underlying changing reality or ultimate unchanging reality found in Buddhism or Hinduism (Brahman, Anatma) basically concepts that involve nonduality that cannot be expressed in human terms.
Using the Cthulhu Mythos as an example, you have such a cosmology:
1. Three dimensional reality with humans
2. Endless chain of dimensions
3. Dimensionless space
4. Ultimate Void of the Outer Gods
5. Yog-Sothoth (all existence and nonexistence, Yog is a nondual entity and nonduality is a lowly concept to Yog)
6. Nyog Sothep and Magnum Tenebrosum (an even more primary existence and absolute nonexistence. Both can either be a more primary version of Yog or even more abstract)
7. Azathoth (after waking up/dismantling the illusion, because Azathoth dreamt up some tranacendent existence and nonexistence or two beings who are likely beyond such concepts, and the omniscient totality known as Yog-Sothoth, it must be the absolute primary "existence").
True Godly regen is where you can regenerate from either 5 or 6 (6 being a very rare or extreme case) while High Godly regen is where you can only regenerate from 3 or 4. You will generally see true godly regen in works that have a composite hierarchy, as a standard hierarchy of only dimensional space and then dimensionless space is not enough in most cases.
That's basically, the difference between the two.
- 8,998
- 2,927
@A6colute As I've made pretty clear with Sera...
1. I gave my view on the matter and explained it.
2. I find both sides of the debate reasonable enough that either can work so I'll go with the majority once this gets settled.
...Not seeing any point in keeping up this discussion with you, I'll say a simple "Sure" rather than dragging this on forever.
1. I gave my view on the matter and explained it.
2. I find both sides of the debate reasonable enough that either can work so I'll go with the majority once this gets settled.
...Not seeing any point in keeping up this discussion with you, I'll say a simple "Sure" rather than dragging this on forever.
- 15,614
- 7,054
So are we going through with this? If so, should I go ahead and add this to all Outer Gods? Because according to TtGotSK, they aren't bound by the duality of "substance and reality"/existence and "shadow and illusion"/nonexistence, along with being beyond perspective and viewing all there is as its unchanging whole.
- 15,614
- 7,054
Alright. I will add it, then.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Added it to the Vertigo Characters.
Only 1-As have this, right?
Only 1-As have this, right?
- 11,582
- 549
Hmmm....seeing that we're gonna be keeping this around, do the Gods of Shinza Bansho qualify for this? If so, i can add them in then.
- 11,582
- 549
Cool.
Edit: Should i do something about their immortality too since they have True Godly here or...?
Edit: Should i do something about their immortality too since they have True Godly here or...?
- 15,614
- 7,054
@Everyone
Is this just something we apply to every 1-A or? Because I don't know if it should be applied to stuff like the "Elder Gods" or not.
Is this just something we apply to every 1-A or? Because I don't know if it should be applied to stuff like the "Elder Gods" or not.
- 32,359
- 20,298
The Elder Gods definitly don't have this.
- 1,092
- 919
Nah. Only specific 1-A characters are those who have displayed this (like Lambda). Being beyond the concepts of space and time puts you above all reality and thus grant high godly regen. But to he capable of regenerating the outerverse's demise is true godly.
- 15,614
- 7,054
So should we make sure 1-A characters who have been "killed" don't get this? For instance, Hypnos existed well beyond all time, space, dimensions, and the universe of dreams, but the Outer Gods still "killed" him.
This is assuming the "killing" is not done by a High 1-A or 0, of course. Like when Featherine got rid of Lambda.
This is assuming the "killing" is not done by a High 1-A or 0, of course. Like when Featherine got rid of Lambda.
- 32,359
- 20,298
I agree with Azzy. The 1-As need to display Regenerationn and not be killed.
- 6,104
- 5,106
- Thread starter
- #142
@Cross they should have meta-immortality
@Azzy, Lambda wasn't actually dead as far as I know. She likely was regenerating from the Sea of Oblivion. Umineko witches don't really die. Even still I'm not saying Featherine couldn't completely destroy Lambda if she wanted.
@Azzy, Lambda wasn't actually dead as far as I know. She likely was regenerating from the Sea of Oblivion. Umineko witches don't really die. Even still I'm not saying Featherine couldn't completely destroy Lambda if she wanted.
- 11,582
- 549
So beings like the Shinza Gods don't apply then, right?
@Sera: Got it. But do the other types of Immortality like Type 4 get taken off or can they stay?
@Sera: Got it. But do the other types of Immortality like Type 4 get taken off or can they stay?
- 15,614
- 7,054
@Sera
I thought Lambda was saved by Bern? Though it's been a while so my memory is foggy.
Anyway, what about everyone who was/could've been killed by Hajun, for example?
I thought Lambda was saved by Bern? Though it's been a while so my memory is foggy.
Anyway, what about everyone who was/could've been killed by Hajun, for example?
- 32,359
- 20,298
That's the whole setting, Azzy.
- 15,614
- 7,054
I know, considering Hajun's power is kinda to end everything but himself.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 15,614
- 7,054
@Sera
Would they then in that case be "At least High-Godly" or something to that effect, if they didn't have True-Godly?
Would they then in that case be "At least High-Godly" or something to that effect, if they didn't have True-Godly?
- 11,582
- 549
Azzy's not wrong on that. Hajun's whole shitick is to really end everyone and everything that's but himself. And Marie, Reinhard, and Mercury dying by his hands are of a good example on that.
I'll refrain from editing anymore of the Masada pages til then so i know if they still apply or not for here.
I'll refrain from editing anymore of the Masada pages til then so i know if they still apply or not for here.
- 167,703
- 76,308
I also do not think that Lucifer, Michael, the Presence, Ellaine, and the Source have demonstrated true godly Regenerationn, so I consider it inappropriate if it has been added to all Vertigo 1-As.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Fine, changing it back to High-Godly.
- 32,359
- 20,298
But I don't even understand the purpose and functionality of True-Godly. Previously they were saying it applied to all 1-As, now only a few. I honestly can't see any difference between it and High-Godly. It just seems to be a made-up term to present the High-Godly Regenerationn of notably High-Level beings as impressive.
I also don't like the "Meta-Immortality" thing. Both terms seem redundant and only clutter things up, in my opinion.
Edit: Nevermind, I think Meta-Immortality seems fine. But I don't like True-Godly Regen.
I also don't like the "Meta-Immortality" thing. Both terms seem redundant and only clutter things up, in my opinion.
Edit: Nevermind, I think Meta-Immortality seems fine. But I don't like True-Godly Regen.
- 167,703
- 76,308
Well, true godly is for fictions that deal with the concept of regenerating from being erased from both existence and nonexistence.
However, I agree that we likely need a better clarification in the Regenerationn page regarding why some 1-A characters qualify, whereas others do not.
However, I agree that we likely need a better clarification in the Regenerationn page regarding why some 1-A characters qualify, whereas others do not.
- 11,582
- 549
I agree too. Meta Immortality can work for those like say, the Masadaverse god tiers. But them having something True Godly may not apply as much towards them given the fact that Hajun killed 3 other gods and none of them really came back from nothingness. Apologies if I keep mentioning said verse.
Anyways, I can see True Godly being used for those like the gods from the Mythos series. Can't say on the D.C./Vertigo ones (same can be said for all other 1-A and above related verses) and, unless Ventus can work it out and explain to me here later, I am uncertain if not really don't feel right enough if the Masada gods can have this.
So a better clarification may be in need then.
Anyways, I can see True Godly being used for those like the gods from the Mythos series. Can't say on the D.C./Vertigo ones (same can be said for all other 1-A and above related verses) and, unless Ventus can work it out and explain to me here later, I am uncertain if not really don't feel right enough if the Masada gods can have this.
So a better clarification may be in need then.
- 32,359
- 20,298
The problem is, regenerating from being erased from existence and nonexistence is within the range of High-Godly.
- 167,703
- 76,308
Well, I wrote a distinction between the two concepts in the Regenerationn page.
- 6,104
- 5,106
- Thread starter
- #160
High-Godly: Able to regenerate even if your existence is erased and the reality you are within is destroyed.
That does not say anyting about existence or nonexistence and being erased from duality should stop high godly. Refer to Ven's reply above explaining the difference.
That does not say anyting about existence or nonexistence and being erased from duality should stop high godly. Refer to Ven's reply above explaining the difference.
